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Mikey P 12:51 Wed Jan 7
Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Here we go again...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

SHORTYHAMMER 1:15 Fri Feb 27
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
balders 8:14 Thu Feb 26


Goverments and councils have never had the nuts to deal with the "enemy within" ..

Just look at Rotherham etc..Even if our kids were getting abused

cholo 7:32 Fri Feb 27
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
To say people's beliefs don't inform their actions is absurd.
Beliefs don't exist in a bubble, they manifest in people's actions and have consequences, some good, some horrific.

Hermit Road 6:40 Fri Feb 27
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
I'm not sure that the Saudis are in a position to condemn IS, they are about to behead a man for ripping up a Koran. They regularly flog people, and the use of public beheadings and stonings are a part of their statutory punishments.

Coffee 6:01 Fri Feb 27
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
That's an interesting article, Darby. Thanks for posting.

Darby_ 5:14 Fri Feb 27
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Interesting sounding anti-ISIS conference in Mecca:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/ISIS-summit-Islam-Obama/386303/

"At other times, though, speakers asserted that ISIS could not be disassociated from Islam. After discounting poverty, social marginalization, and incarceration as the primary causes of radicalization, al-Tayeb said that in his opinion, “the most prominent" source of radicalization among Muslims is the "historical accumulations of extremism and militancy in our heritage.” Abdullah bin Abdelmohsin al-Turki, secretary-general of the Muslim World League, was even blunter: “The terrorism that we face within the Muslim Ummah and our own homelands today … is religiously motivated. It has been founded on extremism, and the misconception of some distorted Sharia concept.” King Salman’s speech referred to the phenomenon of “Islamized terrorism,” and the program for the conference explicitly stated that “our own children” are responsible for extremist violence."

Islam certainly has a problem with extremism at the moment, in the same way as, say, Germany had a problem with nationalism 70 years ago.

balders 10:21 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Just to prove a point non - eu immigration up again. Bet the checks were rigours

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/26/migration-figures-expected-to-shatter-camerons-tens-of-thousands-pledge

balders 10:18 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
It was during Thatcher's time it started , the Yanks and French called London, Londonaba as we had so many Islamic terrorist here

Blair made it 100 times worse , but definitely the great Maggie started it , liberal old bint

After8 8:46 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
And Richard the Lionheart.

Coffee 8:21 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
balders 8:14 Thu Feb 26

You forgot Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, Chamberlain, Churchill, Pitt the Younger and Disraeli.

Coffee 8:18 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Hermit Road 8:11 Thu Feb 26

Diabetes has become a major threat. That's ingenuity for you.

balders 8:14 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
No government has the bollocks to do fuck all about it

Thanks Thatcher Major Blair and Cameron

Hermit Road 8:11 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
It's a bit weird watching gph clutching at every straw he can to defend Islam, whilst using the other hand to simultaneously grab for straws to criticise Christianity. I presume this is dissonance is a compulsion of people of 'the left'. 'It's not the bomb-clad jihadists we need to worry about, it's the old ladies baking overly-sweet buns for the church cake sale that are the real threat.'.

After8 7:37 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Even 5% is 5% too high.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 1:03 Thu Feb 26
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
gph 7:50 Wed Feb 25

'So there is only evidence that they sympathise with the motives, and nothing more.'

No. The same report found that 24% thought attacks based on making images of the prophet were justified.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Staffs-Hammer 8:39 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Interesting article from the Independent (yes.. I know, but just read it...). Not entirely sure I agree with thew last paragraph but it is written from the perspective of a British Muslim.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-the-survey-of-british-muslim-attitudes-is-so-profoundly-disconcerting-10070358.html

How do you react to the news – the result of a major BBC survey - that 11 per cent of British Muslims sympathise with fighting against the West? That 20 per cent of them believe Western liberal society can never be compatible with Islam? That 11 per cent feel that organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammed deserve to be attacked?
I find these numbers profoundly disconcerting. But they are far from surprising.

For years, Islamists and other extremists have taken advantage of grievances of Muslims in Britain, and have successfully identified ways to integrate them under one “Islamic” banner. Sensitive issues such as Palestine, Kashmir, and Iraq have been used to bring together Muslim communities under unified goals. As a result, separate Muslim education programmes have increased among these communities, and inter-marriages between Muslims of different cultural backgrounds has become the norm. Through this, extremists hoped to create a religious “Islamic” identity that transcends, and grows on, ethnic and cultural differences.

It appears to be working. Half of British Muslims interviewed stated that prejudice against Islam makes it very difficult to be a Muslim in this country. Some 51 per cent do not believe that Muslim clerics who preach for violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion. Increased sympathy for an Islamist cause, lack of integration, and the absence of acceptance of Muslims into British society makes it harder for Muslims to challenge Islamism, and tough for non-Muslims to understand it.

Islamism is a desire to impose a version of Islam over society, anywhere. It can also include an effort to introduce it here, in the country where we reside via entryism. By refusing to challenge its roots, and its inherent biases, we increase negative spillover effects on all Muslims who live here. This manifests as prejudice. The way to tackle Muslimphobia is to tackle prejudice against Muslims. What it is not, is to pretend that Islamist extremism does not exist.

Let me give you an example. Instead of integrating with wider society, many Muslim communities in Britain have integrated on a wider scale with their own Muslim communities. They do this based on ethnic background, culture, common language, and country of origin. They follow television channels and news from within their own communities, while spending less effort interacting with the wider culture, social affairs, life skills, and appreciating the laws of their own countries. Some 31 per cent of British Muslims interviewed stated that they would like their own children to go to a Muslim state school, if they had the choice.

Disintegration from British society creates a breeding ground for preaching of religious hatred, and fosters a range of religious and political grievances. Broader social concerns within Muslim communities, such as discrimination, integration or socio-economic disadvantages, should be treated distinctively and not as part of counterterrorism agenda, which has been counter-productive. We cannot risk further isolating marginalised Muslim communities.

Moreover, there is a problem with viewing Muslim communities exclusively through a lens of their religious identity. It is entirely normal for Muslims and non-Muslims alike to have multiple facets to their identity, and an excessive focus on just one reinforces the Islamist paradigm that we should be trying to avoid. Promoting pluralism and understanding that gender, geography, economics, sexuality, hobbies and nationality are often as important to an individual as their religion, will allow for some fresh thinking. Supporting British values might seem like an overt focus on nationality, but really it fosters inclusivity and will help us tackle extremism, building a stronger Britain.

Beyond this, we must break this trend by pushing back against underlying narratives. This will require not just the voice of Muslims, but the whole of civil society standing in solidarity with those Muslims who are brave enough to challenge extremists in their midst. Islam is an idea: like other ideas, it must be open to scrutiny. But supporting secularism and challenging Islamism is not fighting “Islam”. It is moving from extremism to liberal pluralism. By neglecting to challenge extremist views, we will only increase anti-Muslim bigotry.

This is what happens when you ignore Islamist ideology. It’s time for a wake-up call.

Maajid Nawaz is the Lib Dem candidate for the Hampstead and Kilburn constitiuency is north London, and the author of ‘Radical: My Journey out of Islamist Extremism’

riosleftsock 8:02 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Does anybody know who is the head of religious broadcasting at the BBC?

gph 7:50 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Where I do I claim that they only sympathise with the motives?

I merely pointed out what the question was.

So there is only evidence that they sympathise with the motives, and nothing more.

And similarly with the violence question - violence could be anything from "you deserve a slap for that" (à la Pope), through caning under a version of sharia to mass murder. The first two, although unpleasant, are not sympathy with terrorism.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 7:28 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
That seems fairly consistent with the 27% who you claim only sympathise with the motives.

mentor 7:28 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Its time to ban prayer mats.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 7:27 Wed Feb 25
Re: Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
gph 7:23 Wed Feb 25

And yet 24% said attacks on the basis of publishing images of the prophet were justifiable and a further 8% refused to answer.

gph 7:25 Wed Feb 25
94% of Muslims are grasses
This spinning lark is easy

"If someone I knew from the Muslim community was planning an act of violence I would report them to the police - 94% agree"

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