WHO Poll
Q: 2020/2021 Where will we finish up this season?
a. Top Four, Champions League here we come
b. 5th-7th Europa League is well within our grasp
c. 8th to 14th anywhere in mid table is about right
d. We're in a dog fight before a ball has been kicked and we'll do well to finish 17th or just above
e. GSB have derailed our season before a ball has been kicked, the Championship beckons

paulon 6:30 Mon May 25
Deluded fans and clueless owners
He's a LONG SUFFERING FAN so it must be true.


Welcome to West Ham United: the home of deluded fans and the most clueless owners

Four reasons why the departure of Allardyce leaves me worried, saddened and sick

Monday 25 May 2015

It wasn't that much of a shock when West Ham announced Sam Allardyce's departure seven minutes after their defeat to Newcastle.
So much gossip dogged Big Sam’s tenure since he arrived at the Boleyn that it must be a relief for Allardyce to finally be rid of a club where he did everything that was expected of him - and yet that was never enough.
It is not just that the fans didn’t love him; those in charge – David Gold, David Sullivan and Karren Brady – never warmed to him either. The end of Big Sam's reign marks an interesting turning point for a club where 1964, 1965 and 1966 are not dates in history but days to be repeated: the past needs to be the present and the future. Allardyce was seemingly not getting the club any closer to the 1960s.

As a long-suffering supporter of West Ham, and a long-suffering backer of Allardyce, there are a number of reasons why his departure leaves me worried, saddened and sick.

1. The trinity of Gold, Sullivan and Brady
The three individuals have solidified the club’s finances, but in man-management terms, they have been difficult. Their treatment of Allardyce was akin to that of their first appointment, Avram Grant. They once left the Israeli in the lurch during an Arsenal game in 2011, when it was widely being reported that Martin O’Neill was set to replace him. Grant even threw his scarf into the stand and walked away from the Boleyn, desolate, after the match, thinking it was the end. In the end, O'Neill didn't budge.
Big Sam had to similarly battle a storm of speculation surrounding his job from the beginning. This was damaging to his set up. The team started well this season but form dipped. Yes, the blame must go to Allardyce. But is it not damaging to the manager, his ethos and his players that they exist in a bubble where the board are openly searching for new coaches when there is a slump?
Even worse, there is no direction as to what to do next. Rumours they want Carlo Ancelotti; they made an approach to Jurgen Klopp; they are panning on getting Rafa Benitez: if any of these men do come to E13, it would only be because their club of choice did not take them. Oh but don't worry, there's always Slaven Billic. He’s never managed in the Premier League before - whereas Sam has for over a decade - but hey, we're business people, we know how to hire managers. Remember Avram Grant?

2. The West Ham way
As a life-long Hammers fan, I have a sense of what the “West Ham way” is, as well as never really quite having seen it. For the West Ham way means the attractive, attacking, football of the Ron Greenwood/Jon Lyall-era.
The West Ham way brought trophies in 1964, 1965, 1975 and 1980. What has happened therefore is that this era is far too often hailed as something to hark back to, rather than something to move on from. It is no wonder West Ham fans get great pride at attacking Chelsea fans for having no history: it gives us a sense of historical superiority, because our modern-day superiority is non-existent.
Both Sir Alex Ferguson and Graeme Souness have spoken about this, with the latter saying on Allardyce's departure: "From my time of football, I'm fed up of hearing (about) the West Ham way. What is the West Ham way? They are a yoyo club."

3. Fan delusion
As a football fan, you always want your club to do better. But with West Ham there is a seeming fascination to build up our status beyond reality.
West Ham are not a safe Premier League club. They’ve experienced two relegations in the past decade. West Ham's highest Premier League finish is fifth, but that was 16 years ago. The club has always been flitting in and out of the top ten in the Premier League, as well as the league itself.
West Ham fans have the toxic combination of being obsessed with some historic claim to European top-flight football alongside the impatience of the modern-day game. We were promoted back in 2012 and by 2014 we were already calling for European football and FA Cup triumphs.
How could Sam provide FA Cup glory - missing for over three decades - just two years after ensuring promotion, and as he tried to find stability in a league they struggle to remain within?

4. Allardyce could do no right
Here is the crux of why Big Sam could never do shine at Upton Park: because when West Ham were winning, the praise went to those above him, and when they were losing, the fans took a sadomasochistic happiness in it: losing is bad, but it’s really good when you hate Big Sam. It’s as if there was some sort of pleasure in seeing form dip in the second half. Even though some games were unfortunate last-minute draws (Tottenham away, Manchester United home) and narrow defeats (Chelsea at home), there was a feeling around the club that loss was not a bad thing because it created an atmosphere for Big Sam to leave. By the last few games, it was like the club was willing the team to fail, to end the season on a low so that they were justified in not renewing Allardyce’s contract.
I look forward to greater days for West Ham. I just don't want a quick fix, I don't want instant results. I want a long-term plan to stability and success. Big Sam had started to do that, and he needed at least another season to finish it.


Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

peroni 8:55 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
He posts on here as mashed in maryland, or possibly Gentile.

Willtell 8:48 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
I'm not sure about which end of a canape is either chim but, I do know that the internet gives a voice to any literate twat however disturbed his mind is.

chim chim cha boo 4:24 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Totally agree Vinny. It's like James Cordon (my shit doesn't stink) has written the piece. We've a certain kind of fan who might embarrass you at a posh dinner party but would be there if you got cornered in an underpass on the way to Moleneux.

I know who I'd rather be associated with. So fuck if he doesn't know one end of a canape from another.

Vinny 4:12 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
The article coming from a West Ham fan actually saddens me because we have a supporter here who seems to have deep rooted problem with other West Ham fans and certainly the owners.

The tweet about "we're bad because we want to be bad" says a lot about his mindset.

I know it's only an article and it doesn't mean anything really but I did find this a bit of an attack on West Ham fans.

I'm all for people having their opinions but to submit this for a national paper to print and make the point that he is a West Ham fan annoys me greatly from the view that his smug opinion goes essentially attempts to show fellow fans up.

It's a smug piece but I something about the fabric of West Ham seems totally lost on him. He may support West Ham but it almost feels as if he doesn't support the West Ham I do.

gph 4:03 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
The West Ham way, as I see it, is about having intelligent players on the pitch, capable of playing intelligent football.

In "the Allardyce way", all the intelligence is with the manager, programming his automatons to be in the right place to take advantage of statistical phenomena, like fucking POMO.

Greenwood was about bringing out a player's intelligence. Several of them mentioned his advice to have pictures in your head, knowing where your teammates are and imagining how your opponents are going to move, in order to outwit them.

SDKFZ 222 3:36 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners

My thoughts exactly, how many times in a match over a 15-20 year period did we see the ball played back from the halfway line to their keeper?

Alex V 3:28 Thu May 28
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Seamouse 11:43 Tue May 26

A frankly absurd set of claims. The idea that the owners haven't supported Allardyce in the transfer market is laughable. The responsibility for the failures since Christmas is Allardyce's and nobody elses.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 11:37 Wed May 27
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
It will be massive news to Sir Geoff Hurst that 'the West Ham way' relies on keeping the ball on the floor.

Prometheus50 11:30 Wed May 27
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners

What makes Souness' bile about not apparently understanding the West Ham way all the more galling is that the same Graeme Souness has spoken at length about what he considers Liverpool fans deserve and expect

I would be tempted at this point to remind Souness that Liverpool haven't won the league title since the back pass rule was changed, if we are considering a 'Liverpool Way'

eastend joker 1:54 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
its the "West Ham way" then ! back to fucking survival sunday then .

dealcanvey 1:53 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Crap article. Have to agree with point 3 however.

jimbo2. 1:40 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Well said Vinny. We need to hear from you more often mate, a sensible voice of reason!

FruityBoots. 1:39 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Obviously Deluded and Clueless are the 2 factors in being a journalist also!!

Admiral Lard 1:36 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
What an absolute cunt of a man... Typical Independent bollocks form a Yiddo Hack

Not a single shred of intelligence in that article, just the bile of another fan

The fact is the whole premiership and some of the larger European clubs will not welcome another Manchester City coming onto the scene.

The potential for West Ham to become a European force through the move to the OS almost certain buy out is creating jealousy and spite from all corners

This man is a cunt

Willtell 1:35 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Lily Hammer 12:14
Point taken but, he was what we needed for the first two years but I would still argue he was not a good fit with WH. The two philosophies were always headed for a clash...

motley crue 1:12 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
A few still getting upset fatsam left, amazing!

ludo21 1:09 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
If we are really going to recover the 'West Ham way' and start playing football how we did in the 60's -80's then we need to sign a decent playmaker.

These sort of players have largely gone out of fashion but Juventus with Pirlo have shown that it is still possible to be successful with that type of player.... we just need to find one and build our team around him.

southbankbornnbred 1:00 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
And you're right - other clubs often want the same thing.

But if we are allowed to indulge ourselves on this, and I think we are, it is called the "West Ham way" because - as somebody further down the thread pointed out - Greenwood's sides were playing that Hungarian-style at a time when many other managers in England were defaulting to what eventually became the Charles Hughes model.

Moreover, because Greenwood and his protege Lyall played that way for thirty years, it became ingrained and synonymous with the club.

Hence, it is the "West Ham way", and not the "Tottenham way" or the "Newcastle way".

It's not rocket science, and yet foolish commentators like Souness and Shearer can't see something so basic.

southbankbornnbred 12:55 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Reality - I agree.

In my experience, West Ham fans have never pretended that the "West Ham way" is anything more than what we have described - and it has certainly always included the idea that we do not expect to win every game - we've just never been that sort of club.

Chippy commentators and pundits always retort: "Well, what have they won playing the West Ham way?"

They're missing the point.

We don't expect to win. It would be nice, of course, and should always be the aim. But West Ham fans have always been the sort who would spend their last fiver (a lot more these days, of course) to watch the side. And the only expectation is that the team would put the ball on the floor and attack. That's all we've really ever "expected". Because we find it entertaining.

Heaven forbid that paying fans should extract some enjoyment from football in the modern era, eh?

Gentile 12:54 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners
Only an idiot would get rid of a manager that delivered 12th and the best squad seen since 85/6 after four years of building.

Only an idiot would do that the season before a move to a new stadium.

Only an idiot would allow his fat kid a twitter account to embarrass the club in the media regularly.

I could go on and on.

Reality Cheques 12:46 Tue May 26
Re: Deluded fans and clueless owners

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