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Bullet 4:34 Sat Feb 20
EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
BBC
Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
The prime minister made his historic announcement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet.
He said he would be campaigning to remain in a reformed EU - and described the vote as one of the biggest decisions "in our lifetimes".
Ministers immediately divide

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Fo the Communist 1:43 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Nursey
I don't disagree with much of that to be fair. Where I do it would be down to interpretation of whether MPs have a 'right' to do what they are doing. And the bottom line in all this is, of course, we are leaving.

You clearly do not accept the referendum result was anything other than decisive. My view is that these shenanigans are almost inevitable given the margin of victory. Again, down to opinions rather than facts.

BRANDED 1:40 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Surface.

Its like sport.

, 1:36 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
So much blather on here. The country voted to leave and both parties will honour that so the issue is the deal. And as it stands what is on offer from May is not good enough. Her red line too is more to do with FoM than it is to do with sovereignty. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that we can have total control over who enters our country yet be subject to an administration with which we have no political input.

Remain was always the best option for me.

threesixty 1:30 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Mike

I think you went to Brussells? So you never had to deal with the French custom strike right? (not sure it was still going on when you went).

My point is that if customs coming into the UK is a lot slower because the EU insist on more checks, and if we have to import 50% of our food etc.. its just messy.

If every port, airport etc.. has to deal with this, after a few months there will be appetite to make it all go away.

I expect the EU to make sure every rule is kept on their side, simply because they have to make it seem like leaving the EU is a bad idea for their members.

It is a war of attrition. There is too much a stake for them. They will stand their ground.

So I just think sensible heads will prevail at that point and a deal will have to be made. And parliament will have to accept whatever that is. They will have no choice.

HammerTime78 1:27 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Anyone else getting an increasing feeling that this is actually going exactly the way our pro-remain PM, Government and Parliament planned for it to go from the outset? I know it's all a bit tin hat-brigade but it's certainly looking like this is all just part of a bigger picture. Either that, or we really are governed by a bunch of incompetent twats, which is of course highly possible.

I know it's in the past so pretty pointless saying it but once we voted to leave and Cameron left, we should've took the opportunity to bring in a horses-for-courses PM and Government who knew their time was up once we had left the EU.

We should've also made it our policy from the start to leave with no deal and prepared for that from day 1.
If the EU wanted to stop that, they could've always popped over to see us with their list of concessions.

Westham67 1:27 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Lunch time sovereignty check any issues ?

Nurse Ratched 1:26 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
We can all comment. We can all disagree. But when a very simple question was put to the electorate in a clear binary choice, with a leaflet going to each household explaining what Brexit would involve (ie no SM or CU) with the PROMISE the Govt would respect and act on the result, FOLLOWED UP by both main parties going into a general election STILL promising to act on the decision arrived at via the referendum, then the politicians had no right not to enact their promises.

Fo the Communist 1:19 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Nursey

In that scenario I'd accept Labour would be unable to get the contentious parts of its manifesto through. Just as the Tories have found out with their narrow majority. And yes, I'd accept that (not least because I disagree with much of New Old Labour's thinking). I might not like it and I might bang on about it but that's what happens in a parliamentary democracy.

Look at it from the other aspect, you would be happy to wave all Labour's policies through without comment?

I don't know about Mr Reasonable but while I am left-leaning I have spent most my adult life working indirectly for the Tory Party. Perhaps that makes me less tribal than some.

master 1:13 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
We'll never have another referendum in this country every again. Not clumping together votes (in our case by constituency) has lead to all sorts of issues (for them) as the results are just not predictable and manipulated as in the old ways.

The way we solve stuff here is GE's and constituency based votes. Trouble for these morons is that two thirds of those want to leave, and no matter how many have died or become of voting age, that will not change the balance. They've lost, one way or another, it's done. Now or in a few years time. All someone has to do is run on a manifesto to implement the leave vote and then say they'll call for another GE as soon as it's done.

Mike Oxsaw 1:10 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
threesixty 12:18 Wed Mar 20

I tool the Eurostar to a EU country last Saturday and the ONLY problem i encountered was that the travellator up to the platform at St Pancras was not working - other than that, swept through security/customs, left on time, arrived on time.

It's the French UNIONS causing this disruption, not the French government or the French port authorities, not the UK government or the UK port authorities, and certainly NOT Brexit.

Brexit is, however a handy banner under which to try and hold several countries to ransom and get a pay rise.

You can't be suggesting that Brexit should never have taken place because of the possibility of somebody hijacking it to serve their own personal agenda...or can you?

threesixty 1:10 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Surface

"Ah yes. Your usual 'ignore the democratically expressed will of the people' option. Actually it's more than that, it's 'let's defy the democratically-expressed will of the people'"

Firstly, I dont see how actually spending time preparing our economy to leave the EU ignores the "democratically expressed will of the people". It actually fulfills it. (btw, I hate that term, there is no such thing, its the will of some people being implied as the will of all").

Secondly, how does putting anything to the public again for "rubber stamping" ignore the the people's view on something?

The strange thing is that parliament allows for amendment and clarification in bills and debate and you feel thats something the UK public can not handle and will destroy democracy in this country. Yet parliament has this very process and is democratic.

Not a lot you say makes sense.. but hey. Whats new?

Crassus 1:10 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I see,

UK automotive issues around aging diesel powered cars - Brexit

German automotive issues - China

And what's wrong with Bosch bashing, they bombed the Rose and Crown don't you know

Hammer and Pickle 1:07 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
German domestic consumption actually quite solid as indicated by the scale of imports from its EU neighbours - the problems appear to be export-related and specifically due to the slow-down in Chinese purchasing.

Your Jerry-bashing has more than a hint of the Dad’s Army crank about it, Crassus.

Crassus 1:05 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I've put it the back of the 5 Series Tourer for the tip mate

Nurse Ratched 1:05 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
There were over a million votes in it, but yeah whatever you say.

I'm assuming if Labour gets in next time with a million or fewer votes, difference you'll say they ought to implement half the Tory manifesto and policies, just so they're representing everyone, like.

Mr Reasonable.

Fo the Communist 1:04 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Crass
Never mind the macro-politics. You going to give up using Round-up on your estate?

Crassus 12:56 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
In further news this morning of Germany industry, two of it's flagship brands hit bother

BMW - sales slide, profits down 10% and share price off 4% on the day

Bayer - Uncle Sam has the pip with glysophate, legal action and a share slide by 10%

Don't choke on your schnitzel 'Mutti'

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 12:55 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Branded

So it's fuck all like sport, then.

Another fucking stupid post which you contradict in the next post. Ridiculous idiot. You should stick to the unattributed C&Ps.

ironsofcanada 12:54 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
BRANDED 12:45 Wed Mar 20

Politics is different from law. A law means nothing if it is not a significant undertaking to change it. Fundamentally different concepts though of course, linked.

The referendum was backed before and after by laws.

Fo the Communist 12:54 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I haven't thwarted anything, Nursey. I have given my opinion on a football forum.

I have no problem with leave being enacted. I am a democrat living in a democratic country. And I wouldn't live anywhere else, Brexit or not.

But as Branded hinted, the result of a referendum does not end the debate. Why would it? I am sure Farage et all would still be banging on had the result gone the other way. And why shouldn't they? That's what happens.

And the bottom line is that while leave won, the result was nowhere near decisive enough to end the debate. That's what happens in free democratic countries. I'm surprised that is such an anathema to so many.

BRANDED 12:45 Wed Mar 20
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Zero

Politics is about winners and losers getting new chances all the time to have another go. Shit changes,

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