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collyrob 3:42 Sun Oct 1
Catalan referendum
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Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Mex Martillo 12:51 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Clutching for straws Holstebro. I guess you refer to the Spanish central Government? Not sure what they have done, perhaps something. My village council is a majority of the Esquerra (Independence party) and they do a good job. Obviously Catalonia is also ruled by Independence parties. One thing is for sure central Government has created a lot of bad feeling amongst the people where I live.

Mex Martillo 12:43 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
I did think that Surface, I put your name as I also answered your question.
I didn’t think you were blaming the Independence supporters for all the problems like some on here.
I think the central Government is responsible for the whole situation they have actually driven normal people to support independence. People that were very happy with Spain and argued against independence, now support independence. It is quite surprising to see, but I’ve seen this change in the last 5-10 years.

Leonard Hatred 12:42 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Barca - R Madrid postponed cos of security concerns.

FMOB

Holstebro Hammer 12:37 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
You just said what a lovely life you have there. The government must be doing something right.

Mex Martillo 12:32 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Bruuuno, yes, probably should go to Madrid...
I like it by the seaside though and it is a good life here, just wrong to paint it as some privileged existence at the expanse of Spain. It’s not.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 12:32 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Mex Martillo 9:14 Fri Oct 18

That's what I thought, mate. My post was intended to pressurise Hasbro into justifying such savage sentences for what were clearly trumped-up charges.

Mex Martillo 12:29 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Toll motorways, wrong again Holstebro! Get some facts man, stop this bullshit.
Catalonia has the 2nd highest percentage and by far the highest (double) km of tolled motorways of any Spanish community.
Some guys have done a study on this, Catalonia has 47% and 631 km of tolled motorways. In comparison your example of Galicia has 31% and 328 km tolled motorways. Madrid has 15% and 139 km.
What did say, SO THAT’S BOLLOCKS from you Holstebro.
http://oa.upm.es/52476/7/INVE_MEM_2017_282876.pdf

Mex Martillo 11:59 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Again Holsrebro, no evidence, just personal views and recycled accusations.
Official figures from the health department for the Catalan referendum are 893 civilians attended to by doctors, 4 admitted to hospital one with a rubber bullet injury to the eye. No figures from health department for the police, who initially said 39 officers were injured later as the debate of aggression developed the police increased their figure to 431. In my village it was police aggression in the polling station that started all the violence.
These past few days in Barcelona it has been different. Things are getting out of hand due to the continued suppression and aggression from central Government. You are right Holstebro, this recent violence is not supported by the Independence movement. Unfortunately people are very pissed off.

, 11:51 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
I would add that the population of the Basque region are in a majority for remaining as an autonomous region within Spain.

BRANDED 11:09 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Or, some Spics hating other Spics cos they’re more greasy?

Holstebro Hammer 11:04 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
They have it better than nearly every other region of Spain.
You speak of heavy handed police? But failed to mention the police officers with acid thrown in their face. There has been more violence towards ordinary members of the public more disruption caused by the independence movement. Which is probably why the leaders have spent the last 24 hours telling them to stop.
I'm all for peaceful demonstrations by the way.
Motorways are certainly not free in other parts of Spain. Have you ever travelled to Vigo? I certainly have, Most expensive journey in Spain. Madrid has a massive expensive Toll road as well. So that's bollocks.
I would say the message is shut up and enjoy the benefits we give you. Take your head out of the sand and have a look at what other Spaniards are saying about the situation.
This is very much the spoilt kid wanting another train set to go with his others.

bruuuno 10:57 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Mex - can’t you just move to Madrid? Problem solved

Mex Martillo 9:31 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Holstebro, Why do you say Catalans have it better? In what aspects?
Health is not better. In Catalonia you have to pay for the motorway as they were build privately, no funds from the Government. Go to Madrid, nearly all motorways are free as in many parts of Spain, because the Government build them to provide the infrastructure. Why not in Catalonia? High speed train (Ave), all go to Madrid. What about linking other business centers Barcelona to Valencia or Barcelona to Bilbao, no Government money for that, why?
Things that Catalonia do have better than much of Spain, but the same as Madrid are things the Catalans can control, economy and jobs, University education, research. This is down to hard work of the Catalans and people that are attracted to work here. They strive to have good international businesses and Universities, Research institutions and they have achieved it and have it and that stimulates more and that makes Catalonia what it is.
Strangely the central Government will not engage with the Catalan people, not only about Independence. Central government refuses to discuss finances between one of its most important economic communities and central Government. The message is shut up and accept what we give you. The budget for Catalonia has been lower per head than other Communities, Catalonia asked for more budget especially during the crises, did not get it overspent and as punishment had their budgets cut further. There were times when central Government used this to blame Catalonia for the national debt even thought Catalonia made large contributions to the national GDP. Then the police started getting violent, I saw this in my village, great big police men hitting OAPs, that was a big reminder of Franco persecution and fueled more Independence. Now this sentencing, same more Independence.
Comma and others are right a proper referendum would solve everything, but central Government will never agree, will not even acknowledge and discuss the problem.

Mex Martillo 9:19 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Holstebro and others, your a bit out of touch with your “less than 50% of the population want independence”. For sure it is the same now, impossible to call or even a majority for independence.
Let’s look at the most recent votes. Over 2M consistently vote for independence, this has been demonstrated in the last 3 votes, EU MEPs, Catalan Parliament and the referendum. The voting population is about 5.3M. If turn out is 75% or less, independence wins, as you can be sure that over 2M will turn out to vote for Independence.
Also the last two elections for Catalan Parliament have returned a majority in the Parliament for independence. Lets look at the last Catalan Parliamentary election, 80% turnout, 2,046,710 vote for independence candidates, 1,870,192 for “Spain united candidates” and 320,269 voted for a party that was on the fence saying it would hold a referendum and let the people decide. Split that vote between Independence and Spain and Independence wins.
With this sentencing and further police violence against demonstrators, more people will be turning to Independence.
Holstebro, where do you get your statements? What polls? How were the polls conducted? What percentage of the population was asked and in what areas. Polls are pretty crap these days anyway.

Mex Martillo 9:14 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Holstebro and Surface, the misuse of public funds is a bit of a joke. It is spending that was supposedly made to organise the referendum, the prosecutors had trouble to find evidence and ended up with things like payment for the electricity used in public buildings opened for an illegal vote. In addition, much of the spending was made before the vote was made illegal. But for example evidence of spending to print ballot papers was just not found. Even so, is 9 - 13 years justifiable for this sort of misuse of public funds? Also, remember the public that provides these funds voted by a majority for the funds to be spent in that way!! The MPs now in prison stood for election saying they would do this. They were elected with a majority in the Catalan Parliament, surprisingly they stuck with their election promises and were then put in prison of doing it.

Mex Martillo 9:11 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Bruuuno, it is a bit like the English (South East I would add), but England does not have all the injustice and suppression that the Catalans get. The English is more like Madrid, also a rich part of Spain, but with all the privileges of having central Government to make sure they get a good deal.

Mex Martillo 9:05 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
The Basques are definitely up for Independence. It is very similar to Catalonia. I have no idea how a referendum would possibly go in the Basque country. The big difference is the Basques collect their own taxes, make their own budgets and then give any unspent taxes to central Government. Obviously the Catalans would like this arrangement and it would probably go a long way to stop the Independence movement in Catalonia. What is the difference? The Basque country is much smaller than Catalonia, so although also a rich part of Spain the revenue is small and if they keep it or give it to central Government it does not make much difference.

Mex Martillo 8:57 Fri Oct 18
Re: Catalan referendum
Good morning, well I’m strike today. It’s a general strike over Catalonia in support of the political prisoners.

So, good or bad for you guys, I have a bit of time to give my opinion based on evidence that goes against some of the opinions here that are not supported by much evidence and that are generally out of date.

goose 1:26 Wed Oct 16
Re: Catalan referendum
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44431122

goose 1:23 Wed Oct 16
Re: Catalan referendum
comma, the Basque people are 100% pro-independence from Spain (and France).

probably why they have ETA.

, 12:23 Wed Oct 16
Re: Catalan referendum
The people in Euskal Herria, aka Basque Country, are by a majority content to be part of greater Spain whilst at the same time enjoying their regional political autonomy, enabling them to keep their language and culture alive.

By comparison with the Basques the Catalans certainly Spanish having a language which is effectively a dialect of Castilian Spanish and a DNA which is indistinguishable from the rest of Spain and significantly different to the true Basque.

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