WHO Poll

OLD GEEZER 8:20 Sun Jan 28
Academy players not up to it.
After the terrible performance yesterday all the talk is about spitting, injuries and being knocked out of the cup by a lower league team and aggression towards the board.
What is not being mentioned is the lack of quality in the young players brought into the side.
The hype around Martinez is so far unproved at senior level. Yesterday he was totally dominated and did not look physically able to cut it. His touch was terrible.
Josh Cullen is a neat little player but top class? I think not.
Reece Oxford is living off the glory of a fantastic debut two seasons ago. Nothing since. I will admit however that we have not seen him in his preferred position.
Reece Burke looks to me to be the one most likely to progress but will he be top class. Probably not. .
Not looking great from the academy is it. .

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Darby_ 1:41 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
The team wasn’t just weakened, but also makeshift. A lot of the players had never or only rarely played with each other in competitive games.

Not an ideal situation to bring in youngsters.

ornchurch ammer 1:22 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
The other reason is, as Brick Lane said, that kids are rarely blooded individually.

The best academy/U23 team is never going to go well in the Premier League, or indeed the lower leagues given the evidence of the piss pot trophy, but take a player and put him in an otherwise full strength team and they will probably look ok.

ornchurch ammer 1:17 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
The main reason that Academy players, not just ours, are not up to it is that the first time they experience real competititive football is when they play in the first team, either their own or on loan elsewhere.

Kids playing age group football is never going to fully prepare them to play against men who play as though their lives depend on it.

brick_lane_batty_boy 12:40 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
I actually feel for the younger ones - the only time they actually do get a sniff at the first team - half the first aren't playing - they're surrounded by players like themselves who are trying to make an impression.

There is no doubt in my mind that individually, dropped into our first eleven - i.e our strongest side they would hold their own.

Reece Burke won't be as good as Tomkins - so in my eyes, he should be let go.

Reece Oxford - Has really shown nothing in my opinion. One swallow does not make a career - I remember Wayne Quinn having one good game for us...

Toni Martinez I would keep and try and blood now Sakho has gone. Only time will tell with him - he obviously has a knack for scoring in lesser competitions.

Josh Cullen - got a lot of praise from Bradford when he played consistently last year. Not so much up playing for a struggling Bolton side. I think he would probably look the most competent surrounded by the likes of Obiang, Noble, Arnie and Lanzini.

All in all though, I don't think the current crop are up to it - so we should definitely sign some past it over the hill foreigners looking for a last pay check if we can.

Alex V 12:07 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
They don't all have to become world-class stars - if they can usefully fill out the squad that's a decent return. I'm happy for the likes of Cullen to be a sub and get some bits and bobs of game-time for the next 6 months. It's the job of the coaches to work with them over time and get the best out of each of them. A bit of patience required too - they aren't going to be superstars overnight.

jack flash 11:04 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
"Not up to it" is a bit strong at this point

Not ready for 1st team action would be nearer the mark, & given the crippling injury list, I believe playing them all in the cup was unavoidable

Rice is going to be a top player, I just hope we can hang on to him. Definitely more than ready for 1st team action

Burke might be OK given 20 mins of game time here & there

Cullen needs to bulk up a bit but like the rest should be farmed out under competent managers

If the previous rumours about a big money offer for Oxford are true I'd listen to anything around the Ł8million quoted in the press. I think he'll be a good player (for someone else) in years to come, but he doesn't seem to be progressing for whatever reason

normannomates 2:07 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
For me..I've always bigger up Rice.

Oxford has been handled really badly Imo..he will make it ..but not with us.
Burke and Cullen...treading water..had high hopes for Burke..but in all honesty both Championship standard.

Martinez ..will never be a top level player.

always sure about Rice. .I predict Nathan Holland will be the only other.
Quina for all the hype..is flattering to deceive

AKA ERNIE 1:16 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
been amazed at how slow martinez is

. . 12:47 Mon Jan 29
Re: Academy players not up to it.
I don't feel any Academy Plays To any Great Standard. I feel we are getting disillusioned by watching our Academy Play against other like minded Academies.

The academies should be running away with the Checkatrade Trophy However I think it was 4 from 16 that made it through to the Knock out stages.

With a bit of luck playing in the checkatrade will serve to improve the Academy.

HAMMERAMA 9:24 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
In reply my thoughts on Martinez is probably like many on here we would like to think we have unearthed a diamond but he is very limited mostly through lack of pace, he has got a shot on him but unless he gets a run in the team my feeling is he is going to come up short of making it in the Premiership.Sameulson is a show pony not strong or brave enough through the middle and too greedy wide, does not play people in quick enough and until recently did not put a shift in defensively to me every time I have seen him he is a luxury player. Saying that when Holland,Martinez,Kemp and Samuelson attacking together it was one of the best experiences I have seen at Academy level.

El Scorchio 4:50 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
In the cup games this year they've been massively let down by most of the senior players around them. I expected more from Oxford, but the rest have probably done the best they realistically could under the circumstances.

As for the manager, he's in a no-win situation here with regard to how they get used.

Don't play them? Gets caned for not giving them a chance, win or lose.

Does play them? Gets caned for 'throwing' the cup because he's not putting out the strongest possible team.

Clearly due to a very long injury list he's had to rely on the youth players a little more than he'd probably have liked in the last couple of matches, and throw more of them out there in the firing line than is ideal. It's not the best way to blood them.

Jasnik 4:31 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Up front we were usless.

jimbo2. 4:21 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
It’s very unfair to blame Moyes for playing several young players against Wigan. Who else was there to pick instead of them? The only available senior player not in yesterday’s squad was Ginge. He is now 35 & obviously being saved for the CP game on Tuesday, absolutely the right decision I believe. Probably only a couple of our “ more promising” players could make it for us at senior level, several others will no doubt have to set there sights a little lower. This is almost certainly the case for most other Prem teams too, not just us!

ironsofcanada 4:06 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Wish he was more ominous.

Jasnik 3:58 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Anonymous bloody spell checkers no idea how it got that word

Jasnik 3:56 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Haksabanovic would have been good to have seen more of him.

Burke did ok but got caught out for the first goal plus hart should have done better.

Oxford was again ominous.

ironsofcanada 3:50 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
I don't think anyone is judging them on one game. For one thing, that is why Moyes kept them around. The Bolton manager thought Burke and Cullen were coming back after the first one. I think it was similar with Oxford.

I have watched all three including one live and I think they aren't ready and it would be a shame to use them as an excuse to not bring in players. We still have loans deal pending for most of them.

the exile 3:30 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
HAMMERAMA - what's your opinion of Martinez, Samuelsen and Haksabanovic?

Totally agree with PeeWee - judging the young players on yesterday's game is very wrong. The best way to introduce them to the first team is one at a time, mostly off the bench. There were too many of them yesterday to form any kind of coherent team.
Also don't forget that Wigan are a very strong side in very good form - they're almost certainly going to walk their league and look like they barely need to strengthen to prosper in the Championship next year. They would have given a good game to our full-strength side.
Having said all that, it's difficult to see how the young players will get much in the way of opportunities other than in an exceptional injury crisis (+ Masuaku suspended) that we are going through at the moment. In the PL, Moyes will only ever play them as a last resort and even then they really need to stand out, as Rice has done.

Roeder-nowhere 3:24 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Stick them together in a disjointed side with a few senior
players who can’t be arsed playing Wigan, with too many defenders and no creative spark against a league side totally up for the scalp and it was never going to bode well.
Oxford has played well for a good German side on their first team, Rice has played very well for us in a strong side also.
I imagine if martinez has Arnie and lazini to feed him
he may fair better too. Instead he had obiang cullen etc Hardly magicians of the through ball...

southwoodford 2:07 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
The youngsters wouldn't have been playing yesterday - and certainly not en masse - if Moyes had any alternative, so it's pointless drawing any conclusions about their performance. It was a high pressure game and we didn't even have a recognised captain to manage them on the pitch. Why Collins didn't play is a mystery to me. Playing young Burke instead alongside the innocuous Ogbonna wasn't the best pairing. Other than that, what were his alternative options? We have a poor squad and it seems a pair of elderly owners lacking the funds &/or will &/or nous to invest. It can't help that they are not held in particularly high regard by the rest of their industry.

swindon hammer 1:08 Sun Jan 28
Re: Academy players not up to it.
Said a while back that Rice and Nathan Holland would be the 2 most likely to succeed.

It's a shame for Holland that he got injured just as Moyes was coming in as the lack of wide players we have at the club and the injuries we have he would've been given a chance.

Just hope that this the subject of this thread and the performances of some of the kids will now stop people saying "throw all the kids in" every time we are struggling.

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