WHO Poll
Q: 2022/23 You are the Chairman what do you do with Moyes?
a. Stick with him obviously, he's delivered two good seasons back to back and will see us out of this dip in form
b. If we're still lingering around the bottom three by the start of the WC then that's the time to get rid
c. What are we waiting for 2 wins in the last 20 PL games is reason enough to sack him, go now
d. I've just got my new Orange & White 3rd Kit with Moyesinho on the back, I can't wait to wear it down to the supermarket, they call me Mr West Ham around here

Northern Sold 7:04 Sun Jun 16
What a showman... absolute box office... 2nd round as good as you will see...great stuff

"Living in Americaaaaaaa...."

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Hermit Road 1:48 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury
All this talk about lineal champions got me watching the Tyson Spinks fight. It was important to Tyson to get it.

At the end of the day, boxers are putting it all on the line to do their job and at heavyweight, a career built over years can be destroyed in a second. I don’t begrudge them doing whatever they have to do to promote themselves and earn as much as they can. For my money, Fury is still the one to beat because he’s the man who beat them all, including that Wilder travesty.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 12:45 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury
Fury was the lineal champ but lost it when he stopped boxing for a couple of years. However, the 'title' is now officially vacant. Since he is now fighting again, as soon as Fury fights Ruiz or Wilder and there is a clear result, I presume the winner will be declared the new lineal champion.

Council Scum 12:13 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury

In order to be The Man that beat the man, you actually have to beat him.

So the lineal title is pretty much a joke. Ali came back and lost, you can trace the title back to Patterson from Lewis, the rest just becomes a joke.

jfk 12:46 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury
Grays 7:10 Mon Jun 17

East Auckland Hammer 12:39 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury
CS suggested that he hadn't ever been the Lineal Champ.

He was, when he beat the previous Lineal Champ Klitschko.

I agree that he shouldn't be considered that now because he did retire for all intents and purposes. Technically, given he didn't lose a fight, and always claimed he was joking about retirement and always intended to return, he could make a case for retaining that title, which is a bit of a joke.

But, is it really any more of a joke than the overall circus that is heavyweight boxing?

tnb 12:27 Thu Jun 20
Re: Fury
The lineal champion only becomes a 'thing' (and a pretty stupid one) when a Champion retires, or in effect retires from that weight class.

Fury to all intents and purposes retired, having won two of the four available belts (a belt awarded by a magazine does not count). Therefore, the 'lineal' championship - arguably - passes to whoever wins a fight between the next contenders in line. It has never been accepted that a champion can retire and keep hold of his titles. In this scenario, Fury isn't the lineal champ. He's the man who bought the lineal championship (nonsense as it is) into being. If Lewis came back, is he the lineal champion because he won his last fight? It's nonsense.

Fury is a bloody good boxer. Better than I ever thought he had a chance of becoming. And against all appearances, a pretty good bloke it would seem. I wish him all the best. But the lineal champ he ain't.

East Auckland Hammer 11:41 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
It didn't end when Lewis retired.

As in previous cases of the "reigning" Lineal Champion retiring, generally the two top contenders for the title fight for it, along with whatever other titles are on the line.

It's happened the following times, just in the Heavyweight division:

Jim Jeffries retired in 1905. Later in 1905 Marvin Hart fought Jack Root for the world Heavyweight title, and also became the Lineal Champion.

Gene Tunney retired in 1928. In 1930, Max Schmelling defeated Jack Tunney to win the Heavyweight title, and also became the Lineal Champion.

In 1949, Joe Louis retired. Later in 1949, Ezzard Charles beat Jersey Joe Walcott to claim the vacant Heavyweight title and either collected the Lineal Champion tag then too, or when he beat Joe Louis the next year.

In 1956, Rocky Marciano retired. Floyd Patterson stepped up from Light Heavyweight to win a tournament to find the new Heavyweight World Champ and beat Archie Moore, also becoming the new Lineal Champion.

In 1967, Cassius Clay was had all his titles and licenses stripped due to refusing to join the army. In 1970, Joe Frazier defeated Jimmy Ellis in a unification fight, and also became the Lineal Champion.

In 1979 Muhammad Ali retired. He then un-retired the next year and lost to Larry Holmes who became Heavyweight and Lineal Champion.

In 2004, Lennox Lewis retired, and there was a 5 year gap until Wladimir Klitschko was awarded the title after beating Ruslan Chagaev.

When Fury beat Klitschko in 2015, he then became the Lineal Champion, along with whatever the other belts were.

I'm no boxing historian, but using Wikipedia, and https://www.linealboxingchampion.com/what-is-the-lineal-championship it's pretty easy to piece it together.

Stepney.Ammer 8:33 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
I like Fury, think he’s the sort of character boxing needs.

The Joe Rogan podcast he did a few months back is well worth a watch/listen. Gives a good insight as to what is like as a bloke and just what he went through.

Council Scum 5:54 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Ain't a dig fella, I'm just saying, once Lewis retired, it ended, trying to pretend you are the man that beat the man by having one fight against a nobody, is a joke.

dealcanvey 5:36 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Council Scum


Council Scum 5:22 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
"He is still the man who beat the man"

No he's not.

dealcanvey 5:12 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Whether people acknowledge him as a Lineal champion is up to them. A Lineal champion has been around since the 1800s and before all these various world titles.

He is still the man who beat the man and has not been defeated since.

Some dont see him as a lineal champion but many others do.

Council Scum 4:12 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury

They changed the ruling on it, sorry, but there is no such champion now.

Steven P 3:59 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Not that I necessarily agree with it but from Sports Illustrated...

Wladimir Klitschko

The lineal championship in professional boxing, commonly described as "the man who beat the man," is a notional title intended to clarify the modern hodgepodge of sanctioning bodies and alphabet titles. A boxer can only win the lineal championship by defeating the previous lineal champion in the ring. If the lineal champion retires, dies or moves to another division, the vacancy is typically filled by a box-off between two or more top-ranked contenders. The third and most recent interruption of the heavyweight lineage came in 2004, when Lennox Lewis retired and vacated the championship. Only when Wladimir Klitschko knocked out Ruslan Chagaev in June 2009, adding The Ring magazine title to his IBF and WBO belts, did a recognized heir to the lineage emerge. Klitschko defended his WBA, IBF, WBO and Ring magazine heavyweight titles on Nov. 10 with a unanimous-decision win over Mariusz Wach at the O2 World Arena in Hamburg, Germany. It marked Klitschko's 13th title defense.

Council Scum 3:52 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Lennox Lewis was the Lineal Champ and retired before he was beaten. But even that, that only stretched back as far as Floyd Patterson because Rocky Marciano retired without losing.

There is no such thing as the Lineal Champion in boxing, its made up.

Eggbert Nobacon 3:30 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury

He is, Wlad took the lineal title in 2009 when he beat Chagaev who was WBA Champ while Wlad held all the others

WBA title was not on the line, but for purposes on Lineal Champ Wlad became it that fight, then lost to Fury who has not lost since

scott_d 2:55 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
There is definitely an element of jealousy towards Anthony Joshua, but it doesn't mean that some of the criticism towards him isn't valid.

Taking a closer look at who he's faced since the big fight with Klitchko, agree he has taken on some decent challenges and some good boxers.

For me it's more of a frustration thing that makes me think that AJ and his team are less keen on Wilder and Fury than they are on him.

We've seen one of the big fights in Wilder v Fury, I just want to see AJ against wilder or Fury and if he really wanted to fight them I'm sure he could.

Council Scum 1:55 Wed Jun 19
Re: Fury
Fury calls himself the lineal champion, he's not and never has been.

Boycie 10:24 Mon Jun 17
Re: Fury
He is great. You forget when he crashed the press con dressed as Batman. Total nutter there should be more of them

lab 8:20 Mon Jun 17
Re: Fury
Fury learned his trade as a kid ...." fight yer for my bike " .

dealcanvey 7:17 Mon Jun 17
Re: Fury
Dont take everything to heart Grays. Acting very left wing about it all.

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