WHO Poll
Q: 2021/22 What competition should we prioritise this season?
a. The league is our bread & butter, so this year let's have a club sandwich
27%
  
b. We're owed an FA Cup after Gerrard nicked our last one in 06, our name's on it in 22
10%
  
c. A bye to the League Cup 3rd round gives us a good start, let's make it count
6%
  
d. The Europa is our best ticket to the Champions League, this is the one
35%
  
e. What's wrong with you, let's do the lot, has the quadruple ever been done
21%
  



Crassus 1:37 Sun Mar 14
Marvin Hagler RIP
Marvelous you were sir
RIP

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Takashi Miike 1:14 Tue Mar 16
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
my all time favourite fighter. this is the best tribute I saw, from teddy atlas


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVZaVsCG2vI

tanman 10:11 Tue Mar 16
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
This is a good read:
https://vault.si.com/vault/1987/04/20/the-illusion-of-victory-another-view-of-the-leonard-hagler-decision

southbankbornnbred 7:56 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Hahaha! Hoist by their own petard!

Doesn't mean somebody didn't get to Guerra.

Everybody I have ever spoken to in boxing (which, admittedly, is not a sport I covered for very long) said the result was deeply suspicious: not because Leonard won, but because of Guerra's scorecard and some very odd activity after the fight.

The fight was a damn close fight - even Hagler accepted that. But that 118-110 scoreline? That's what they might call an outlier...

Lee Trundle 6:56 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
From wiki:

"(Harry) Gibbs was originally supposed to be one of three judges, alongside Dave Moretti and Lou Filippo, in the Marvelous Marvin Hagler vs. Sugar Ray Leonard world middleweight title fight in April 1987. Pat Petronelli from the Hagler camp objected to Gibbs being a judge in the fight, and he was replaced by JoJo Guerra, who scored the fight 118-110 for Leonard. Leonard won by split decision (118-110, 115-113, 113-115). Ironically, Gibbs, watching the fight at home, scored the fight 115-113 for Hagler."

southbankbornnbred 6:45 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
MMG - yeah, the contrast between styles made the fight. It was a great event, just soured by a defining scorecard which nobody (even Leonard) has ever defended.

Such a shame, because the result ultimately pleased nobody. Leonard accepted that his win remained extremely controversial, which must be incredibly frustrating for him, and Hagler genuinely believed to his dying day that he won it.

If I'm honest, Leonard knew he got it on an outlier of a scorecard - and he dodged a rematch. He chose to 'retire' again instead. But Leonard came out of retirement just one month after Hagler - tired of waiting for a rematch - announed that he was retiring. There really is no valid explanation for what Leonard did.

MaryMillingtonsGhost 6:34 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
southbankbornnbred 2:36

southbankbornnbred 6:19

I had SRL winning by 2 iirc, but my mate gave it to Hagler.
Honestly think it was that close that it came down to who your favourite fighter out of the two was at that time. There were a few VERY tight rounds and to the fan it was whether you preferred the 'skill' of SRL over the 'aggression' of MMH.
Funnily don't see too many people suggesting a draw, which in hindsight may have been the better result.

southbankbornnbred 6:31 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
It's interesting...

Out of 42 scorecards for ringside press and media (bearing in mind most press had former boxers or insiders as their scorers, not just journalists)...19 said Hagler won it, 17 said Leonard and 6 scored the fight a draw.

Most post-fight reviews by expert judges have scored the fight in Hagler's favour more often than Leonard. Indeed, the bigger any sample size, the more experts and pundits think Hagler won the fight.

But there you go - close, close call between two superb fighters. A day ruined by likely corruption. NOBODY except Guerra scored the fight how he scored it. He was somebody's patsy.

southbankbornnbred 6:19 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Oh, Hagler-Leonard was a good fight from both men, don't get me wrong. Leonard was one heck of a boxer.

But I genuinely think Hagler won that bout and was robbed of it. One of judge's scorecards - that of JoJo Guerra - defied belief. He gave Leonard a 118-110 decision and that meant giving Leonard ten rounds and Hagler just two. It was a complete joke - and no serious boxing insider, commentator or pundit takes it seriously.

Years later, even Guerra distanced himself from his own scorecard!

People can make up their own minds about that, and what might have happened.

It was a huge shame, because it ruined a great fight between two top-class boxers.

Swiss. 4:47 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Agree with most of that it's narrow between him and SRL.

But the way Hagler had SRL cornered and he came back with that great counter punching off the ropes was sheer brilliance.

southbankbornnbred 2:36 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Best middleweight of all time, and one of the greatest boxers in history.

Personally, I put him above Leonard at middleweight, as I think he narrowly won 'that' fight with the dodgy judges. And, as some have already said, Leonard was more effective at welterweight. Hagler would have beaten Jones Jnr in his prime - regardless of how many steroids Jones Jnr took (I think Jones Jnr is one of the sport's biggest cheats, btw).

Hagler was brutal and extraordinary, able to fight at the highest level as either orthodox or southpaw - and able to switch seamlessly between the two at will, and not just for showboating. He would switch tactically, and to be effective. There was no Hamed-style showboating involved.

One of the toughest men ever to climb into a ring, too, which is saying something in that sport. Physically as hard as nails (how he managed to walk through Hearns' punches in the first round is beyond me) and mentally as tough as anybody we've seen.

And a true gent outside the ring.

Proper boxing legend Not one of these plastic twenty-first century 'oh, he's a ledge...'.

A proper boxing legend.

OccupyGreenStreet 9:15 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
RIP Champ.

marty feldman 8:44 Mon Mar 15
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
I think he was easily the best middleweight of all time. Robinson and Leonard were better at welterweight. And I think he was better than monzon and hopkins. Only one that could have beaten him was Roy Jones before he went up in the weights .shame the super middleweight didn't exist when he was fighting think he'd have dominated that as well.

zico 4:09 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Just echo what's already been said. RIP

tonka 3:52 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
I was lucky enough to do a TV show with him a few years back. He was in tiptop shape then, living in Italy. A real legend. He used to run backwards in army boots. RIP

Lato 3:41 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
One of my favourite boxers when growing up. A true legend of the ring.

RIP Marvin

Swiss. 3:41 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Second best middleweight of all time after SRL.

RIP.

Far Cough 2:43 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
harold, no doubt Monzon was a great fighter, I'd put him in the mix for sure

New Jersey 2:23 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
That's taken the gloss off the day a bit!!

Absolutely superb boxer, genuine legend.

RIP Marvellous Marvin!!

lowermarshhammer 1:18 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
Hagler v Hearns, about as good a scrap as you could ever wish to see.

harold 1:17 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
FC,
I wonder how those 4 great fighters would have fared against Carlos Monzon?

simon.s 12:35 Sun Mar 14
Re: Marvin Hagler RIP
RIP

Another great gone. Chim, Colin is good value. Met him at a few fights, and had a chat with him outside the LS when we were last there. He’ll chat football and boxing all day.

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