Modern football fans.

[wils]

Two stories. Both in the Telegraph. Modern football is a bit shit isn't it?

This is the thing about our stadium. Its not great as we all know. But these two stadiums, one regarded as the best modern football stadium in the world and the other  an old skool stadium, yet they are both having the same problems we are having.

It's modern fans. Not the stadiums.

[wils]

I agree to a certain extent, I was at that semi final and the continued singing after hackett's decision will never be seen again (by any club). was also at goodison in 1999, when we were battered 6-0, and the fans kept fake celebrating us scoring. completely took the piss out of ourselves for ninety minutes, but those were a different time. we hadn't had sixteen years of clear animosity from a board, and we still had a home rather than a rented shithole. they (gsb) created the bleakness surrounding the experience

 

 

Nothing I disagree with there. But each club's fanbase will have its own unique grievances or none at all. Yet all clubs are suffering the same malaise. Regardless of their stadium configuration or fanbase demographic. 

If you look at the links people are posting of WHO from the webarchive twenty odd years ago in one of the other threads, there is nothing new about fans saying 'game's gone' etc. Or saying they have had it with the club and cancelling their season tickets. Plus ca change and all that. But there is now truly something rotten in the state of modern football. 

[Massive Attack]

There are so many factors - Most of them mentioned. But the youngsters these days have so much other stuff to do. Young men and boys have their phones, computers / games consoles, online chat rooms. Indoors they got Netflix, Prime etc etc. They got gym memberships, golf is now more accessible to young men... I mean, god forbid, my nephew who is 17 even goes out for meals with his mates as do alot of young guys. They have now got better paid jobs and so have much more access to lots of other stuff. 

Compare that to 70's and 80's when basically for boys and young men, their football club was literally the only thing they had. It created the tribal feel and atmosphere. That's now gone. 

In other words, the mong generation. Most of us have had our time going more to games in our younger days whereas this lot would rather strap a phone to their head for all their entertainment. Although saying that can understand it more with how we play if the alternative was to follow West ham these days.

[Russ of the BML]

There are so many factors - Most of them mentioned. But the youngsters these days have so much other stuff to do. Young men and boys have their phones, computers / games consoles, online chat rooms. Indoors they got Netflix, Prime etc etc. They got gym memberships, golf is now more accessible to young men... I mean, god forbid, my nephew who is 17 even goes out for meals with his mates as do alot of young guys. They have now got better paid jobs and so have much more access to lots of other stuff. 

Compare that to 70's and 80's when basically for boys and young men, their football club was literally the only thing they had. It created the tribal feel and atmosphere. That's now gone. 

[Takashi Miike]

VAR is definitely a factor. But it's just put the boot in rather than being the cause. 

If you look at the QPR support though it confounds many of the factors we think caused it. Their fanbase has a big middle-class contingent. The old working-class fans have been dispersed westwards like ours has east. I know playing a London Premiere League club in the FA cup is a bigger game for them than for us. But they were quite impressive in my view. Maybe I am biased as they are local to me these days and I go over there from time to time.

The big difference for me is the expectation of the fans. If you think of the fans reaction to that semi-final when we were 4-0 down compared to how the fans reacted in all those big defeats in recent years. TV showing the empty seats as fans streaming out the stadium at half time.  We used to go as actors in the match; we now go as consumers. We are expecting others to provide atmosphere and think we have no part in generating it.

 

 

I agree to a certain extent, I was at that semi final and the continued singing after hackett's decision will never be seen again (by any club). was also at goodison in 1999, when we were battered 6-0, and the fans kept fake celebrating us scoring. completely took the piss out of ourselves for ninety minutes, but those were a different time. we hadn't had sixteen years of clear animosity from a board, and we still had a home rather than a rented shithole. they (gsb) created the bleakness surrounding the experience

[Massive Attack]

Cctv probably hasn't helped either. 

[Council Scum]

There are too many games

Too many games on the tele

It costs a fortune to go

VAR

Women started going in numbers after Italia 90.

All reasons why its not the same 

 

[wils]

VAR is definitely a factor. But it's just put the boot in rather than being the cause. 

If you look at the QPR support, though, it confounds many of the factors we think caused it. Their fanbase has a big middle-class contingent. The old working-class fans have been dispersed westwards like ours has east. I know playing a London Premiere League club in the FA cup is a bigger game for them than for us, but they were quite impressive in my view. Maybe I am biased as they are local to me these days and I go over there from time to time.

The big difference for me is the expectation of the fans. If you think of the fans reaction to that semi-final when we were 4-0 down compared to how the fans reacted in all those big defeats in recent years. TV showing the empty seats as fans streaming out the stadium at half time.  We used to go as actors in the match; we now go as consumers. We are expecting others to provide atmosphere and think we have no part in generating it.

[Takashi Miike]

When you watch old footage like this of the 1980 quarter final:

 

It's all young lads. Of course the atmosphere was raucous.

Now its kids, women, families, the whole demographic. 

I only have to see a still of psycho, and I smile. What a player

[Takashi Miike]

I'm amazed so many still go. a sport ruined by the increased tv money, technology and clear preferential treatment of a select group of clubs. the owners/directors had nothing but contempt for the fan base when I stopped going in the early 2000s, but now they'd be quite happy to see 60,000 tourists in that shithole. they've never had any loyalty to the fans. a sport where man city have (what is it) over a hundred charges of financial irregularities still unsettled, yet are allowed to continue hoovering up talent like semenyo/guehe ( the latter on £300k a week). the proposed european superleague needed to happen, it would have revived a dying product

[zico]

I was never a regular attendee anyway as I live down in Sussex and used to play or manage on Saturdays and Sundays, plus I ran an Adult Sunday Football League for just over a decade so never had the time.  Went to a few games with dad back in the 80's and 90's and when he died I did still make the trip up to some midweek games.  When my dodgy hips stopped me playing in 2012 that's when I started to go up more regularly, but that was generally after getting the bug after meeting some of the others on here at the time when we played in the Football For Fans Tournaments at Upton Park.  I would then drive or get the train to Upton Park when they started to make most of the area no parking zones.  I used to just get a ticket online if I fancied it and used to sit in the West Upper.  Saw some real crap at times, a bad home defeat to Wolves was one of the low points I seem to remember.  

A mate I hadn't seen for years came over from the US and I hadn't seen him for nearly 30 odd years so we went to West Ham v Brighton at the LS.  My first visit.  When Arnautovic scored I couldn't even see it as we were so far back.  We had driven up and it was a nightmare and I have to be honest the whole experience put me off.  Haven't been since.  I'm at that age now that I hate driving in the dark and can't be arsed to get the train, real pipe and slippers type these days.  Thing for me is though that in years gone by a Brooking, Bonds, McAvennie, Di Canio or Payet would get me up there.  Haven't seen much to grab my interest in recent years.  Agree with the below about Covid, certainly with us fans that made the odd trip, I think we just got used to being at home.  

[Far Cough UKunt]

I wouldn't mind if VAR got everything right but even with luxury of stop start video the absolute bellends STILL get it wrong, add the forensic nature of it and the whole thing is an abortion.

FUCK OFF!

[Eerie Decent]

Ferret is right about the atmosphere at Upton Park in the last few years, the Wolves cup game in the last season was as bad as anything you'd experience anywhere, atmosphere wise. Potentially the last ever FA Cup game we'd see there, and you could've heard a pin drop throughout.

There's a variety of reasons that can be argued about as to why atmospheres are shit, people's attitudes, cost of tickets, new stadiums, boring tactics etc. But without doubt, the final nail in the coffin, the death knell, has been VAR. An absolute abortion of an idea, purely money driven, and has killed the thing that made football stand out from the crowd from other sports.

Most other sports, points/scores/goals/wickets are ten a penny, happening often. Even Rugby, the closest in terms of point scoring regularity, has several ways of a team being able to score points, and has many natural long stoppages. Games/matches being stopped in other sports is par for the course. Football is unique, what other sport can be so entertaining, so thrilling, on the back of of a solitary score by one team?

When you're scared to cheer too much over a last minute winner against Spurs, or you have to calm your celebrations to wait 5 minutes to see if there has been a nudge on the keeper, you know the game's gone.

[honky cat]

When you watch old footage like this of the 1980 quarter final:

 

It's all young lads. Of course the atmosphere was raucous.

Now its kids, women, families, the whole demographic. 

Where have all the young lads gone, long time passing.

So where are they, what do they do on Saturdays now, play computer games? 

Without wanting to agree with ferret there were plenty of occasions when Upton Park was quiet, after all seater. I remember being at games with 10 mins to go and being the only person left in my row.  I did come back for palace and arsenal, last few games before we moved and it was rocking.

A combination of many factors, cost, entertainment value, societal change have left us where we are now. The big club cartel and VAR helping the death of the game along.

I expect the Burton game will be fantastic.

[Dick Shaftsbury]

When you watch old footage like this of the 1980 quarter final:

 

It's all young lads. Of course the atmosphere was raucous.

Now its kids, women, families, the whole demographic. 

[Far Cough UKunt]

VAR and the obvious ref's bias to the big clubs have killed it.

[Mad Ferret]

It's modern fans. Not the stadiums.
 

Nope, it's modern football. It's proper shit, especially the Premier League. 

The fans get bored, hence fuck all atmosphere these days. 

I’d say it’s both.

VAR has affected the atmosphere more than many people realise. Feels like you can’t celebrate a goal anymore.

I noticed when Wilson scored the last minute winner on Sat, usually the away end would be in raptures, but it seemed not to be the case. I think many people were expecting the goal to be chalked off and didn’t celebrate so wildly.

[Niblets]

It's modern fans. Not the stadiums.

Nope, it's modern football. It's proper shit, especially the Premier League. 

The fans get bored, hence fuck all atmosphere these days. 

[Far Cough UKunt]

I like Sunderland's fans they do a great version of Can't Help Falling in Love.

[Mad Ferret]

[Massive Attack]

Had a season ticket you shitcunt yid.

[Mad Ferret]

You weren't even there dude.

[Massive Attack]

I remember our penultimate game ever there, home to Swansea. The atmosphere honestly was as bad as anything at the London Stadium.

Was it bollocks.

[Mad Ferret]

Society changed.

Our fanbase changed. More from the home counties, too many limp-wristed Essex types.

The stadium going all seater.

There were obviously exceptions where the atmosphere was good, but week-to-week it was average at best over there in the end.

I remember our penultimate game ever there, home to Swansea. The atmosphere honestly was as bad as anything at the London Stadium.

[Mike Oxsaw]

It does make me laugh when I hear WHU fans bleat on about the Boleyn, or how all our issues would be resolved with a proper football ground.

The atmosphere was shit at the Boleyn in the end, and the atmosphere at any new stadium would be just as shit. Look at the Emirates and the new WHL - both libraries.
 
UK society is different now and that is reflected in atmospheres inside football grounds.
 

in your own words, explain why  "The atmosphere was shit at the Boleyn in the end".

Provide valid & verifiable examples of what triggered the change(s).

Use crayons if needed.

[Mad Ferret]

It does make me laugh when I hear WHU fans bleat on about the Boleyn, or how all our issues would be resolved with a proper football ground.

The atmosphere was shit at the Boleyn in the end, and the atmosphere at any new stadium would be just as shit. Look at the Emirates and the new WHL - both libraries.
 
UK society is different now and that is reflected in atmospheres inside football grounds.