Progress Under Potter. ?

[Cerveza Para Mi]

Pub conversation with one or two people on Sunday and the conversation came roun d to West Ham. It got me thinking about whether we've made any progress under Potter and, tbh, I reckon our away performances have improved but the results haven't, if that makes sense.  We've played 7 away games under Potter and only won one of them. Albeit against 1 of the best 2 teams we've played away since he arrived. We've drawn 2 and lost 4, with 6 scored and 9 conceded.  Performance wise imo apart from the Wolves game, where I thought we were crap, I don't think we've played too badly in the others. We were also, again only imo, unlucky to lose at Villa in the cup match, Chelsea at the Bridge and arguably deserved a point at Anfield.

But at home under Potter we've been bloody awful.  We've won 2 games from the 7 played. A win against Fulham which, based on performance alkone I don't think we deserved to, and a dull , easy victory against Leicester.  There were a frew decent moments against Bournemouth, imo the only home game under Potter where the football, has been remotely enjoyable, but the rest of the games have been pretty damn awful. Two wins from 7 games against teams, Newcastle excluded, who we wouldn't consider top bracket, two draws and 3 defeats. 8 goals score (3 in oine match) and 9 conceded.  And imo not one performance that could be considered a good one.

That, for me, is a pretty damning statistic.  Potter's high point so far has been the victory at The Emirates but for me our best performance of the season came at Newcastle under Lopetegui.  Also the only home game which I felt was enjoyable to watch was the 4-1 win against Ipswich. Of course I enjoyed the win against Manchester United but, let's be honest, they should have been out of sight by half time.

So have we made progress ?  Not imo. In fact , hard as it might be to believe, I think we've actually gone backwards.  Cards on the tabe because I know there's been a lot of discussion about whether performance or results are the most important, I'm someone who puts results top of the pile. Give me a shithoused 1-0 win over a swashbuckling 3-3 draw any day of the week. I want my team to entertain, of course I do, but above all I want them to WIN.  So looking at the hard facts 3 of our 5 home wins (in itself pretty pathetic isn't it?) have come under Lopetegui. And he also presided over 3 of our 4 away victories, although credit to Potter his sole away win was at Arsenal.

Progress ?  Not inb my book I'm afraid.

[twoleftfeet]

Spurs fans starting up another Potter thread and the mods allow it, joke club and joke fucking forum. 

[Mad Ferret]

Fucking zero.

The only person with any notion of positivity is that halfwit joyo.

 

And El Scorchio…when he’s not busy crying over Mateta getting a scratch on the head.

[Cerveza Para Mi]

Below were the comparison statistics just prior to the Southampton game. Not that you need them. It's blindingly obvious that we've improved defensively, although more by virtue of playing so cautiously that we don't give the opposition as many chances, than by actually improving our defending. Attacking wise we're clearly worse, as we all know. 
 

Which can be interpreted to show that under Lopetegui we had to score at least twice to get a point to compensate for our defensive failings, whereas under Potter we will only get a poiunt if we keep a clean sheet because we are tactically inept.

In fairness to Lopetegui I think at least he realised that our midfield was so lacking in creativity that he had to deploy Wan Bissaka and Emerson higher up the pitch to provide ammunition for the front men.  Potter has tightened the defence but the midfield is still bloody awful and would struggle to create itself out of a soggy paper bag. I don't look at stats all that often but it wouldn't surprise me if Wan Bissaka had proibably been involved in more goals scored than anyone else this season,

[Cerveza Para Mi]

You say the Wolves performance was the only truly bad one 
blimey 
the Palace game is up there as one of the worst if not thee worst game I’ve ever seen
The games against Brentford, Newcastle and Southampton aren’t far behind either 
I’ve never seen us play so bad consecutively as we do under Potter. I genuinely thought Lopetegui would be the worst I’ve ever seen, but Potter takes it to a different level 

If you read my post again you will see that I was referring to AWAY games when I said that Wolves was the only truly bad one.  I obviously agree with your comments about the games you mention.  My only disagreement with you is that I considered the Btentford game to be worse than the Palace one. But a bloody low bar which ever way we look at it.

[goose]

Fucking zero.

The only person with any notion of positivity is that halfwit joyo.

[Sir Alf]

Trying to be objective Potter's end of term report card grade =  F 

SUMMARY: in terms of the "scoreboard" stats, results and league position = worse
(A) Goals conceded and defensive solidity etc = improved
(B) Possession wise = improved ( but context is that its only deep lying possession and we are no better at progressing it through midfield or keeping the ball in attacking positions)
(C) Attacking moments, chances created, goals scored = worse
(D) Transitions or quick counters = worse ( because we no longer play the low block and fast one or two pass transitions back to front)
(E) Entertainment = worse ( "eye of the beholder" stuff - Lopetegui saw us ship a lot of goals but create more chances and score more which arguably is more entertaining overall but obviously not so when you lose by 4 or 5)

As a teacher might comment at the end of the report - "Must do much better or be expelled"
 

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

Below were the comparison statistics just prior to the Southampton game. Not that you need them. It's blindingly obvious that we've improved defensively, although more by virtue of playing so cautiously that we don't give the opposition as many chances, than by actually improving our defending. Attacking wise we're clearly worse, as we all know. 

[Maverick180180]

You say the Wolves performance was the only truly bad one 
blimey 
the Palace game is up there as one of the worst if not thee worst game I’ve ever seen
The games against Brentford, Newcastle and Southampton aren’t far behind either 
I’ve never seen us play so bad consecutively as we do under Potter. I genuinely thought Lopetegui would be the worst I’ve ever seen, but Potter takes it to a different level 

[Eerie Decent]

We've got worse under him.

I'm struggling to think of a manager who has taken over a team because a previous manager has underperformed, and made them SO much worse.

Man Utd is the only one to argue, but they are a different beast of a club, with many more problems surrounding them. Leicester were fucking shit anyway. Previous seasons, not many spring to mind?

He's taken us from 13th in the league, which we all considered a huge failure with Lopetegui, to 17th, being overtaken by the likes of Wolves & Everton who were fucking diabolical under their previous managers, yet some people on here are clinging to this weird notion that there have been positive signs. I can't get my head round it, it's genuinely baffling me.

He is not cut out for a job like West Ham. It's too big for him, too much exposure. He should have joined Leicester, the only other club in for him, gone down with them, and rebuilt under not a lot of scrutiny.