West Ham Online

"Been through bad time lately with suffering with this. Dark thoughts as well. I know some posters on here suffer with this. Anyone come through the other side of this shit?

"A number of posters have been yellow carded and told to stay off this thread unless they have anything constructive to add.This is a thread that has been very useful to so many, for any other posters with scores to settle, argue on another thread. This thread is sacrosant.Thank you"

"Bungo 5:47 Fri Feb 7 It's a level above that, although that is a focal point in the whole process. Apple, for instance need to shift their latest product, so they use every opportunity to convince people that they are expected to (be one of the first to) own it. Hieneken do a similar thing with their ""beer"", Persil with their washing powder, etc, etc., etc. The board are playing a similar game in trying to paint everything as rosy - making the choice to (pay to) attend games for you. Friday night, many are expected to go down the pub, get rat-arsed then go for a curry. They are also expected to believe that they are really, really having a good time and enjoying it, because, well, everybody else is. We. following West Ham, do it even more so; we support the team, so we religiously turn up at the (new) place of worship every time they do, no matter how bad that can be. we are expected to show our support. To be honest, had work and family commitments not taken precedence in my life all those years ago, I would almost certainly be one of those doing what was ""expected of me"", turning up on demand. Similarly, people, I believe, need to make open & honest value judgements about events in their lives and identify what they are doing because others expect them to do it, an what they are doing because they - alone - made the choice to do so."

Mike Oxsaw 4:48 Fri Feb 7 Do you mean managing patient expectations so not getting a script every visit is more readily accepted?

Timely: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51312487 IRONS!!!

"So a personal ""drains up"" expectations management could be beneficial? Breaking the link between what others expect of/from you and what you really need could be a first step, even though it means wandering outside one's personal comfort zone in many cases?"

Agreed absolutely bungo

*percent?

Never any danger of a slanging match. I don't do that. The right lifestyle changes across all therapy areas would probably reduce the public reliance on the NHS by 75? The trick would be to inform and get people to make the necessary changes before intervention is sought. Not sure we've cracked that one yet.

"Bung If a ""holistic approach"" is lifestyle changes that improve that list below then they can be very cheap or even free and without nasty side effects, and needn't involve a medical practitioner. This is where I think ""we"" are going wrong. There's a lot of talk about ""mental health"" and encouragement (well meaning I'm sure) to talk to professionals etc but very little if any encouragement to address lifestyle/habits that contribute before it gets to that. And the less said about SSRIs the better. I don't think we're gonna fully agree on this, and you're entitled to your opinion and I don't want this to turn into another slanging match so I'll respectfully finish there"

"Westham67 3:57 Fri Feb 7 It's a big problem. Mental health by it's nature can suck up huge levels of resource as there are no quick fixes and talking therapies are very people/time intensive and hence expensive. I have known many GPs who hate having to send someone back out with a script after a 7 minute consultation, but usually haven't got much else they can offer in the short term."

"Westham67 3:57 Fri Feb 7 It's a big problem. Mental health by it's nature can suck up huge levels of resource as there are no quick fixes and talking therapies are very people/time intensive and hence expensive. I have known many GPs who hate having to send someone back out with a script after a 7 minute consultation, but usually haven't got much else they can offer in the short term."

"Doug, if you're reading this and I know you come here... come home fella. Yes it's a fucking shitstorm but we've got your back. All of those things on your mind are of no concern to us. We just want you and your love. This is a new beginning for all of us. Please just call us buddy. We know everything and we're not angry. xx"

Yeah that's it Bungo. I just wanted to talk to Psychiatrist but there wasn't enough time and he prescribed me meds which I told I did not want due getting conflicting meds from 4 different departments for over a year

Not necessarily. If someone can get over their difficulties by other means then this is almost certainly a good thing. 'Medical' does not necessarily mean pharmaceutical or even surgical. It can mean anything that helps the person/patient. Think of medical practitioners as people trained to help other people by a whole variety of means (which may or may not include drugs). A buzz term I hear a lot in Medicine currently is 'holistic approach'. Most practitioners in healthcare wish they had the time and resources to spend more of their time pursuing this.

"Think this is where we disagree. You think there should or must be a medical answer, and I don't (unless as an absolute last resort). Correct me if I'm wrong?"

"Think this is where we disagree. You think there should or must be a medical answer, and I don't (unless as an absolute last resort). Correct me if I'm wrong?"

"Well the best we have currently is the medical profession. When I wrote: ""Every patient is different. Each needs to be assessed, diagnosed and prescribed relevant treatments individually. No one size should fit all"", the word 'treatments' covers everything. not just pills and potions. You would probably be surprised how anti-pharmaceuticals many Drs are. They are forced into trying these first as the rest of their options are so limited. Frankly, there have never been safer anti-depressants available, so the risk with current treatments is a lot less than older ones (tricyclics for example). I wouldn't have those in the house if I had a young child they are so dangerous in overdose."

"I don't have ""the answer"", Bungo. I'm just saying the current accepted trend of treating anxiety/depression as ""mental illness"" that needs ""treatment"" by a doctor/meds (meds which are addictive and exacerbate both causes and symptoms) doesn't make sense and clearly isn't working."

"So if they're not seeking medical help, who should be doing what exactly?"

They're encouraged to. And as you say many won't leave without a script. You seem to be under the impression I'm blaming doctors here; I'm not.

"If they're not presenting as a patient, then they won't be one."

"Bungo Before it even gets to the stage of being a patient, people should be encouraged to look at: - their diet - their booze/drug consumption - their activity levels and general fitness - their sleep patterns - their stress levels - their surroundings - their relationship/sex life - the general ""mood"" of the people around them - what they spend most of their time doing - stuff in their past that might be affecting them If someone's lacking in a few of the above a pill isn't going to help long term and I'm not even sure it should be treated as a medical problem, definutely not as a first resort anyway. And the thing is that SSRI side effects often negatively affect many of the above. See where I'm going with this?"

"Every patient is different. Each needs to be assessed, diagnosed and prescribed relevant treatments individually. No one size should fit all."

"Again I think we're seeing this from different perspectives and not necessarily disagreeing. I just don't think ""depression"" or ""problems"" caused by lifestyle can or even should be fixed by a pill."

mashed in maryland 12:21 Fri Feb 7 I really don't think that anyone on the healthcare side believes that a script will fix everything. Anyone that does think this has really got the wrong idea. Perhaps your mates are not representative of the wider populace? Clinical trials tend to focus on large numbers of the type of patient that the drug is indicated for.

"Bungo 11:49 Fri Feb 7 Its less of a plaster, often more slapping industrial paint on a papercut. Someone with a lifestyle that's making them depressed goes to a doctor expecting to get pills, gets pills, lifestyle doesn't change. 3 years later they still feel like shit but are also hooked on one or more pills and lifestyle if anything has deteriorated due to side effects. I've watched this happen countless times to mates of mine. The approach is flawed, not really the fault of the GPs, just this idea that a script will fix everything. See also many physical ailments."