West Ham Online

"Been through bad time lately with suffering with this. Dark thoughts as well. I know some posters on here suffer with this. Anyone come through the other side of this shit?

"A number of posters have been yellow carded and told to stay off this thread unless they have anything constructive to add.This is a thread that has been very useful to so many, for any other posters with scores to settle, argue on another thread. This thread is sacrosant.Thank you"

I agree. I'm glad it wasn't me who had to make decisions regarding his care.

"Nurse, I did miss that and that changes my opinion. Risk Management of individuals when considering their civil liberties vs the safety of the public is hard (Especially if you are a bleeding heart liberal) but in this instance the minute he made his confession he should have been locked up. This isn't austerity and people overworked, this is people baulking at making the hard decision."

He gave them the slip. Did you not read about it at the time?

They did not leave his side. ...So they were on that balcony idly watching as he tipped a 6 year old over the edge?

"mashed in maryland 10:58 Fri Feb 7 In a perfect world, I'm sure all would agree that treating the cause rather than the symptoms is the way to go with any condition. GPs are generally fire-fighting in this area and resources to address the causes are scarce. Every situation is different, and if the individual's lifestyle is creating the problem, then drug therapy may not be the best way to help that person. Unfortunately humanity has helped exacerbate the problem by often demanding a prescription from every consultation as we have previously agreed. Unfortunately we are far from that perfect world so unless we abandon drug therapy completely (when the silent majority would likely find their voice), they are the best we have to provide some short-term relief to most people while other elements of the underlying problem are also addressed (hopefully). Think of them a bit like a sticking plaster. Best not to cut yourself in the first place, but if you do, you're probably going to benefit by sticking a plaster on the cut."

"mashed in maryland 10:58 Fri Feb 7 In a perfect world, I'm sure all would agree that treating the cause rather than the symptoms is the way to go with any condition. GPs are generally fire-fighting in this area and resources to address the causes are scarce. Every situation is different, and if the individual's lifestyle is creating the problem, then drug therapy may not be the best way to help that person. Unfortunately humanity has helped exacerbate the problem by often demanding a prescription from every consultation as we have previously agreed. Unfortunately we are far from that perfect world so unless we abandon drug therapy completely (when the silent majority would likely find their voice), they are the best we have to provide some short-term relief to most people while other elements of the underlying problem are also addressed (hopefully). Think of them a bit like a sticking plaster. Best not to cut yourself in the first place, but if you do, you're probably going to benefit by sticking a plaster on the cut."

Not easy in any time when you need to earn a crust and save for your old age and pass on your genes.

"Bungo 6:47 Fri Feb 7 I think we're looking at these things from a different angle so I'll simplify: if someone's lifestyle is making them depressed or their mind go funny, they shouldn't be given drugs. If SSRIs ""work"" by making people feel less shit while still living destructive/negative lifestyles that's not really sustainable. Treat the cause not the symptoms."

I thought the West Ham comment was the salient point to be fair.

"""Wow, what a fit of pique"", before adding ""he's a West Ham fan"". And plays the Blue Veined Piccolo"

"Austerity? Bravery had six care workers assigned to him, working in shifts in pairs, 24 hours round the clock. They did not leave his side. He had his own flat. Some 'austerity'."

"Iain Dale stormed off Good Morning Britain during a fiery debate with other panellists. The LBC radio presenter said he walked off the set because his fellow commentators were ""closing him down"". It came amid a debate around mental health care and services and the duty of care of the mentally-ill teenager Jonty Bravery, who threw a child from a tenth-floor viewing platform at the Tate Modern. A recording has emerged appearing to show Bravery telling one of his carers about how he would kill someone and go to prison. A former carer said it was not the first time he had spoken about his plan and despite concerns being raised with senior colleagues he had been allowed to go out alone. On Friday morning, Mr Dale appeared on the GMB panel with Nihal Arthanayake and Grace Blakeley to discuss how the attack had been allowed to happen. After Ms Blakeley said the incident could be traced back to austerity, Mr Dale described her comments as ""utter rubbish"". He added: ""It's nothing to do with cuts; it's to do with people doing the sensible thing and reporting something."" Mr Dale walked off set during the debate (ITV) Both the other commentators pounced on his comment and began speaking over him. He was seen numerous times trying to make a point before saying: ""OK I won't speak"". A few seconds later, he stood up and said: ""Ok, right that's it"" and walked off set. Presenter Kate Garraway responded by saying ""we'd like you to speak"" and co-host Ben Shephard added ""Iain don't go"". Mr Arthanayake then said: ""Wow, what a fit of pique"", before adding ""he's a West Ham fan""."

"Thanks Try Michael Seally, on YouTube"

Thanks 67. Yellow Brick cinema channel on you tube is good for sleep music and sounds. Delta waves I think.

Peckham. 8 hour guided sleep hypnosis YouTube

"Peckham 7:20 Fri Feb 7 Cheers Peckham. Sounds tough. I am sure you're seeking professional help as would be sensible. Hopefully get some good ideas on how to tackle the insomnia that way. For what it's worth, I am happy to chip in with general info about drugs etc, but any specific or individual advice should come from a direct consultation with a health care professional. Good luck!"

"Bungo, I'm doing my best to reduce and seek alternative avenues. I'm feeling side effects more and more. Even the Epilim is depleting my white blood cells and immune system. I just wish for peaceful sleep as depression and insomnia is a bummer. As for people saying man up etc, the blitz , modern snowflakes. Yes all respect to those who suffered and cracked on in WW2. But manic depression was around then. With shell shock. Look at the London Bombings 2005, constant terrorist threats, loads of soldiers losing limbs serving in the middle east, people of today can man up and face adversity. When the shit hits the fan people do come together and put depression or mental health to one side. Bungo , Researching IAPT now. Not sure what it is but have been recommended by Tils St Pancras. Vexed with all due respect WHO can have a post and thread where users can openly share things they may feel will help others or even find it good to open up and share experiences. Like a meeting of minds but in the comfort of our homes or office hours with being able to chip in and post as and when one wants. Please Vexed consider reading Alfs Barnet post re.Brother and Frasers. People aren't really coming here for advice although there has been good advice. It's just something , suicide, depression , drink or drug problems. Every poster here not looking to row or argue has been effected by one or more of those problems. Vexed you're a funny cսnt at times. But deep down, you would have shared a pint with either Eddie Piggy or Gavros if randomly met at a game and maybe have more empathy towards those that take their lives, the families they have left and depression in general."

"Andy Metroprolo 25mg . I always check for conflicts. Its says don't take if you have a heart condition and/or taking medication for it . If you are trying to wean yourself off of meds ,see if you can get soluble tablets, like I did for Olanzpine, and control the dose youself a 5mg or 10mg , 25 and 50% respectively drop in dose overnight can be troublesome General tip for all there is Hypnosis on YouTube for everything, sleep , which I struggled with for month's, anxiety ect"

"mashed in maryland 11:24 Thu Feb 6 All drugs are essentially a balance between pros and cons. A prescriber should use their clinical judgement to prescribe when they believe there is a likelihood of more benefit than harm. SSRIs have been a benefit to millions of patients around the world, and are much safer than older anti-depressants (e.g. TCAs). Use of these drugs is based on huge samples in many trials, that have to show net benefit for a statistically significant proportion of those in the trials. Remember the people with issues tend to shout a lot louder than those that don’t (Trip Advisor?). Peckham 11:19 Thu Feb 6 I'm aware of the Dr Hickey practice. There are a lot of people who are prescribed more and more drugs over the years which can get messy, so there is often a good case for stripping back to the bone and starting again. Different Drs will inevitably have very different opinions on what to do often based on their own experiences. Addiction is a bit of an umbrella term used to cover quite different substances. Many people can develop a dependence on something, that is not necessarily physiologically addictive. For example I once knew somebody who had a profound dependence on diet coke and bread rolls. Completely hooked but not a result of the diet coke or bread rolls being 'addictive'. Diazepam is one of the more addictive drugs. British doctors are very nervous about prescribing these (rightly) as the potential for later cock-up is greater, and they can clearly be more easily blamed after the event if they have prescribed diazepam or similar. All Trusts and CCGs are also nervous about getting it wrong, so they all tend to give their GPs very conservative guidance."

Watched about 30 minutes of Frank Bruno being interviewed by some American bloke I'd never heard of on the London Live Channel last night. I know that he's not the sharpest tool in the box and he would be the first to admit that he has fucked up.in the past but he was very forthright in his views that medication is not necessarily the best way to deal with mental health issues. Humankind has been around for many tens of thousands of years now. For sure we've been getting anxious and depressed since year dot. Big drug companies chasing profits are a relatively new thing. The old ways of sorting out any issues are surely the best. I am lucky. The most awful tragic thing to happen to me in my life occurred when I was 5 or 6 so anything that comes at me is a piece of piss compared to dealing with that.

"Bungo 3:36 Thu Feb 6 Agree with your 3rd paragraph. Many people seem to think ""i feel bad so i need pills"". Not trying to belittle anyone's issues but what people these days call ""mental health"" is so often linked with lifestyle and life events. People should be encouraged to honestly address these first. And SSRIs are no joke, anything that it can take half a year to taper off from shouldn't be given out as freely as it is, and I've overwhelmingly seen them do harm, not good."

"Bungo, you may have heard of the Doctor Hickey surgery its abit of an institution in the GP and surgeries world , a Doctor there thought it was best over time to get off the Olanzapine, Levomepromazine, Clonazepam , Paroxetine and Epilim Chrono and simply take Diazepam. All the above are addictive, so why are Doctors so hesitant to prescribe Diazepam?? Bungo your comments and suggestions are interesting , thanks."

What beta you on 67? I’m on 20mg if Citalopram and also take Propranolol at the moment but in the process of reducing it down

I was given 10mg Citalopram took it for 5 days had pains in my region and googled it an it conflicting with Beta blocker I have to take I feel much better now anyway. I am only one lost key or bank card from a semi panic attack

"Peckham 4:40 Thu Feb 6 Interesting. Mind you, GPs are strange beasts. It may be that he had had a bad experience with a patient that had coloured his opinion of paroxetine. I really wouldn't describe it as 'just about legal' in the UK (even if such a category existed!) Panorama gave it a good kicking a few years back, but that was inconclusive. I have known drugs in other therapy areas get taken off the market completely when there is proper evidence that they may be harmful, but this has not happened with paroxetine. Venlafaxine (which is a SNRI), is another effective drug, but is very similar to the SSRIs in it's mode of action and results. The good news is that both paroxetine and venlafaxine are generic medicines now, so pharma companies will no longer be pushing GPs to use one over another. Generally this means that there are fewer vested interests at play."