West Ham Online

Hammer I am" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:50

 

I've watched the whole thing, I'm not sure how you can seriously defend their behaviour and he somehow deserved being treated like that. 

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:39

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:10 Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

What do you think this golden age will look like?

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:39

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:10 Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

What do you think this golden age will look like?

Something like Rodney's grown up Damien dream I imagine

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:47

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:29

 

I must be slow tonight because I still don't get the second part. obviously he's made comments in public but that wasn't person on person negotiation (diplomacy if you will!)

Zelensky rose to the bait on what seemed to be an orchestrated ambush designed to humiliate him.

 

The political theatre we watched and more subtly in the 40 minutes before (I watched the whole thing, not just the theatre parts) Zelensky was trying to negotiate, change the deal, do diplomacy, whatever you want to call it, in front of the cameras.
 
It was not behind closed doors...completely contradictory to what you said you wanted. 


Your last sentence is a parrotting of the neo-con war hawks I have heard since. It fantastical rubbish with some of the nastiest of backing.

Explain this "orchestrated ambush." Zelensky has a number of opportunities to negotiate and sign a deal in the last weeks and days.  The Trump admin wanted it done long ago.

Zelensky insisted he go to the White House.  So you are supposed to have an intro press conference, hash out the details - behind closed doors - and then sign the deal, cameras , fancy dinner etc.  If you think he was justfied in negotiating in front of the press (though you say opposite) he is not being ambushed.  If anyone was surprised it was Trump and Vance, if you watch the whole thing.

I've watched the whole thing, I'm not sure how you can seriously defend their behaviour and he somehow deserved being treated like that. It's like Trump saying Ukraine started the war

I wonder if you going to slowly fade into the background as Trump gets more and more unhinged going forward. I bet Argentina is looking on in interest 

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:10 Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 20:25

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:16

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:58

Are you saying those aren’t the facts. You only need google it to find the truth. Oh hang on why would you want to that!?

 

Oh you want me to google what a left wing rag has apparently fact checked? How do they fact check the treasury payment system? Why was it only left wing rags getting all this funding? You want me to trust the fact checking of the liberal media ffs? Sorry but they’ve been caught in way too many lies for me to take their fact checking seriously.

 

Is Politico a left wing rag... thought it was a Centrist digital news site. 

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:16

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:58

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:42

Who fact checked that Billy, Politico or the BBC?

Are you saying those aren’t the facts. You only need google it to find the truth. Oh hang on why would you want to that!?

 

Oh you want me to google what a left wing rag has apparently fact checked? How do they fact check the treasury payment system? Why was it only left wing rags getting all this funding? You want me to trust the fact checking of the liberal media ffs? Sorry but they’ve been caught in way too many lies for me to take their fact checking seriously.

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:34

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:25

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

Thin Ice? Trump recognizes we have too much debt, which is why we have DOGE and which is why he wants an end to the war ffs! Isn’t that obvious?

if you think the B of E has anywhere near the influence and power and control as the Federal Reserve you are sorely Mistaken. 

But as I said, if you are happy with additional cuts in spending or Having to deal with an  increase in taxation which includes inflation and  Interest rates then go for it.

 

The interest on your national debt last year was $1.1tr.
Thats just the interest.

How much do you think DOGE is saving you this year?

You keep talking about cuts & increased taxes but neither is actually happening. Cuts in foreign aid are absolutely fine with me, I’m happy for that money to go on defence spending.

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:36

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:30

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

 

Hmmmmn 0.5% of $27 trillion is a lot more than 0.9% of $3 trillion. Not sure what your point is, bottom line is your 0.9% is about to go up and ours is about to go down.Good eh! 

 

You honestly think UK can and should match US pound for pound in matters like this?? There's a reason why every joint operation involving money is done on a percentage of GDP since the beginning of time. You really haven't thought that through have you

F 129 Row66" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:38 Political question: On the Labour front bench there are Rachel Reeves and Angela Raynor, The Conservatives have Kemi Badenoch and Pritti Patel. Place them in the order you would. 

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:29

 

I must be slow tonight because I still don't get the second part. obviously he's made comments in public but that wasn't person on person negotiation (diplomacy if you will!)

Zelensky rose to the bait on what seemed to be an orchestrated ambush designed to humiliate him.

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:30

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

 

Hmmmmn 0.5% of $27 trillion is a lot more than 0.9% of $3 trillion. Not sure what your point is, bottom line is your 0.9% is about to go up and ours is about to go down.Good eh! 

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:25

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

Thin Ice? Trump recognizes we have too much debt, which is why we have DOGE and which is why he wants an end to the war ffs! Isn’t that obvious?

if you think the B of E has anywhere near the influence and power and control as the Federal Reserve you are sorely Mistaken. 

But as I said, if you are happy with additional cuts in spending or Having to deal with an  increase in taxation which includes inflation and  Interest rates then go for it.

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:05

 

So are you saying that the UK foreign aid program is as corrupt as the USA’s? Because some of the shit we were paying for was outrageous and some was blatant corruption, like funding several of big the liberal media outlets such as the BBC and Politico, making sure they were bought and paid for for example.

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:16

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:12

What in your mind is a contradiction there? Yes I said diplomacy should take place behind closed doors not live on tv, I also said I can't speak from a position of fact what has or hasn't happened behind closed doors before this, where's the contradiction?

Like I also said and correct me if I'm wrong but Zelensky said yes he's open to a deal  but only under certain conditions, like guaranteed security from the US, a sensible position considering he's already been invaded twice. If I were him I'd be sceptical that the Trump and Putin haven't already agreed to carve up Ukraine amongst themselves in their little peace negotiation that he wasn't invited to

 

You are saying it should have been behind closed doors but he was justified in doing what he did which was...not doing it behind closed doors.

Not sure how clear a contradiction you need. 

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:13

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:05

 

So are you saying that the UK foreign aid program is as corrupt as the USA’s? Because some of the shit we were paying for was outrageous and some was blatant corruption, like funding several of big the liberal media outlets such as the BBC and Politico, making sure they were bought and paid for for example.

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:12

What in your mind is a contradiction there? Yes I said diplomacy should take place behind closed doors not live on tv, I also said I can't speak from a position of fact what has or hasn't happened behind closed doors before this, where's the contradiction?

Like I also said and correct me if I'm wrong but Zelensky said yes he's open to a deal  but only under certain conditions, like guaranteed security from the US, a sensible position considering he's already been invaded twice. If I were him I'd be sceptical that the Trump and Putin haven't already agreed to carve up Ukraine amongst themselves in their little peace negotiation that he wasn't invited to

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:58

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:42

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:36

 

Are you sure you dont want to fact check that Nutsin. The Politico payments from USAID was a false claim as they were subscriptions to Politico products and services.

The payments were not to the BBC but to Media Action a BBC charity that is totally separate to BBC News.

The charity, which supports press freedom around the world, recently received a $750,000 donation from Jack Dorsey, co-founder of the now Musk-owned social media platform X.

Who fact checked that Billy, Politico or the BBC?

Are you saying those aren’t the facts. You only need google it to find the truth. Oh hang on why would you want to that!?

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 19:06

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:45

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

"And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional."

Mate I know Americans aren't great at geography but have you consulted a map? Annexing Ukraine would achieve putting Nato on his border when previously it wasn't

 

 

Mate, The part of Ukraine that Putin eventually walks away with will provide a buffer zone for Russia.
Not ideal but Putin would rather have Ukraine border NATO rather than Russia, even the part he takes. Dont be so sure that Ukraine joins NATO. 

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:31

Nutsin wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 18:05

goose wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 17:54

I don’t disagree with you, but somehow in nutsins world when the U.K. cuts foreign aid it’s spreading misery - but when Trump does it he’s a legend.

 

So are you saying that the UK foreign aid program is as corrupt as the USA’s? Because some of the shit we were paying for was outrageous and some was blatant corruption, like funding several of big the liberal media outlets such as the BBC and Politico, making sure they were bought and paid for for example.

 

Now let’s look at your world Goose. The USA has provided over $300 billion to the Ukraine in all aid, weapons, money etc: Which also includes money for social programs too. Zelensky reckons they haven’t received half of that amount, what a surprise we have Billions missing and unaccounted for.


Trump is cutting off the funding, if he does there is a huge void to fill.

The UK’s GDP is approx $3.3 trillion 

Debt is $2.8 trillion
96% of GDP, according to Keynesian economics this amount of Debt to GDP is inflationary.

The country currently runs a budget deficit of $107 billion annually.

So fiscal policy won’t be easy or popular.

Monetary policy won’t be cheap,  with the Benchmark “Bank Rate “ at 4%

Now the B of E could print the money and carry the debt on its balance sheet but that’s inflationary too, I’m seeing your current Inflation rate sits at 3%, in fact it just jumped in January.

So we will see how long the appetite of these European Governments lasts before they figure out that throwing all this money at a problem that can be possibly solved with diplomacy is the wrong thing to do.

Zelensky signing the mineral agreement with USA provides Ukraine with a US backstop that he doesn’t currently have, strengthening Ukraines position in any negotiations with Putin. Currently Zelensky doesn’t even have that. The man is toast, he just fucked up in a major way. 
Personally I hope the UK sides with Trump for the sake of my Dad and my siblings that are still in the UK. But he won’t. And the war will drag on and you’ll feel the pinch in your pocket, more lives lost.

And if anyone thinks Putin doesn’t have a right to be concerned with hav NATO on his border then you’re a delusional.

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 17:41

Mr Anon" wrote: ↑01 Mar 2025, 17:25

The only point I can see you made is you see Zelensky as scuppering deals being made behind closed doors, I can't really debate what happens behind closed doors and nor can you surely. What I can do is comment and criticise what happens on the public domain. 

As far as I can see Zelensky stated he was open to a deal but only if US confirmed their security, seems reasonable to me 

 

You literally said "Behind closed doors would be a good fucking start," as something better that could be done. Which is it?

So your position is you can agree to something, say in the press multiple times you are going sign the deal and then change that in a formality press conference and expect not to be treated rudely?