UK house prices falling...

[Mike Oxsaw]

...a good or bad thing?

[BRANDED]

Britain has moved up three places to become the fourth largest exporter in the entire world.

[Side of Ham]

You crack on Oxsaw......let us know when you find which one of the two parties is going to solve this.....

[Mike Oxsaw]

"Side of Ham 11:14 Wed Apr 10 That's a very defeatist attitude - maybe that's why so many want to come to this country; they know the questions will stop once the slightest challenge arises. ALL the problems are solveable - it just needs the political will to do so. In order to do that, the first step, I believe is getting politicians, civil servants, their families & friends' snouts - directly or indirectly - out of the state trough. And, yes, it IS ""Turkeys for Christmas"", but Christmas is not sacrosanct and hasn't always existed."

[Side of Ham]

"Oxsaw, it’ll never be fixed for numerous reasons. Look at the cost of drugs and their research and then the mark up pharma are allowed to put on because a lot of them are abroad and don’t give a fuck about supplying a relatively free health care service. Then you have the fact nursing is not a job anyone wants anymore in the U.K. and the money will never be good enough to have a good life in the cities down south…."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"...""I'm trying to show that there is no fixing of the NHS ""... And in that little sentence lie 95% of the NHS problems. The root cause is not even considered up for discussion. What is the answer? Well, if we can't discuss it, we'll never know; equally if we enter such a discussion with a preconceived outcome already written in stone, we'll never get a workable answer. Bank nursing MAY be one of the problems, but the solution may lie outside enhancing or otherwise modifying (the use of) nurse banks, if people are prepared to let the discussion mature naturally."

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

"Debs, This is really difficult because you obviously don't know what 'data' is or how to read a chart. The ONLY data I have directed you to is the ONS export and import statistics as posted on the Trading Economics site. The blurb on there about fuel relates to just the latest set of figures. Let me talk you through this. Click on the tab that says '10yr' Eyeball the export and import figures for the past 10 years taking note of the high before the pandemic, the lows of the pandemic and the figures now. Do that. Inwardly digest. Then come back and apologise for lying about 'trade' being below pre-pandemic levels. You're a fucking moron. No need to advertise it so clearly."

[Darlo Debs]

Good grief you are hard work.sometimes I also.qioted back.your own date and even as soon as the first couple of paragraphs of texts it clearly states that while there was a slight increase in fuel products exports (0.7%) there was decrease in other sectors including manufacturing that impacted on the making of cars. I.am.reading your data and not mine there but if you really need me to.i.will copy and paste the bit in question .

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Darlo Debs 8:52 Tue Apr 9 'Figures the OBR use are ones the government uses for economic forecasting are they not?' No. The OBR does not produce data. It gives an opinion on government fiscal policy based on ONS (and other) data. 'Seem.to remember ignoring OBR data got Kwaai and Liz into.a spot of bother.' No. They got in a bit of bother for ignoring the OBR's opinion (not their data). They got in a lot more bother for mis-reading the room. You don't know what you are talking about. Stop digging.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

"Debs, The article you quoted is from here: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/economic-bulletin/articles/2023/html/ecb.ebart202303_01~3af23c5f5a.en.html The Impact of Brexit on UK Trade and Labour Markets by Katrin Forster-van Aerssen and Tajda Spital It uses data up to Jan 2023. And specifically notes in the sentence after your quote, which you unaccountable failed to include: 'By the end of 2022, the gap between UK exports and those of other advanced countries appeared to have closed, which may indicate that the disturbances linked to the Brexit transition period are dissipating.' Official UK figures are prepared by the ONS, NOT the OBR. My figures do not make any reference to fuel nor do they support your claim that UK trade is still below pre-pandemic levels. In fact, they directly contradict it. As usual, you posted a load of biased shit without understanding any of it and when you have been pulled up on it you are desperately trying to justify/deflect from your position by posting even more shit that you don't understand. At some point it changes from you being thick and ignorant to you being a liar."

[Side of Ham]

"I'm not arguing for anything, I'm trying to show that there is no fixing of the NHS and bank staff is just a part of the problem. You get rid of bank, you will just make an already understaffed situation WITH bank staff worse. I don't know if this is true but I have heard the NHS buys up loads of property for it to just sit there unused.......what about investigations into those companies if it's true?"

[Darlo Debs]

"Your own source pointed to a decrease in areas apart from fuel, there for all.to see. Figures the OBR use are ones the government uses for economic forecasting are they not? Seem.to remember ignoring OBR data got Kwaai and Liz into.a spot of bother."

[Mike Oxsaw]

So what the fuck are you arguing for - more of the same or a root & branch change in the way the NHS works?

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

"Darlo Debs 11:28 Tue Apr 9 If it came from the OBR it means nothing. They aren't responsible for producing trade figures. If you post that garbage you posted into Google it takes you to the ECB. And in any case, it takes no account of services or 2023. The original article you posted is a biased opinion piece, based on a Remain distortion of old data. It appears to include fuel at some points when it suits and at other points goes to great lengths to exclude it. Basically, it's a load of shit. The numbers are the numbers. Stop lying."

[Side of Ham]

"Oxsaw, you do know even with bank staff they are still understaffed‚Ķ.so this makes the job a cսnt and many are in fear of fucking up because of not being able to do two tasks at once so they make the choice to do what‚Äôs best for them and not a fucked up institution over decades‚Ķ..there is even a thriving blame culture going on‚Ķ."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"..."" it's difficult to hand over on some tasks to the next shift knowing they may not be back on the same ward or back there for long enough period.""... Then clearly employing agency nurses is not a suitable solution for either the trust, hospital, ward and...err...oh, yes, the patient/taxpayer. And doesn't a hand-over imply the here & now, sharing current patient notes & record; stack-all to do with 24 hours down the line."

[Side of Ham]

"Oxsaw, I doubt as it stands the NHS will ever be able to compete with Private as their set up is much less based on post op after care….they pick and choose their operations/procedures to do so people are in and out within 24hrs etc. This cuts out a lot of the stress of what is the NHS version of nursing."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"Darlo Debs 8:05 Tue Apr 9 It's really quite simple. I don't want EXTRA, duplicated or unnecessary bureaucracy. There will clearly be someone within the NHS managing the recruitment agencies, who, themselves will be putting a mark-up (to cover their own costs & profit expectations) on the nurses they supply. The agencies themselves will have their own administration, again adding to overall, end-user costs. That's two additional layers of administration that can be cleared out of the process right there. If nurses are leaving due to the difference in working conditions between agency & directly employed - even though they're doing the same jobs - then those conditions need to be addressed such that nurses don't feel the need to go private. As has been suggested, those conditions will never be addressed because certain groups of influential people are making a nice little earner out of the way current things are. Is the claim that using nurses in the NHS is not a core business function?"

[Mike Oxsaw]

"Darlo Debs 8:05 Tue Apr 9 It's really quite simple. I don't want EXTRA, duplicated or unnecessary bureaucracy. There will clearly be someone within the NHS managing the recruitment agencies, who, themselves will be putting a mark-up (to cover their own costs & profit expectations) on the nurses they supply. The agencies themselves will have their own administration, again adding to overall, end-user costs. That's two additional layers of administration that can be cleared out of the process right there. If nurses are leaving due to the difference in working conditions between agency & directly employed - even though they're doing the same jobs - then those conditions need to be addressed such that nurses don't feel the need to go private. As has been suggested, those conditions will never be addressed because certain groups of influential people are making a nice little earner out of the way current things are. Is the claim that using nurses in the NHS is not a core business function?"

[Side of Ham]

….oh and mostly they don’t get the same role & responsibilities as it’s difficult to hand over on some tasks to the next shift knowing they may not be back on the same ward or back there for long enough period. Most departments will run on some sort of continuity and bank staff are not that.

[Darlo Debs]

Yes but employing them to do bank shifts additionally to their normal.shifts would probably mean changes in contracts etc Would still be cheaper than using expensive agencies and mean that noneybsaved could be used to improve pay and conditions overall for front line staff.

[Side of Ham]

Oxsaw that’s why I put some left for good….

[Mike Oxsaw]

Not quite sure that there are enough private hospitals in the UK to employ all the NHS trained & qualified nurses that have left the NHS. Doesn not an agency nurse deployed in an NHS ward have the same roles & responsibilities as a directly employed nurse?

[Darlo Debs]

Who says the NHS don't organise their own recruitment? When it comes to cover for shifts both in hospital.and other units run by the NHS like residential.u it's run by private companies that would mean some extra bureaucracy Mike. So do you want bureaucracy or don't you? Pick.a side

[Mike Oxsaw]

"...""As long as demand outstrips availability""... What are the cumulative factors that drive both sides of that equation, no matter how ""insignificant"" any particular poster claims a single factor to be?"

[Side of Ham]

"Oxsaw they have their own recruitment but it's for new nurses......agencies are there because trained nurses had, had enough of the working conditions and left to go private where conditions are better or for good. In private shifts are better, equipment better etc. The NHS then had to pay through the nose to get them back into NHS hospitals on a better rate and less of the shit that comes with working under NHS conditions. Private Hospitals give an alternative environment to Nurse in."