Page 14 of 32
Graham Potter
Posted: 08 Jan 2025, 11:28
by stubbo
https://www.whufc.com/news/graham-potte ... head-coach
In the past he's favoured a 3-4-3 formation...hard to see how we can do that currently with only 3 senior CBs, one of whom is injured. He's also played wingers (Solly March as an example) in the wing back roles.
Typically when a 3-4-3 gets announced on a match day the manager is immediately described as being too negative, too cautious etc. I guess it depends on the composition of the 4.
He's given young players chances...hopefully that continues at West Ham.
Welcome Graham.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 09:02
by Manuel
threesixty wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:56
I think Guilherme's development has played second fiddle to the last managers desire to stay in his job!
Nah, that's just made up, trying too hard bollocks. If he had impressed in training or done better when he has been on the pitch we would have seen him more.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:57
by Manuel
Goddard fella - Maybe I, in your words, have written him off, based on no progress since he came in, and more so the law of averages will show that a kid coming over from South America to the PL just ain't going to be good or strong enough. He might be an exception, despite his slow start, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it. Why don't YOU put up a case as to why you think he might make it, rather than try to mock those with a real opinion. Or more likely, you're just one of these with a 'let's see what happens' 'opinion'. Forums would be pretty fucking boring if they were all full of limp wristed cowards like you.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:56
by threesixty
I think Guilherme's development has played second fiddle to the last managers desire to stay in his job!
Its the reason why Moyes didnt bring anyone through from youth over 4yrs.
You need the whole club to have a plan along with the manager of developing these youngsters.
Guilherme was worth up to 25m because he was part of a few players at Brazilian club
Palmeiras that included Endrick that went to Madrid, and I think Estavo who's still at the club. It's the type of transfer that Benfica or Porto would make and then that kid goes onto to Madrid or Milan.
We really need a system that develops players and not just "uses" them. I bet that we gave the example of Rice and how he became a 100m player under us as an incentive for players like Kudus and Guilherme. But that seems like a one off now.
To be the club we want to be, regularly in Europe etc.. you can't just buy ready made players. Even Madrid don't do that anymore. Why should we?
Maybe Potter's pedigree will change that. But way to early to be calling 18yr olds flops..being that they are you know... 18!
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:37
by Jean-Luc Paul Goddard
I just don't know how any of us can really judge Guilherme. 43 mins spread over 5 matches tells you nothing and for some reason he hasn't been playing with the u21s like Scarles has been, so there's nothing left to judge him on except how he is in training. I'm guessing the people who've already written him off have seen him get constantly tackled by a cone or something.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:30
by stubbo
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
stubbo wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:54
fraser wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:10
We've laid out about £5 million on him the rest is performance related add ons, a lot of these young Brazilians are sold on these terms... Tim Vickery said this when we signed him.
It's a small gamble in transfer terms with a big possible upside.
Exactly this. Unless you know the precise structure of the deal it's impossible to comment on if we should have done it or not, but it's clearly not what scuppered the Duran deal...that title rests with Sullivan who can find the 40m now but couldn't in the Summer.
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton. I appreciate that he won't have had the same level of competition during his development but at almost 19 he's hardly groundbreaking. I hope he works out but with the rumours of an imminent departure getting louder it seems unlikely
Much older than Lewis Skelly...well 7 months...and in a foreign land, doesn't speak the language, vastly different climate, new to the Club, etc.
And by your logic he's much, much younger than Scarles, Earthy....and has more 1st team game time under his belt than Lewis Orford...who's seen as the next Declan Rice.
And when he's been on the field he's looked alright.
Anyone writing him off really has no concept of player development. But this would be Sullivan all over....wants the ostentatious shiny bling now (well I guess he doesn't have long left) rather than to plant trees for tomorrow kids to enjoy the shade of (or whatever that saying is).
He's a young kid. Most kids his age are still in school. We owe it to him to protect his development...not just ship him off to Saudi and make him a scapegoat before he's even had a chance to demonstrate what he'll become.
He should be settling this year, going on loan next season, and then looking to play for us the season after. Same as Brighton do with their prospects. That Ibrahim Osman they bought that we wanted....no where near their first team yet...but he will be. They are just doing development the right way.
We seem to be expecting any kid we've signed to be the next Ronaldinho or something. Madness.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:29
by onsideman
Jean-Luc Paul Goddard" wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:00
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton.
What a ridiculous thing to say. He was born 7 months before Lewis-Skelly. You really think that's "much older"? They're both fucking 18. Also, bear in mind that, unlike the others you mention, he hasn't had years of growing up within the club's academy but instead has to adapt to a completely different language and culture, as well as style and quality of football. Absurd to expect him to shine in the Premier League already. He should have been loaned out to a lower league.
i stand by the fact that 1 month off 19 is not particularly young in modern football.
I did also acknowledge in my post that he hadn't had the benefit of the same developmental opportunities, but it is still just football.and he'd been in the academy of a top Brazilian side from the age of 11
Whether or not you think 7 months can be classified as "much", Lewis-Skelly is younger and was getting 8/10 ratings in the Premier League after 2 or 3 appearances, whereas, as someone else suggested on here, when he came on at Villa our boy looked like a competition winner.
Not your argument, I know, but as far as comparisons with when the 22 year old established Argentinian International, Tevez, came over... well...
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:16
by scott_d
Manuel wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:09
scott_d wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:03
Manuel wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:46
That's the way I see it, if he's not good enough to play at 19 will he be good enough at 20 or 21? No, IMO.
Ollie Scarles is 19 and has only just got his first Premier League start having been in and around the club for years (yes I know he played in the Europa / Conference a year or two back).
Guillerme, 19 next month, is having to adjust and settle in a new county having been here for only 6 months.
I think he is in and around the age that he needs to start showing promise, but my view is that he definitely deserves at least until the end of this season to see if he can make an impact in the first team.
Carlos Tevez was older and it took him a little while to settle. Everyone is different as to how quickly they adapt or even as to whether they can adapt at all.
Yea yea, pretty much anything can be rebutted can't it, especially on here. We didn't pay money for Scarles and he has, in your words, shown promise for a few years now. The Brazilian hasn't shown any promise. Now off you you go and argue this point as well.
It's a debate, with opinions, so yes people will disagree.
That's why some of our youngsters (and any youngsters of any club on that note) are kept on and don't fulfil potential and some are released and do.
It's difficult to judge someone at that age and sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong.
My opinion is that we should not give up on him so soon as he showed at his previous club that he is a good player so it could just take him a little time to settle.
Neither of us are wrong until we are wrong, just giving my view.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:09
by Manuel
scott_d wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:03
Manuel wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:46
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton. I appreciate that he won't have had the same level of competition during his development but at almost 19 he's hardly groundbreaking. I hope he works out but with the rumours of an imminent departure getting louder it seems unlikely
That's the way I see it, if he's not good enough to play at 19 will he be good enough at 20 or 21? No, IMO.
Ollie Scarles is 19 and has only just got his first Premier League start having been in and around the club for years (yes I know he played in the Europa / Conference a year or two back).
Guillerme, 19 next month, is having to adjust and settle in a new county having been here for only 6 months.
I think he is in and around the age that he needs to start showing promise, but my view is that he definitely deserves at least until the end of this season to see if he can make an impact in the first team.
Carlos Tevez was older and it took him a little while to settle. Everyone is different as to how quickly they adapt or even as to whether they can adapt at all.
Yea yea, pretty much anything can be rebutted can't it, especially on here. We didn't pay money for Scarles and he has, in your words, shown promise for a few years now. The Brazilian hasn't shown any promise. Now off you you go and argue this point as well.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:03
by scott_d
Manuel wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:46
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
stubbo wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:54
Exactly this. Unless you know the precise structure of the deal it's impossible to comment on if we should have done it or not, but it's clearly not what scuppered the Duran deal...that title rests with Sullivan who can find the 40m now but couldn't in the Summer.
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton. I appreciate that he won't have had the same level of competition during his development but at almost 19 he's hardly groundbreaking. I hope he works out but with the rumours of an imminent departure getting louder it seems unlikely
That's the way I see it, if he's not good enough to play at 19 will he be good enough at 20 or 21? No, IMO.
Ollie Scarles is 19 and has only just got his first Premier League start having been in and around the club for years (yes I know he played in the Europa / Conference a year or two back).
Guillerme, 19 next month, is having to adjust and settle in a new county having been here for only 6 months.
I think he is in and around the age that he needs to start showing promise, but my view is that he definitely deserves at least until the end of this season to see if he can make an impact in the first team.
Carlos Tevez was older and it took him a little while to settle. Everyone is different as to how quickly they adapt or even as to whether they can adapt at all.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 08:00
by Jean-Luc Paul Goddard
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton.
What a ridiculous thing to say. He was born 7 months before Lewis-Skelly. You really think that's "much older"? They're both fucking 18. Also, bear in mind that, unlike the others you mention, he hasn't had years of growing up within the club's academy but instead has to adapt to a completely different language and culture, as well as style and quality of football. Absurd to expect him to shine in the Premier League already. He should have been loaned out to a lower league.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 07:46
by Manuel
onsideman wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 07:24
stubbo wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:54
fraser wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:10
We've laid out about £5 million on him the rest is performance related add ons, a lot of these young Brazilians are sold on these terms... Tim Vickery said this when we signed him.
It's a small gamble in transfer terms with a big possible upside.
Exactly this. Unless you know the precise structure of the deal it's impossible to comment on if we should have done it or not, but it's clearly not what scuppered the Duran deal...that title rests with Sullivan who can find the 40m now but couldn't in the Summer.
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton. I appreciate that he won't have had the same level of competition during his development but at almost 19 he's hardly groundbreaking. I hope he works out but with the rumours of an imminent departure getting louder it seems unlikely
That's the way I see it, if he's not good enough to play at 19 will he be good enough at 20 or 21? No, IMO.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 07:26
by goose
Ladysmith wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 18:40
Nothing I have seen so far that tells me that he will be a top manager.
What were you expecting to see from the manager who’s been in charge less than a week and had taken about 3 training sessions?
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 07:24
by onsideman
stubbo wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:54
fraser wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:10
dealcanvey wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 13:33
Club spending 25 million on a player I expect them to be a decent addition to the squad right away. Since when have we been able to spend that amount of money on a player and give them a couple of years to come good?
When Sunderland sell Jobe Bellingham (same age) for the amount of money we bought this kid for as a comparison you can start to grasp how poor a signing this lad is going to be.
We've laid out about £5 million on him the rest is performance related add ons, a lot of these young Brazilians are sold on these terms... Tim Vickery said this when we signed him.
It's a small gamble in transfer terms with a big possible upside.
Exactly this. Unless you know the precise structure of the deal it's impossible to comment on if we should have done it or not, but it's clearly not what scuppered the Duran deal...that title rests with Sullivan who can find the 40m now but couldn't in the Summer.
Regardless of cost, he's not really that young..Much older than Nwaneri or Lewis-Skelly and older than the likes of Archie Gray and Hinshelwood at Brighton. I appreciate that he won't have had the same level of competition during his development but at almost 19 he's hardly groundbreaking. I hope he works out but with the rumours of an imminent departure getting louder it seems unlikely
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 06:54
by stubbo
fraser wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 06:10
dealcanvey wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 13:33
Club spending 25 million on a player I expect them to be a decent addition to the squad right away. Since when have we been able to spend that amount of money on a player and give them a couple of years to come good?
When Sunderland sell Jobe Bellingham (same age) for the amount of money we bought this kid for as a comparison you can start to grasp how poor a signing this lad is going to be.
We've laid out about £5 million on him the rest is performance related add ons, a lot of these young Brazilians are sold on these terms... Tim Vickery said this when we signed him.
It's a small gamble in transfer terms with a big possible upside.
Exactly this. Unless you know the precise structure of the deal it's impossible to comment on if we should have done it or not, but it's clearly not what scuppered the Duran deal...that title rests with Sullivan who can find the 40m now but couldn't in the Summer.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 16 Jan 2025, 06:10
by fraser
dealcanvey wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 13:33
Club spending 25 million on a player I expect them to be a decent addition to the squad right away. Since when have we been able to spend that amount of money on a player and give them a couple of years to come good?
When Sunderland sell Jobe Bellingham (same age) for the amount of money we bought this kid for as a comparison you can start to grasp how poor a signing this lad is going to be.
We've laid out about £5 million on him the rest is performance related add ons, a lot of these young Brazilians are sold on these terms... Tim Vickery said this when we signed him.
It's a small gamble in transfer terms with a big possible upside.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 23:03
by Massive Attack
I don't think it's fair to write off the young lads ability who's not been here all that long with so much to adapt too on and off the pitch. My issue with the signing was how unwise it was paying so much for him (£19.5M) in the first place if he isn't going to be anywhere near ready for this or possibly next season as well and it appears it hampered our chances of putting that kind of money towards Duran. We needed ready made Forwards to come in to the side to do the business, especially for that kind of outlay as per The Times report..
West Ham paid £19.5million for him with a potential £6million in add-ons. There was also a 20 per cent sell-on clause. The outlay had an impact on the club’s transfer budget when they wanted to try to sign a striker later in the window. They were unable to afford Jhon Durán as Aston Villa wanted £40million for the forward.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 19:57
by twoleftfeet
Ladysmith wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 18:40
Nothing I have seen so far that tells me that he will be a top manager.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 18:40
by Ladysmith
Nothing I have seen so far that tells me that he will be a top manager.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 18:07
by El Scorchio
Takashi Miike" wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 17:55
you know who pushes info to that site? he's about 4ft tall, and likes dressing up in military uniforms. wake up you dozy cսnt
What a pathetic snidey article that is.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 17:58
by dealcanvey
The meltdown you lot are having.
it won’t be our last shit signing.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 17:55
by Takashi Miike
you know who pushes info to that site? he's about 4ft tall, and likes dressing up in military uniforms. wake up you dozy cսnt
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 17:52
by twoleftfeet
These stories are made up for click bait, it's all a load of old bollocks.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 17:50
by dealcanvey
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 17:09
by El Scorchio
Gank wrote: ↑15 Jan 2025, 16:55
25m is not a lot of money for a player of great potential.
It would be a tiny amount of money if you thought he would already be among our best midfielders.
Anyway, if as you suggest, the time between a player being signed and playing in the first team is a barometer of whether we should have signed him at all, then how come Irving is playing?
I will wager with you right now that Guilherme will go further in the game than Irving, except possibly in caps given their nationalities.
Exactly. LG was always one for the future. It was clear. Expecting him to be a superstar now or calling it a failed deal now is so premature.
Re: Graham Potter (announced)
Posted: 15 Jan 2025, 16:55
by Gank
25m is not a lot of money for a player of great potential.
It would be a tiny amount of money if you thought he would already be among our best midfielders.
Anyway, if as you suggest, the time between a player being signed and playing in the first team is a barometer of whether we should have signed him at all, then how come Irving is playing?
I will wager with you right now that Guilherme will go further in the game than Irving, except possibly in caps given their nationalities.
