The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[Pub Bigot]

Best interpretation of team Trump v Team Zelenskyy I’ve seen so far: 

- Zelensky: Give me more money and weapons.

- Trump: No, we need a ceasefire first and mineral guarantees, so the USA has an economic reason to be involved.

- Zelensky: No, I won't negotiate with Putin. Putin is pure evil and won't abide by the ceasefire.

- Trump: Well, you need a ceasefire first, because we aren't going to give you more money and military equipment, if you don't agree to our terms.

- Zelensky: Give me more money and weapons.

- Vance: We're trying to end this war through diplomacy. Giving you more money and weapons just prolongs the conflict.

- Zelensky: You don't know shit about what's going on in Ukraine. Your diplomacy with Russia won't work.

- Vance: You're losing, you retard. You're losing so badly that you're pulling strangers off the street and pushing them to the frontline.

- Zelensky: You don't know shit. You will feel the disaster of this war in your country eventually.

- Trump: Don't tell us what we're going to feel you little monkey. You don't have the fucking cards. You're nothing without us. And you're the dumbass that keeps saying you don't want a ceasefire.

- Zelensky: We've been fighting this war alone for 3 years.

- Trump: You didn't fight this war alone, retard. We gave you hundreds of billions of dollars in cash, aid and military equipment. Russia would've steamrolled your ass in 2 weeks if we didn't back you up. If you don't want our diplomacy, then go fight the war by yourself, asshole.

[Nutsin]

you can almost hear Nutsin rubbing his hands in glee at the thought of freezing pensioners

You stupid cսnt! My Dad is 81 he lives in Crays Hill Essex, next to Billericay. There is nothing funny or good about it. 

[Nutsin]

You’ve lost me, why exactly is the national debt going to explode? Why is the U.K. going bankrupt?

Where is the money coming from to fund the war once the US stops paying? The US pays the lion share. That’s about to end. Someone’s gotta pay it, unless you want to see the Russians advance. You’ll see, you can’t afford to keep the pensioners warm in the winter as it stands.  Something’s gonna have to give.

As a single country the US pays the lions share, but Europe collectively has given more humanitarian aid while the two a broadly similar for military aid.

it’s February now and no pensioners have frozen to death. The revised spending in the military has been taken out of foreign aid so the tax payer isn’t any worse off.

you really do have a taste for melodrama.

 

 

Melodrama? Perhaps, we’ll see. Gotta fully fund NATO and cover the loss of US funding Ukraine that has helped provide the current stalemate. Although the winter has probably helped to stall the Russians advancement. As the weather improves we will get a better measure of how bad the Russian military is. Hopefully they are too badly damaged to advance. If they do then the narrative changes to where is Putin gonna stop.

Starmer said that the UK agree they do have to start paying their full obligation to NATO and that will commence in 2027. How long is it gonna take to get the extra Billions to fund the war? One would think it would be a priority.

[Hammer I am]

you can almost hear Nutsin rubbing his hands in glee at the thought of freezing pensioners

[Mr Anon]

Yeah, well your bill just went up, by a lot! Good luck with that. Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for the UK to go bankrupt or how long before UK troops are involved in fighting the Russians. Even now there are still European countries that are not paying their 2.5% requirement for NATO funding. 

In the meantime enjoy all the additional cuts in services and watch the National debt explode and inflation to kill your pay check.

You’ve lost me, why exactly is the national debt going to explode? Why is the U.K. going bankrupt?

Where is the money coming from to fund the war once the US stops paying? The US pays the lion share. That’s about to end. Someone’s gotta pay it, unless you want to see the Russians advance. You’ll see, you can’t afford to keep the pensioners warm in the winter as it stands.  Something’s gonna have to give.

counties happy to support their ally will pay what they can and no more, no one is going to bankrupt themselves you silly twat.

[goose]

Yeah, well your bill just went up, by a lot! Good luck with that. Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for the UK to go bankrupt or how long before UK troops are involved in fighting the Russians. Even now there are still European countries that are not paying their 2.5% requirement for NATO funding. 

In the meantime enjoy all the additional cuts in services and watch the National debt explode and inflation to kill your pay check.

You’ve lost me, why exactly is the national debt going to explode? Why is the U.K. going bankrupt?

Where is the money coming from to fund the war once the US stops paying? The US pays the lion share. That’s about to end. Someone’s gotta pay it, unless you want to see the Russians advance. You’ll see, you can’t afford to keep the pensioners warm in the winter as it stands.  Something’s gonna have to give.

As a single country the US pays the lions share, but Europe collectively has given more humanitarian aid while the two a broadly similar for military aid.

it’s February now and no pensioners have frozen to death. The revised spending in the military has been taken out of foreign aid so the tax payer isn’t any worse off.

you really do have a taste for melodrama.

[Nutsin]

The UK is already paying for it, be it through redistribution of public spending or energy prices/inflation and indirectly borrowing rates.

Yeah, well your bill just went up, by a lot! Good luck with that. Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for the UK to go bankrupt or how long before UK troops are involved in fighting the Russians. Even now there are still European countries that are not paying their 2.5% requirement for NATO funding. 

In the meantime enjoy all the additional cuts in services and watch the National debt explode and inflation to kill your pay check.

You’ve lost me, why exactly is the national debt going to explode? Why is the U.K. going bankrupt?

Where is the money coming from to fund the war once the US stops paying? The US pays the lion share. That’s about to end. Someone’s gotta pay it, unless you want to see the Russians advance. You’ll see, you can’t afford to keep the pensioners warm in the winter as it stands.  Something’s gonna have to give.

[goose]

 

Anon, It’s Gonna be interesting to see how long your Bravado lasts when you have to foot the bill for this war.

Funny how everyone just expects the U S Taxpayer to keep footing the bill to the tune of 100’s of billions of dollars.

We have $36 Trillion in debt and we are paying over a Trillion per year in interest on that debt. Let’s see how long it takes for Russia to take over the rest of the country without the US taxpayer funding it.

Good luck with that you entitled cսnt! Your life is about to get a lot fucking tougher!

The UK is already paying for it, be it through redistribution of public spending or energy prices/inflation and indirectly borrowing rates.

Yeah, well your bill just went up, by a lot! Good luck with that. Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for the UK to go bankrupt or how long before UK troops are involved in fighting the Russians. Even now there are still European countries that are not paying their 2.5% requirement for NATO funding. 

In the meantime enjoy all the additional cuts in services and watch the National debt explode and inflation to kill your pay check.

You’ve lost me, why exactly is the national debt going to explode? Why is the U.K. going bankrupt?

[Nutsin]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar




 

 

Anon, It’s Gonna be interesting to see how long your Bravado lasts when you have to foot the bill for this war.

Funny how everyone just expects the U S Taxpayer to keep footing the bill to the tune of 100’s of billions of dollars.

We have $36 Trillion in debt and we are paying over a Trillion per year in interest on that debt. Let’s see how long it takes for Russia to take over the rest of the country without the US taxpayer funding it.

Good luck with that you entitled cսnt! Your life is about to get a lot fucking tougher!

The UK is already paying for it, be it through redistribution of public spending or energy prices/inflation and indirectly borrowing rates.

Yeah, well your bill just went up, by a lot! Good luck with that. Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for the UK to go bankrupt or how long before UK troops are involved in fighting the Russians. Even now there are still European countries that are not paying their 2.5% requirement for NATO funding. 

In the meantime enjoy all the additional cuts in services and watch the National debt explode and inflation to kill your pay check.

[goose]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar



 

 

Anon, It’s Gonna be interesting to see how long your Bravado lasts when you have to foot the bill for this war.

Funny how everyone just expects the U S Taxpayer to keep footing the bill to the tune of 100’s of billions of dollars.

We have $36 Trillion in debt and we are paying over a Trillion per year in interest on that debt. Let’s see how long it takes for Russia to take over the rest of the country without the US taxpayer funding it.

Good luck with that you entitled cսnt! Your life is about to get a lot fucking tougher!

The UK is already paying for it, be it through redistribution of public spending or energy prices/inflation and indirectly borrowing rates.

[ironsofcanada]

 It stated last week when Trump called Zelensky a dictator.

It didn't start last week.  Zelensky was campaigning in the States with Trump's opposition in the autumn.

The hope was you put those away to get a deal.

(The "dicatator" comment was stupid and not good in anyway but some background.  America takes its Constitutionally mandated elections very seriously.  It has held them during a number of wars, including 2, I can think of on their soil - War of 1812 and the Civil War.  Zelensky has cancelled his. That is what is being the dictator comment comes from, in my view.)

[Nutsin]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar


 

 

 

Anon, It’s Gonna be interesting to see how long your Bravado lasts when you have to foot the bill for this war.

Funny how everyone just expects the U S Taxpayer to keep footing the bill to the tune of 100’s of billions of dollars.

We have $36 Trillion in debt and we are paying over a Trillion per year in interest on that debt. Let’s see how long it takes for Russia to take over the rest of the country without the US taxpayer funding it.

Good luck with that you entitled cսnt! Your life is about to get a lot fucking tougher!

[Pi Alpha Nu]

The big orange man baby and his cսnt of a vice president have forgotten who started the disrespect. It stated last week when Trump called Zelensky a dictator.

[ironsofcanada]

Behind closed doors would be a good fucking start, on top of that vocal support, financial aid, training, and sanctions on Russia, it's not much but it's something. Putin has effectively been told he can do what he wants, and US will turn a blind eye.

So you are critical of Zelensky because the US tried multiple other times to do it behind closed doors. 


So your contention is that US sets up a big economic interest in the Ukraine, gets some their money back (big win economically but more so in domestic politcs) then Russia invades again and they "turn a blind eye"?

[Mr Anon]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar



 

 

Do you see any better way to handle this then?  Yes Trump is a blowhard and says some things that are taken out of context  and offend the wallflower community, but I make him right on not wanting to endlessly guarantee security of what is a non NATO country with nothing in return and allowing us to get sucked into future conflicts and wars which is a movie we've seen many times before. Let's see how the European Nations will handle Putin, maybe they can bankroll this war in perpetuity.

"Do you see any better way to handle this then? "

Behind closed doors would be a good fucking start, on top of that vocal support, financial aid, training, and sanctions on Russia, it's not much but it's something. Putin has effectively been told he can do what he wants, and US will turn a blind eye.

[northbankfrank]

Unfair to criticise Trump or Vance for anything they say or do.  They are clearly Putin's organ grinding monkeys.

[ironsofcanada]

There was absolutely no version of this where a deal would have been made.  

 

 

Complete rubbish.

The States tried two other times, once with Sec. Bessent, and once with Rubio and Vance.  Both times Zelensky said he would sign it later in the press.

If what you said was true, Zelesky was lying repeatedly and came to get something different in the moment.   Then he just plain lost in a live negotiation where he came in trying to be deceitful.

[nychammer]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar


 

 

 

Do you see any better way to handle this then?  Yes Trump is a blowhard and says some things that are taken out of context  and offend the wallflower community, but I make him right on not wanting to endlessly guarantee security of what is a non NATO country with nothing in return and allowing us to get sucked into future conflicts and wars which is a movie we've seen many times before. Let's see how the European Nations will handle Putin, maybe they can bankroll this war in perpetuity.

[Hammer I am]

 This was a setup, as clear as day, they had a plan to humiliate him. They spent the entire meeting goading Zelensky with shit like 'we would have had a deal by now if he didn't have so much hatred in his heart', poking fun at his attire, and pretending like they are the first administration that has even attempted diplomacy in this war.They were waiting for the moment Zelensky made even the smallest pushback, so they could throw in the 'its disrespectful' bullshit, when they had been disrespecting Ukraine the entire time, and justify abandoning Ukraine.There was absolutely no version of this where a deal would have been made.  Zelensky was there to try and win them over for continued aid

This was another bonespur moment for trump, a weaselly excuse to avoid defending democracy 

[ironsofcanada]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar



 

I would again ask if you watched the whole thing.  Most of it is quite cordial.  Then I would ask you what changed?


If you believe that we can't negotiate with Putin, it's a valid view.  But if so, Zelensky should have never been there.  Correct?

A lot of stupid things said in the heat there but it comes down to whether this deal is good for the Ukraine. If it is not, then I direct you above. 

One of the stupid things was trying to change the deal in a what amounts to a "smile and wave". 

[Mr Anon]

Some of you lot's refusal to criticise that absolute circus displayed by Trump and Vance is telling, obviously Nutsin is a moronic lost cause but some of need to step back and think about what you're defending.

And all this negotiating with Putin business is naive at best. He must be laughing his head off, all it will do is legitimise the territory he's already annexed and allow him to regroup and get ready to invade Ukraine for a THIRD time. If any of you think he can be reasoned with and will be happy to stop then i worry about your gullibility.

lastly saying Trump is refreshing because he is candid and says exactly what he means then i've got news for you, he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying, how could he? Ukraine started the war? Zelensky is a dictator?  The man is either a moron or a pathological liar
 

[nychammer]

There's 3 ways Ukraine situation can go:

1. Status Quo. US and allies continue to support Ukraine in defending themselves in a never ending war with Russia. This has already and could still go on for many years with many more lives lost

2. World War 3. US and allies put boots on the ground in the Region and actively attack Russian troops. Nobody wants that and it could end badly to put it mildly

3. Negotiated Peace. As unsavory as it may be to Ukraine, talk to Putin. Ukraine may have to cede territory (Crimea ?) to Russia in exchange for a peaceful co-existence. Ukraine can be assured of help and support if its required, but it dosen't come for free.
 

[ironsofcanada]

It wasn’t just the US. Macron and Starmer have both expected it after meetings this week.  With France holding mineral talks themselves since October. They also stated it was Ukraine that proposed a deal to begin with.

https://kyivindependent.com/france-has- ... ster-says/

Zelensky has obviously got cold feet as he hadn’t got specific details of the security guarantees in return, but seems to have burned his bridges.

Acknowledged by their own interviews in the media since, people like Susan Rice and Vindman were in Zelensky's ear. (Possibly Blinken and Nuland as well)

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

I’m not sure why any of that was done in front of the camera before they had an agreement.

The US thought it had an agreement. 

But to say one side got bullied when it became a live "litigation," is like  saying one team destroyed another in a live football match.

Edit: so you are essentially blaming Zelensky's approach with that question.

 

 

It wasn’t just the US. Macron and Starmer have both expected it after meetings this week.  With France holding mineral talks themselves since October. They also stated it was Ukraine that proposed a deal to begin with.

https://kyivindependent.com/france-has- ... ster-says/

Zelensky has obviously got cold feet as he hadn’t got specific details of the security guarantees in return, but seems to have burned his bridges.

[ironsofcanada]

I think Trump & Vance were very disrespectful to a man who is essentially doing his utmost to save his country (in a few different ways).

it’s very easy to sit across from him and tell him what he should & shouldn’t be doing when you’re in a position of power. He stood up in front of congress to say thank you, and has done many times on the world stage. To keep saying he hasn’t said thanks is ridiculous.

 

 

The "thanks" thing is true.  But honestly is a side issue. 

The big thing was he kept intimating that you can't do diplomacy with Putin and then essentially outright said it.

Based on that he tried to change the deal live and got smacked down verbally for it.  He tried to make it a verbal contest and lost. 

"Utmost to save his country," and his position.  Like Trump and Vance were doing.