Progress Under Potter. ?

[Cerveza Para Mi]

Pub conversation with one or two people on Sunday and the conversation came roun d to West Ham. It got me thinking about whether we've made any progress under Potter and, tbh, I reckon our away performances have improved but the results haven't, if that makes sense.  We've played 7 away games under Potter and only won one of them. Albeit against 1 of the best 2 teams we've played away since he arrived. We've drawn 2 and lost 4, with 6 scored and 9 conceded.  Performance wise imo apart from the Wolves game, where I thought we were crap, I don't think we've played too badly in the others. We were also, again only imo, unlucky to lose at Villa in the cup match, Chelsea at the Bridge and arguably deserved a point at Anfield.

But at home under Potter we've been bloody awful.  We've won 2 games from the 7 played. A win against Fulham which, based on performance alkone I don't think we deserved to, and a dull , easy victory against Leicester.  There were a frew decent moments against Bournemouth, imo the only home game under Potter where the football, has been remotely enjoyable, but the rest of the games have been pretty damn awful. Two wins from 7 games against teams, Newcastle excluded, who we wouldn't consider top bracket, two draws and 3 defeats. 8 goals score (3 in oine match) and 9 conceded.  And imo not one performance that could be considered a good one.

That, for me, is a pretty damning statistic.  Potter's high point so far has been the victory at The Emirates but for me our best performance of the season came at Newcastle under Lopetegui.  Also the only home game which I felt was enjoyable to watch was the 4-1 win against Ipswich. Of course I enjoyed the win against Manchester United but, let's be honest, they should have been out of sight by half time.

So have we made progress ?  Not imo. In fact , hard as it might be to believe, I think we've actually gone backwards.  Cards on the tabe because I know there's been a lot of discussion about whether performance or results are the most important, I'm someone who puts results top of the pile. Give me a shithoused 1-0 win over a swashbuckling 3-3 draw any day of the week. I want my team to entertain, of course I do, but above all I want them to WIN.  So looking at the hard facts 3 of our 5 home wins (in itself pretty pathetic isn't it?) have come under Lopetegui. And he also presided over 3 of our 4 away victories, although credit to Potter his sole away win was at Arsenal.

Progress ?  Not inb my book I'm afraid.

[Massive Attack]

he has been dealt a very bad hand with what he inherited so in fairness, I'll give him half of next season.

Sorry but that is a myth. He walked in to a situation where we were 14th midway in to a season with so many points up for grabs just 5 points off 10th and with still a chance for getting in to Europe and a free hit in the FA Cup to hopefully enjoy a Cup run. He was also backed to get his main Striker in the January window and was able to recall Ward-Prowse. 

Everyone also welcomed him with open arms with many blowing smoke up his arris that he could do no wrong. The support bought in to him believing a lot of the hype that surrounded him in the Media and wasn't being resisted. To then end up 17th in both the League and form table, out of the Cup straight away whilst playing mind numbing overly defensive Football with so many decent attacking players he was able to select from shows just what a hopeless fraud he is. There was zero pressure on him and this is what he serves up for everyone who gave him full support in the Boardroom, fans and player's alike..

To then award him a calendar year to get his act together would be a joke. If we still aint firing by the end of October off the back of this free-hit pitiful half a season audition having a good look at everything, then he's got to be launched from the top of the giant helter-skelter outside the ground. 

[Eerie Decent]

And we're 18th in the form table.

[mallard]

There’s only 2 points that separate 13th and 17th place

[Eerie Decent]

It's not the lack of progress we have to worry about. Some people are clearly confused.

It's the fucking decline. We have become on par with Southampton, Ipswich & Leicester since he took over. I'm not sure there's ever been 3 worse teams in this league at the same time, and we would've been fighting relegation with them had Lopetegui not got enough points previously.

Still, let's just shrug our shoulders and worry about what's fair on Graham Potter. That seems to be the most important thing.

I lost count of the people saying Amorim was a proper manager on here and would sort the Mancs out and that's who we should have gone for, they are now worse under him than Ten Hag. 

Emery at Villa now, Nuno at Forest, are examples of letting managers go to early from their previous jobs. 

Man Utd I won't bother discussing, but you could argue with Emery & Nuno, the clubs did get better once they left.

The flip side to that argument is Wolves & Everton, both got new managers with squads everyone would have said were shitter than ours, and we were performing better than both those clubs, Potter takes over, they've both over taken us, and we're now on a par with 3 of the shittest teams you'll ever see in the Prem.

By the by, not too concerned what happens at other clubs, because there's nuance to everything. At West Ham, this guy came in when we were 13th/14th, and we thought that was under-performing then, we're now 17th and our form is relegation stuff. We are the worst team for chances created & shots on goal. He's turned Jarrod Bowen into Jim Bowen.

But yeah, big shrug. Let's give him a chance. Might even pick up another win before the season ends.

[fraser]

It's not the lack of progress we have to worry about. Some people are clearly confused.

It's the fucking decline. We have become on par with Southampton, Ipswich & Leicester since he took over. I'm not sure there's ever been 3 worse teams in this league at the same time, and we would've been fighting relegation with them had Lopetegui not got enough points previously.

Still, let's just shrug our shoulders and worry about what's fair on Graham Potter. That seems to be the most important thing.

I lost count of the people saying Amorim was a proper manager on here and would sort the Mancs out and that's who we should have gone for, they are now worse under him than Ten Hag. 

Emery at Villa now, Nuno at Forest, are examples of letting managers go to early from their previous jobs. 

Valid points, but the managers you've mentioned all have previous better records than Potter has. 

So the point would have been more valid with Lopetegui who has previously had success at another club. Not saying it's impossible he turns it around but he's averaging a goal a game in our league and a win every 5 games odd, he just seems to have carried that on here. 

[Council Scum]

It's not the lack of progress we have to worry about. Some people are clearly confused.

It's the fucking decline. We have become on par with Southampton, Ipswich & Leicester since he took over. I'm not sure there's ever been 3 worse teams in this league at the same time, and we would've been fighting relegation with them had Lopetegui not got enough points previously.

Still, let's just shrug our shoulders and worry about what's fair on Graham Potter. That seems to be the most important thing.

I lost count of the people saying Amorim was a proper manager on here and would sort the Mancs out and that's who we should have gone for, they are now worse under him than Ten Hag. 

Emery at Villa now, Nuno at Forest, are examples of letting managers go to early from their previous jobs. 

[Eerie Decent]

It's not the lack of progress we have to worry about. Some people are clearly confused.

It's the fucking decline. We have become on par with Southampton, Ipswich & Leicester since he took over. I'm not sure there's ever been 3 worse teams in this league at the same time, and we would've been fighting relegation with them had Lopetegui not got enough points previously.

Still, let's just shrug our shoulders and worry about what's fair on Graham Potter. That seems to be the most important thing.

[Gank]

Just watch Antonio become our main striker again at 35, and Potter wax lyrical about him being like a new signing. We're fucked.

That won't happen.

[Gank]

All of the reasons proposed to keep Potter around can and should have been afforded to Lopetegui, but since we pulled the trigger early on that and it didn't work, we need to learn our lesson from that and trust Potter with what Lopetegui wasn't.

It's Lopetegui I feel sorry for, what must he be thinking now? But we are where we are so let's not do it again, but keep in mind that we afforded Grant too much time so back the man whilst he is the manager but don't drag it out too long if it doesn't improve after changes are made in the summer.

I certainly don't think we can risk getting rid of 9 players before securing at least 5 replacements first, with the squad already shallow. The accounts are going to have to be very carefully prepared for sliding the budgets around for every probability of each player purchased, sold or paid off. If it wasn't for the regulations, with our good credit we could have got first team players in, made the existing firsts the backups and looked to get rid of the third choices afterwards and loaned out the younger prospects again but I don't think we can do that without jeopardising the regulations for wages and profits over the forthcoming season so Ainsworth is going to have to earn his money with some real magic and Potter has to plan out some expedited development for young fringe players.

I personally don't really trust them to do that, but being sensible, we're going to have to trust them to do that.

[David LE]

Just watch Antonio become our main striker again at 35, and Potter wax lyrical about him being like a new signing. We're fucked.

[fraser]

I think that's a reasonable assumption based upon how he used him. 

Is it, I don't think so as he played Kudus there... So he didn't hate him at all, what a bizarre claim. 

Agree to disagree then. Barely a handful of starts, invariably hooked (usually to the frustration of rhe support, clearly evidenced by the booing) or slung on when chasing the game after the die of the game was cast. I know what I saw.

 

 

OK but it's just a weird assumption that because he wasn't first choice behind an £85 million rated player and the crowd were frustrated by his lack of use can only mean he hated him.. He was very ineffective in those games he was hooked too.

I also would have liked to see him start more, I just never once thought it was because he hated him and now you've put forward your argument I still don't. 

[goose]

zero fucking progress.
fuck watching the shit he serves up for another 6 to 9 months.

[only1billybonds]

Let him have his own window, off load some of the unwanted players and see where we are at Christmas. If we are struggling in the bottom 4 or 5 then the calls for him to be replaced will only get louder. But as CS says, he has been dealt a very bad hand with what he inherited so in fairness, I'll give him half of next season.

[onsideman]

Lopetegui hated Summerville? 

I think that's a reasonable assumption based upon how he used him. 

Is it, I don't think so as he played Kudus there... So he didn't hate him at all, what a bizarre claim. 

Agree to disagree then. Barely a handful of starts, invariably hooked (usually to the frustration of rhe support, clearly evidenced by the booing) or slung on when chasing the game after the die of the game was cast. I know what I saw.

[ATHammer]

If the utube talking heads are to be believed the summer of discontent has begun. At various times it is suggested that Potter spoke to Angel Gomes twice. It is also suggested that we made a derisory offer earlier this year, subsequently increased, both offers were rejected. Under the heading of "West Ham receive humbling reality check" it is stated that "He has no interest in joining the club." And this despite our charismatic coach allegedly speaking to the player and/or his advisors twice.
So, role out Sullivan "working tirelessly" and achieving fuck all except Salthouse/McKay/Silkman bargain bucket non-achievers.
A string of names who either fall over because of derisory offers or simply do not want to know because there is nothing in the West Ham Project to entice them. No quality players, they have fucked off, no quality football, Potter may attract Adam Webster, whoop di doo! He also attracted Ferguson and look how that worked out.
Dunno about progress I think groundhog day seems more appropriate.   

[Council Scum]

Feel a bit sorry for Potter, it's been nearly 2 season of decline under Moyes and then the awful transfer window with JLo and was asked to turn it around with no real transfer window, a lop sided squad, as very tired looking Bowen and with Antonio out injured, no real attacking threat. 

I've been disappointed and I'm struggling to see any positives at the minute, that said, he is very highly rated by the coaches, staff and players at the club, which is a good sign. 

Happy to give him this summer and take it from there. 

[fraser]

Lopetegui hated Summerville? 

I think that's a reasonable assumption based upon how he used him. 

Is it, I don't think so as he played Kudus there... So he didn't hate him at all, what a bizarre claim. 

[onsideman]

Lopetegui hated Summerville? 

I think that's a reasonable assumption based upon how he used him. 

[fraser]

Lopetegui hated Summerville? 

[onsideman]

I don't think anyone in their right mind could claim any  progress whatsoever, but as infuriating and underwhelming as he can be, the injury to Antonio - who can be a disruptor - and to Summerville - who Lopetegui hated but who showed more in his only half under Potter than Soler did in any game prior or since - havent helped offensively.

Let's not forget that Lopetegui benefitted from fewer days lost to injury across the squad than any other manager in the entire division. 

Potter can try any number of combinations in midfield but it's always going to be shit so, on balance, what it does prove is how dreadful the squad that Moyes left was, equalled only by the appalling recruitment last summer

[Sir Alf]

Squad turnover should mean up to 10 different players. But even if we identify young, humgry, fast, athletic players we need we have Sullivan as self appointed DOF again and doing the negotiating. Best go look on the client lists for Salthouse, Silkman and Mackay for “washed up has beens” on top dollar but “once played for a big club”.  Same old, same old.

The only club in a top league to run with the owner as DOF. Thats all you need to know about why we will never progress. Dont get yer hopes up

[Mex Martillo]

For sure the squad is different next season. Just getting rid of Ings frees up a wedge for a good salary for a good player. Then some old guys like Cresswell might stay, he is good backup, but his new contract will be a big salary drop recognising he is not expected to start so we have more money to bring in new players. We will struggle to get top players, as we are in a shitty position, but we will get new players. Hopefully plenty of young guys with loads of potential.

The thing I do not agree with is people saying we do not have a good squad. We do have a good squad and should have been top half fighting for Europe. The problem is not the quality of players, it is the shit our quality players are as a team. It is crap motivation and crap management, by two different managers.

[Manuel]

Well, im not so optimistic, although agree on the out of contracts and loanees including Cornet not returning, those we may sell, all need a buyer and a buyer prepared to match our fee and the players wage expectations unless some are willing to take a pay cut, would also imagine we will dither on sales until we have replacements lined up or as good as especially on key players/positions..

If we do end up selling and need around 12 recruits do you honestly think our man Sullivan is capable of getting them in by August  Unless they are from other clubs wanting to get rid or prepared to indulge him in his cut price offers we may end up in a worse state? then FFP may be an issue even if we have the cash.

Not sure we will be improved much if at all especially if Potter cant turn things around in these final games, so reckon we are in shit place, and it could well be another rough season, just hope the 3 new boys are as shit as this season, at least we should just about survive.

Listen, without a crystal ball we can discuss it until we are blue in the face, but you have just agreed that at least nine will go out. You think we might not replace players going out, fair enough, your opinion, and btw you don't have to replace all of them by any means, replace players that never play? Hopefully we will replace some of the shit with our youngsters.

As for getting what we want for other players, we probably won't. We will sell at a loss and take hits, which is what we do every year (get them off the wage bill etc) We also have a history of selling players before replacements come in, something that I am not totally against as sometimes IMO you have to take what you can in the fear of being lumbered with them. Kick first and ask questions later. We don't always do that mind, case in point on  January deadline day this year when we told Coufal he can't go to Fulham. IMO that was a mistake.

[Sydney_Iron]

Well, im not so optimistic, although agree on the out of contracts and loanees including Cornet not returning, those we may sell, all need a buyer and a buyer prepared to match our fee and the players wage expectations unless some are willing to take a pay cut, would also imagine we will dither on sales until we have replacements lined up or as good as especially on key players/positions..

If we do end up selling and need around 12 recruits do you honestly think our man Sullivan is capable of getting them in by August  Unless they are from other clubs wanting to get rid or prepared to indulge him in his cut price offers we may end up in a worse state? then FFP may be an issue even if we have the cash.

Not sure we will be improved much if at all especially if Potter cant turn things around in these final games, so reckon we are in shit place, and it could well be another rough season, just hope the 3 new boys are as shit as this season, at least we should just about survive.

[Manuel]

I think we have six dad's army out of contract, they could all go. Two jokers on loan going back (ferguson & soler) so that's eight before we have even sold anyone. Rodriguez, Alvarez and Cornet are all but certain to go. Paqueta, Kudus, Emerson and Soucek are all heavily reputed to be leaving too. The Brazilian and Aguerd may well go too, and who knows who else may go for the right offer. IMO around 10 - 12 will go, naturally meaning many will be coming in, so yea our see our squad looking very different come Sept 1. I could be wrong though.