This lad is a real problem.
At £40mil, it's getting to the point of worst ever signing territory. The worst crime in football is hiding, centre back is probably the one position you can half get away with it, but not for too long. Shirks taking responsibility, who imo makes him worse than Mavropanos, at least he fronts up, which can lead to mistakes. Kilman doesn't, so it doesn't get highlighted.
We've obviously got a massive overhaul in the summer, but for me, he is the biggest problem in our team and we need to cut our losses if we can. It took a while to spot, because he hides, but you can't fool people for too long. Wolves fans told us, some wouldn't have it, but they were dead right. Absolute fraud of a player.
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Max Kilman
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Lee Trundle
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Eerie Decent
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Re: Max Kilman
Interesting stuff, however, you can never beat the eye test with stats.
For example, I bet there isn't a stat for when playing left of a back 3, you leave an inexperienced 19 year old all on his own up against the best player in the Premier League, time after time.
Opta won't be measuring that, I do though. I'm not bothered about how many clearances he makes, or 'progressive carries'.
For example, I bet there isn't a stat for when playing left of a back 3, you leave an inexperienced 19 year old all on his own up against the best player in the Premier League, time after time.
Opta won't be measuring that, I do though. I'm not bothered about how many clearances he makes, or 'progressive carries'.
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easthammer
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Re: Max Kilman
https://fbref.com/en/players/d0f72bf1/s ... ing-Report
First, I think Kilman was overpriced at £40m, but I assume that was Lopetegui's fault. However, as others have said I don't think there is much or any chance of moving him on any time soon. If you look at his opta stats ( current and in the past) it becomes obvious that the one thing he doesn't do is tackle and this is where I think our current problems lie. Some of you will be shouting at this fact. What is the point of a centre back who can't or doesn't tackle? I would have some empathy with such a view. But obviously not Lopetegui and those who wanted to play a more possession-based style than experienced under Moyes.
Kilman has some good qualities compared to other Centre Backs in the Premeirship his stats for interceptions, blocks, clearances and aerials won are well above the average. He is also above average for successful take-ons and progressive carries. He has average pass completion rates, he has been ever present and has only been booked four times ( maybe because he doesn't tackle!)
When at the end of ( or anytime in ) the game, when teams are putting us under the cosh because they have walked through our meek tackling, slow-moving midfield, just don't be looking for Kilman to be flying in with a match-saving tackle, it just ain't his style and never has been. Kilman's overall figures are down on his Wolves outings, but not the general pattern of what he does and does not bring to the team. He needs a partner to complement the way he plays. Interestingly, Mavaropanos' figures of strengths and weaknesses are very similar to Kilmans. ( The stats don't feature on crucial cock ups though). Todibo has a greater propensity to tackle - but for that to happen you have to be fit and on the pitch to do it.
First, I think Kilman was overpriced at £40m, but I assume that was Lopetegui's fault. However, as others have said I don't think there is much or any chance of moving him on any time soon. If you look at his opta stats ( current and in the past) it becomes obvious that the one thing he doesn't do is tackle and this is where I think our current problems lie. Some of you will be shouting at this fact. What is the point of a centre back who can't or doesn't tackle? I would have some empathy with such a view. But obviously not Lopetegui and those who wanted to play a more possession-based style than experienced under Moyes.
Kilman has some good qualities compared to other Centre Backs in the Premeirship his stats for interceptions, blocks, clearances and aerials won are well above the average. He is also above average for successful take-ons and progressive carries. He has average pass completion rates, he has been ever present and has only been booked four times ( maybe because he doesn't tackle!)
When at the end of ( or anytime in ) the game, when teams are putting us under the cosh because they have walked through our meek tackling, slow-moving midfield, just don't be looking for Kilman to be flying in with a match-saving tackle, it just ain't his style and never has been. Kilman's overall figures are down on his Wolves outings, but not the general pattern of what he does and does not bring to the team. He needs a partner to complement the way he plays. Interestingly, Mavaropanos' figures of strengths and weaknesses are very similar to Kilmans. ( The stats don't feature on crucial cock ups though). Todibo has a greater propensity to tackle - but for that to happen you have to be fit and on the pitch to do it.
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Lee Trundle
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Re: Max Kilman
He makes our starting 11 if we're using 3CBs, because we only have 3 senior CB's on our books.
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Eerie Decent
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Re: Max Kilman
We've weighed out £40mil on a centre back that can't play in a back four.
Heady days.
Heady days.
Re: Max Kilman
We are stuck with him unfortunately. Could be devent back up to Todibo and hopefully another beat of a CB we bring in over the summer. Expensive squad player for sure but thats where we are so may as well try to use as best we can as backuo and in some cup games etc
Of course, wishful thinking we get another CB in but if we can sell Aguerd and / or Mavro possibly? That said, the CB sits behind central midgield and striking dept in the priorities
Of course, wishful thinking we get another CB in but if we can sell Aguerd and / or Mavro possibly? That said, the CB sits behind central midgield and striking dept in the priorities
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Eerie Decent
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Re: Max Kilman
scott_d wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025, 12:40 The common theme for most of these players that are shit is the club they play for.
When Kilman first played, there was even some comments about him a steal at £40m. He looked solid and played out from the back, just need a little time to settle.
Since he has settled into this circus of a club, he's gone backwards.
There is a player in there, as there is in most of our squad. But there is something rotten at West Ham right now.
Can't really blame DS directly, but his job is to employ the right people to run the club and employ the right people to do that. With the manager, coaching staff and players, he's getting something very wrong. I don't think it's a simple case of the player is shit, or the manager is shit, or the coaching staff are shit, but something clearly is wrong.
You might have had a point, we're it not for Wolves fans pretty much unanimously telling us he was shit/average at best, and named his weaknesses as everything we are now seeing. They said £40mil was daylight robbery on us.
He hides, he's slow, he doesn't have natural defensive nous, he doesn't speak on the pitch. Disaster of a signing, I'd have Mavropanos over him every day of the week, and i also think he's pony.
He hides, he's slow, he doesn't have natural defensive nous, he doesn't speak on the pitch. Disaster of a signing, I'd have Mavropanos over him every day of the week, and i also think he's pony.
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Manuel
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Re: Max Kilman
I remember how poor in looked in the States pre-season which was fucking alarming, but hoped it was rustiness etc, but no sadly that was the real him. he can occasionally look OK but 40 fucking mil?? As quiet as a mouse too. Don't know what the answer is.
Re: Max Kilman
The common theme for most of these players that are shit is the club they play for.
When Kilman first played, there was even some comments about him a steal at £40m. He looked solid and played out from the back, just need a little time to settle.
Since he has settled into this circus of a club, he's gone backwards.
There is a player in there, as there is in most of our squad. But there is something rotten at West Ham right now.
Can't really blame DS directly, but his job is to employ the right people to run the club and employ the right people to do that. With the manager, coaching staff and players, he's getting something very wrong. I don't think it's a simple case of the player is shit, or the manager is shit, or the coaching staff are shit, but something clearly is wrong.
When Kilman first played, there was even some comments about him a steal at £40m. He looked solid and played out from the back, just need a little time to settle.
Since he has settled into this circus of a club, he's gone backwards.
There is a player in there, as there is in most of our squad. But there is something rotten at West Ham right now.
Can't really blame DS directly, but his job is to employ the right people to run the club and employ the right people to do that. With the manager, coaching staff and players, he's getting something very wrong. I don't think it's a simple case of the player is shit, or the manager is shit, or the coaching staff are shit, but something clearly is wrong.
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Lee Trundle
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Re: Max Kilman
His transfer price isn't the issue with him now. As a club you'd take the hit on him just to get him out to improve the defence.
But who is mental enough to pick up his 6 year contract on £100k a week?
I reckon we're stuck with him for at least another season, possibly much longer.
But who is mental enough to pick up his 6 year contract on £100k a week?
I reckon we're stuck with him for at least another season, possibly much longer.
Re: Max Kilman
Kilman was worth half what we paid for him and based on this season that looks like an overspend too.
But he is just one variable in a set that has led us to the deep rut we now sit in. The squad depth, weakness and imbalance another huge reason, the lack of a long term plan and DOF to execute it at the root of all problems and hence our owner. Btw, Sullivan wants success, has made budget available but his meddling, need for recognition, control whatever, means he consistently "shoots himself in the feet". Hard to tell anyone they are the biggest part of the problem and barrier to success especially a small narcissist.
We need another CB, one who is quick, physical beast but also very athletic who has good passing and control. Van Dyke a few years back is the template or someone like Rudegar but to buy the finished article is well beyond our budget. All comes back to recruitment and getting a young, perhaps raw version and developing them. Trouble is every club has data analytics and every part of the world is scouted. We are catching up in this area. One of the last to take this approach but arguably not implemented properly because almost every other club in top flight football has the analytics as part of a football strategy overseen and directed by a DOF. Even if we identify them, we then have our owner entrusted to agree with the choice and then negotiate and get a deal over the line. Odds are against us
But he is just one variable in a set that has led us to the deep rut we now sit in. The squad depth, weakness and imbalance another huge reason, the lack of a long term plan and DOF to execute it at the root of all problems and hence our owner. Btw, Sullivan wants success, has made budget available but his meddling, need for recognition, control whatever, means he consistently "shoots himself in the feet". Hard to tell anyone they are the biggest part of the problem and barrier to success especially a small narcissist.
We need another CB, one who is quick, physical beast but also very athletic who has good passing and control. Van Dyke a few years back is the template or someone like Rudegar but to buy the finished article is well beyond our budget. All comes back to recruitment and getting a young, perhaps raw version and developing them. Trouble is every club has data analytics and every part of the world is scouted. We are catching up in this area. One of the last to take this approach but arguably not implemented properly because almost every other club in top flight football has the analytics as part of a football strategy overseen and directed by a DOF. Even if we identify them, we then have our owner entrusted to agree with the choice and then negotiate and get a deal over the line. Odds are against us
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Lee Trundle
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Re: Max Kilman
It was obvious early doors that he wasn't up to it. The amount of excuses I've seen for him for him to be able to perform has been ridiculous. That he needs better defenders around him. That he needs better midfielders in front of him. That he needs to be played in a back 3. That he needs to play in the centre of a back 3. Maybe he's just shit?
I'd take whatever hit on him and look to move him on, otherwise our defence won't improve.
I'd take whatever hit on him and look to move him on, otherwise our defence won't improve.
Re: Max Kilman
An interesting observation - Maybe this is highlighting Kilman's weaknesses that were always there but overshadowed by the goals Mavropanos was giving away?
Re: Max Kilman
Massive Attack" wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025, 09:07So did Gary Breen for Ireland. It's not always a good measure to gauge from with the generally slower tempo of International Football compared to the intensity of most games in the Prem.
That's true. But in both cases, his team mates in defence are better for club than country and the issue with Mavropanos for us isn't that he plays poorly, he often does well, but every match he does something so terrible that it either gives away a goal or a golden opportunity. It's weird how it's every game for us but never for Greece. It isn't the team mates and it isn't the opposition so it has to be the system.
He should probably be moved on for his own good, he's a good defender who doesn't fit us at all. We're short of depth at the back, though.
He should probably be moved on for his own good, he's a good defender who doesn't fit us at all. We're short of depth at the back, though.
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Massive Attack
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Re: Max Kilman
So did Gary Breen for Ireland. It's not always a good measure to gauge from with the generally slower tempo of International Football compared to the intensity of most games in the Prem.
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Massive Attack
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eusebiovic
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Re: Max Kilman
Massive Attack" wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025, 22:24 Mavropanos blows both Todibo and Kilman out the water when it comes to who's been the most disastrous defender currently at the Club. A constant accident waiting to happen. Get rid ASAP.
I know but Kilman doesn't look like much of a leader either does he? He was supposed to be half decent but looks like an much more expensive Colin Foster at 50 times the price!
Last edited by eusebiovic on 27 Apr 2025, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Massive Attack
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Re: Max Kilman
Mavropanos blows both Todibo and Kilman out the water when it comes to who's been the most disastrous defender currently at the Club. A constant accident waiting to happen. Get rid ASAP.