Iran v Israel

[Collins Wong - A Free Man]

Israel struck Iran last night.

Iran hit back tonight.

Israel is bombing Iran now. 

Hope Iran wins, tbh. No more wars for Israel. 

[panamahat]

Why the hell not

[RootsRadical]

Shouldn't laugh........





 

[Mike Oxsaw]

I don't give a shit about either of them..
All I care about is my own (kin and country)

You should give a shit because if Israel capitulates, the fundamentalists will be looking for their next target/victory and the obvious choice is somewhere they've been sending fertile young men of fighting age for decades.

The army is already in place and society will willingly provide the weaponry.

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

I don't give a shit about either of them..
All I care about is my own (kin and country)

[Mike Oxsaw]

How about Hamas operatives stop using civilians as human shields. Do you think that will work?

How about the population of Gaza give up all Hamas operatives to Israel and release the remaining hostages? Do you think that will work?

How about if Iran formally accepts the state of Israel and it's right to peacefully exist, rather than demanding it's eradication from the earth, and in addition issues unconditional fatwa's on any who disrespect Iran's choice and keep attacking Israel. Do you think that will work?

No.

How about if Israel stops committing war crimes, will that work?

How about if Israel allows aid convoys into Gaza, rather than adopting a policy of collective punishment? Will that work?

How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza, will that work?

How about if Israel stops building illegal settlements on the West Bank and removes the existing ones, will that work?

Well, do YOU think (not hope or really (REALLY) want, but think) that the options you've offered up will stop the aggression on both sides?

Will we (have to) allow a teensy-weensy bit of aggression (against Israel, naturally) while we wait and see if your suggestions work?

Everything tried so far, hasn't stopped the violence, so who knows if they will work or not. Could be worth a try.

And where did I say Israel should put up with agression? I'm saying they should strike back in ways which don't involve war crimes. I mean I can't put Israel's right to self defence more clearly than "How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza."

Nothing screams more loudly than a statement like " "How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza.""  that you're intent of dragging the debate down to 6th-form levels of "solutions".

How do you target somebody hiding in a school or hospital?

How long should you be allowed to take to acquire and dispatch said target?

How much further aggression against your people should you have to tolerate whilst setting up each targeted assassination?

To be honest, if I had any say in Israelis reactions to the constant aggression of they've been on the receiving end down the years, I'd have long since handed out, in a language or method they fully understand, a slap that made the aggressor(s) go "FUCK THAT! Won't ever try that one again!".

The only thing of such magnitude I can think of at the moment is a dirty bomb down each and every entrance tunnel to Iran's underground nuclear facilities; the very earth protecting them will paradoxically prevent nuclear contamination polluting the atmosphere and at the same time render these facilities inaccessible for decades, if not hundreds of years.

It may well be that Iran are trying to coax/goad Israel into initiating a "traditional" Hiroshima style nuclear strike in an attempt to claim the global moral high ground (on behalf of their faith). The above suggestion may, they would try to claim, realise their dreams, but not quite in the way they pray for.

Desperate times often need desperate measures, especially if whoever opposes you does not share with you a common set of life's values.

[Hammer I am]

 

[Westside]

How about Hamas operatives stop using civilians as human shields. Do you think that will work?

How about the population of Gaza give up all Hamas operatives to Israel and release the remaining hostages? Do you think that will work?

How about if Iran formally accepts the state of Israel and it's right to peacefully exist, rather than demanding it's eradication from the earth, and in addition issues unconditional fatwa's on any who disrespect Iran's choice and keep attacking Israel. Do you think that will work?

No.

How about if Israel stops committing war crimes, will that work?

How about if Israel allows aid convoys into Gaza, rather than adopting a policy of collective punishment? Will that work?

How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza, will that work?

How about if Israel stops building illegal settlements on the West Bank and removes the existing ones, will that work?

Well, do YOU think (not hope or really (REALLY) want, but think) that the options you've offered up will stop the aggression on both sides?

Will we (have to) allow a teensy-weensy bit of aggression (against Israel, naturally) while we wait and see if your suggestions work?

Everything tried so far, hasn't stopped the violence, so who knows if they will work or not. Could be worth a try.

And where did I say Israel should put up with agression? I'm saying they should strike back in ways which don't involve war crimes. I mean I can't put Israel's right to self defence more clearly than "How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza."

[Mike Oxsaw]

How about Hamas operatives stop using civilians as human shields. Do you think that will work?

How about the population of Gaza give up all Hamas operatives to Israel and release the remaining hostages? Do you think that will work?

How about if Iran formally accepts the state of Israel and it's right to peacefully exist, rather than demanding it's eradication from the earth, and in addition issues unconditional fatwa's on any who disrespect Iran's choice and keep attacking Israel. Do you think that will work?

No.

How about if Israel stops committing war crimes, will that work?

How about if Israel allows aid convoys into Gaza, rather than adopting a policy of collective punishment? Will that work?

How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza, will that work?

How about if Israel stops building illegal settlements on the West Bank and removes the existing ones, will that work?

Well, do YOU think (not hope or really (REALLY) want, but think) that the options you've offered up will stop the aggression on both sides?

Will we (have to) allow a teensy-weensy bit of aggression (against Israel, naturally) while we wait and see if your suggestions work?

[Westside]

How about Hamas operatives stop using civilians as human shields. Do you think that will work?

How about the population of Gaza give up all Hamas operatives to Israel and release the remaining hostages? Do you think that will work?

How about if Iran formally accepts the state of Israel and it's right to peacefully exist, rather than demanding it's eradication from the earth, and in addition issues unconditional fatwa's on any who disrespect Iran's choice and keep attacking Israel. Do you think that will work?

No.

How about if Israel stops committing war crimes, will that work?

How about if Israel allows aid convoys into Gaza, rather than adopting a policy of collective punishment? Will that work?

How about if Israel uses targeted assasinations, rather than carpet bombing Gaza, will that work?

How about if Israel stops building illegal settlements on the West Bank and removes the existing ones, will that work?

[Mike Oxsaw]

"I asked YOU what they need to do to stop the violence."

Stop indiscriminately bombing Gaza, unless they have an ambitious target of civilian deaths they want to try and get to (currently in excess of 50,000). 

Violence is allowed by Israel, in defending itself. What it has been doing, goes way beyond self defence, more like a revnge killing spree.

 

That might be an outcome you want, but there's no historical proof that will actually happen.

How about Hamas operatives stop using civilians as human shields. Do you think that will work?

How about the population of Gaza give up all Hamas operatives to Israel and release the remaining hostages? Do you think that will work?

How about if Iran formally accepts the state of Israel and it's right to peacefully exist, rather than demanding it's eradication from the earth, and in addition issues unconditional fatwa's on any who disrespect Iran's choice and keep attacking Israel. Do you think that will work?

[Westside]

"I asked YOU what they need to do to stop the violence."

Stop indiscriminately bombing Gaza, unless they have an ambitious target of civilian deaths they want to try and get to (currently in excess of 50,000). 

Violence is allowed by Israel, in defending itself. What it has been doing, goes way beyond self defence, more like a revnge killing spree.
 

[Mike Oxsaw]

"So, how, exactly, do they achieve that, and how will that prevent attacks by Iran and it's proxies from continuing in the meantime?"

I'm sure they could find a way, although I doubt the pager routine will work again.

I didn't enquire about your confidence level of them finding a solution. I asked YOU what they need to do to stop the violence.

Let's please not drag this debate down to 6th form level "politics" and, instead, look for a practical solution that has a chance of success.

[Westside]

"So, how, exactly, do they achieve that, and how will that prevent attacks by Iran and it's proxies from continuing in the meantime?"

I'm sure they could find a way, although I doubt the pager routine will work again.

[Mike Oxsaw]

No.

Mind you, Israel seem a bit pre occupied with wiping Gazza, off the face of the earth. They could easily take out their enemies, like with the pager attack on Hezbollah, without tens of thousands of deaths in collateral damege. Even going back to the 70's, they took targeted revenge, on the members of Black September, they deemed responsible for the Munich Olympics massacre, with very minor disruption, to others.

So, how do you suggest they do that in the 21st century while preventing further attacks against themselves?

Do you actually believe Iran will let Hamas stop attacking Israel should the people of Gaza (try/offer to) take part in negotiating a potential peace deal with their neighbours?

Or are you of the belief that Israel should continue to accept yet more terrorism on it's land and against it's people "While we see which way the talks go"?

"So, how do you suggest they do that in the 21st century while preventing further attacks against themselves?"

By targeted attacks by special forces and Mossad, as I described earlier, rather than carpet bombing an entire area.

So, how, exactly, do they achieve that, and how will that prevent attacks by Iran and it's proxies from continuing in the meantime?

[Lee Trundle]

'ark at the Ayatollah Westside.

[Westside]

Do you think that it's Israel's turn to be wiped off the face of the earth?

No.

Mind you, Israel seem a bit pre occupied with wiping Gazza, off the face of the earth. They could easily take out their enemies, like with the pager attack on Hezbollah, without tens of thousands of deaths in collateral damege. Even going back to the 70's, they took targeted revenge, on the members of Black September, they deemed responsible for the Munich Olympics massacre, with very minor disruption, to others.

So, how do you suggest they do that in the 21st century while preventing further attacks against themselves?

Do you actually believe Iran will let Hamas stop attacking Israel should the people of Gaza (try/offer to) take part in negotiating a potential peace deal with their neighbours?

Or are you of the belief that Israel should continue to accept yet more terrorism on it's land and against it's people "While we see which way the talks go"?

"So, how do you suggest they do that in the 21st century while preventing further attacks against themselves?"

By targeted attacks by special forces and Mossad, as I described earlier, rather than carpet bombing an entire area.

[Mike Oxsaw]

Do you think that it's Israel's turn to be wiped off the face of the earth?

No.

Mind you, Israel seem a bit pre occupied with wiping Gazza, off the face of the earth. They could easily take out their enemies, like with the pager attack on Hezbollah, without tens of thousands of deaths in collateral damege. Even going back to the 70's, they took targeted revenge, on the members of Black September, they deemed responsible for the Munich Olympics massacre, with very minor disruption, to others.

So, how do you suggest they do that in the 21st century while preventing further attacks against themselves?

Do you actually believe Iran will let Hamas stop attacking Israel should the people of Gaza (try/offer to) take part in negotiating a potential peace deal with their neighbours?

Or are you of the belief that Israel should continue to accept yet more terrorism on it's land and against it's people "While we see which way the talks go"?

[ironsofcanada]

 They could easily take out their enemies, 

 

 

 

Yes dealing with an enemy that has for decades embedded itself into your population and international organizations (with tacit support from those organizations) and every level of social and governmental infrastructure is the exact same as dealing with external enemies.

Oh wait...

[Gank]

Do you think that it's Israel's turn to be wiped off the face of the earth?

No.

Mind you, Israel seem a bit pre occupied with wiping Gazza, off the face of the earth. 

Gazza? The man is a Tottenham icon, the Jews love him!

[Westside]

Do you think that it's Israel's turn to be wiped off the face of the earth?

No.

Mind you, Israel seem a bit pre occupied with wiping Gazza, off the face of the earth. They could easily take out their enemies, like with the pager attack on Hezbollah, without tens of thousands of deaths in collateral damege. Even going back to the 70's, they took targeted revenge, on the members of Black September, they deemed responsible for the Munich Olympics massacre, with very minor disruption, to others.

[Mike Oxsaw]

Don't forget that MAD - mutually assured destruction - which acts as a deterrent from (first use) nuclear strikes for the current nuclear powers holds no such restraint for a state like Iran.

They would accept the obliteration of (current day)  Iran as an acceptable price to pay for the obliteration of Israel as Allah would ensure that they once again rise to dominance once the dust settles.

[zebthecat]

Israel came very close to launching nuclear missiles against Iraq in the first Gulf War after Iraq bombarded Tel Aviv and other place, They Israalis had to be dissuaded by George Bush in return for Patriot anti-missile missiles and gurantess that the coalition special forces would go after Iraq's SCUD launchers.
I worked in the MoD Procurement Executive at the time and it was certialy interesting.

[Massive Attack]

With regard to Iran's potential to develop nuclear weapons and it's attitude towards Israel, is "Let's just wait and see what happens," a sensible, adult, intelligent and responsible stance to take?

You're overreacting like the Israelis are when it comes to just a little old Nuclear bomb and constant real threats to eradicate all of Israel and it's people. 

[Mike Oxsaw]

Do you think that it's Israel's turn to be wiped off the face of the earth?

[Westside]

Israel on other hand has had nukes for approximately 50 years and never threatened to use them and have them as a deterrent 

They were on the verge of using them in the 1973 war, as they were on the brink of being over run, by their Arab enemies. Israel's nuclear strike planes and missiles were put on alert by Golda Meir. Fortunately, the Arab nations got carried away and outran their SAM and ATGW shields, enable Israel to lauanch effective non nuclear counter offensives.

And who are Israel deterring, if you are so sure Iran would use nukes?