The war in Ukraine

[Barty]

"I miss the ""is putin about to make a big mistake"" thread"

[Hammer and Pickle]

"So many wasted words devoted to the Kremlin cause, Spambottroll 2. Yet so little real military gain and at what cost. No democratic nation would tolerate a government responsible for anything remotely like it. Yet these are supposed to be military victories according to you. Absolutely risible."

[riosleftsock]

"Pickle I'm not sure you've been following this (from a military perspective). Avdeevka has been in a war zone since 2014, briefly held by DPR separatists, the Ukraine army re-captured it and held it since, turning into the most fortified city in Donbass and possibly Ukraine over almost 10 years. Bakhmut was fought by Prighozin's Wagner PMC, which was fought (after the fall of Soledar) over several months using Wagner PMC, Akhmat assault troops and a LOT of convict volunteers, who were used as cannon fodder. The Russian losses especially of convict tropps was in the tens of thousands, but the Russians still created a meat-grinder for Ukraine, who made a decision to hold Bakhmut to the last building at the cost of their own counter-offensive, feeding fresh reserves into Bakhmut that were needed at other points on the front. Bakhmut can probably be considered a tactical victory for Russia as it dented the counter-offensive and distracted reserves that would have been better deployed elsewhere. Avdeevka was a tactical and strategic victory fought by the professional Russian Army against a mixture of professional and conscripted Ukrainian troops. It was a tactical victory as it moved Ukrainian artillery further back from Gorlivka and Donetsk cities form where they had shelled the civilian areas and city centre for over a decade, and a strategic victory as it opens up the communication and logistic routes for Southern Donbass and beyond through Pokrovsk. You may not agree with Russia's motives, you may even dislike Russians and Russia, but you can not ignore what is staring you in the face."

[Hammer and Pickle]

Devastating Twundle. Why don’t you take me on there? I’m sure Facebook will be suitably impressed.

[Lee Trundle]

"The writing was in the wall when you were told to remove those Ukraine filters from your social media, Hamas & Pickled."

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Yeah, the Avdiivka Pyrrhic victory was even more costly in terms of casualties and material than the Bakhamut one. This military operation is a bit special, I’d say, given Ukraine is supposed to be running out of men and ammunition. But make no mistake - Ukraine may still lose this war and become a Kremlin vassal. But that decisive battle will be fought in the US Congress where its enemy is the Trump GOP."

[Mike Oxsaw]

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at the pet insult names posters use against those with whom they disagree (but have never bettered).

[Lee Trundle]

"You can always tell when Capitol They is in proper Karen mode when the brace of posts start to come out A hat trick of braces just on the front page here. It is funny seeing him bringing up things that were said over a year ago. It won't be too long before he suggests peace talks with Russian might be worthwhile, instead of wanting more bloodshed."

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Poland is currently celebrating 25 years of NATO membership. It’s about to take delivery of 98 AH-64 Apache helicopters from the US, making it the operator of biggest contingent of this formidable battlefield weapon in Europe (only Egypt and Turkey have a larger force apart from the US). The Kremlin’s strategy will therefore definitely focus on reducing Poland’s capacity to use its military potential effectively together with other NATO members and if necessary alone."

[riosleftsock]

"Pickle You can start the clock whenever you want, to score a point, but even you understand the difference between the campaigns in Bakhmut and Avdeevka."

[Hammer and Pickle]

Where’s Pointy when the meaning of words like “city” and “short time” is lost?

[riosleftsock]

"Jaan The shells could possibly be a sideshow now, although Ukraine desperately needs them. Russia has re-purposed the enormous stock of dumb bombs, converting them into guided FABs which are improving and getting bigger, they smashed the fortifications in Avdeevka and took this city in a short time compared to Bakhmut."

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

"‘The imbalance was less in the past’ No it wasn’t. ‘Russia is firing a staggering 20,000 artillery rounds per day, a senior U.S. defense official estimated, while Ukraine is firing from 4,000 to 7,000 rounds daily.’ From Nov 2022 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna56210 ‘Amid their counteroffensive, Ukrainian guns are firing up to 6,000 rounds daily, Ukrainian MP Oleksandra Ustinova told CNN, but the military wants to shoot more than 10,000. Even that is a fraction of the 60,000 shells that Russia was using at the peak of its barrages this year, per an Estonian and Ukrainian government analysis.’ Sept 2023 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/17/europe/ukraine-shell-supplies-intl/index.html"

[riosleftsock]

"Cap My internet research consisted of reading the MSM sites (CNN, BBC, WAPO etc) and Ukrainska Pravda. CNN say Russia is producing 3 x as many large shells (NATO 155 eg) as US and Europe combined, but the US will expand production and may reach 100k shells per month by the end of next year, the same article states Russia produces 250k shells per year already and is increasing production further this year. If the US had the shells, they would find a way of getting them to Ukraine by a third country. Either they don't have them in any great quantity or they don't want to send them. (just my opinion)"

[goose]

"The comparison you’re making is a military one. Putin isn’t taking Europe. This isn’t Blitzkrieg, in fact it’s the complete opposite. Come out from behind your curtains you fanny,"

[Capitol Man]

"goose 9:19 Tue Mar 12 Re: The war in Ukraine It's not thin you twat - you're a teenage girl in denial. The fascism, the invading it's neighbor, the making Russian great again, the elimination of domestic opposition, the questionable rise to power in the first place, the bid to right historical norms, the overt nationalism and focus on the one leader.... Yeah, really bloody thin."

[Capitol Man]

"Bovine - likely it would be bypassing the congressional approval process - though I'm sure your ""internet research"" says otherwise. President must formally notify Congress 30 calendar days before the Administration can take the final steps to conclude a government-to-government foreign military sale of major defense equipment valued at $14 million or more, defense articles or services valued at $50 million or more, or design and construction services valued at $200 million or more. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/RL31675.pdf It's one thing to draw down from their own stocks, another to blatantly use a loophole. I'd also imagine they don't want to be seen to be giving up on the actual bill to fund Ukraine. Slops - again this is not complicated if you pull your head out of Putin's arse for five minutes. The imbalance was less in the past and Russia was unable to bring quite as much air power to bear because of air defenses - again they are needing to ration and selectively defend."

[goose]

"European gas is about 60% more expensive than 2019. The comparison to Hitler is wafer thin unless you’re a massive bender. Putin can’t manage 20% of Ukraine, he’s got no hope of going any further."

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

"‘Capitol Man 7:42 Tue Mar 12 Re: The war in Ukraine Russia has basically been able to lob 3,4, 5 times the amount of shells into battles and it's starting to tell.’ That’s been the case since the beginning. Of which you’ve angrily refuted as trying to ‘portray the Ukrainee war effort as weak or pointless or failing’ when it’s been pointed out."

[riosleftsock]

"Cap, at last we agree on something. The Czech republic president has raised enough money to buy 300k shells from outside the EU, but not from the US. Do you know why not?"

[Capitol Man]

"riosleftsock 9:02 Tue Mar 12 Re: The war in Ukraine They have essentially been doing that - while also looking to ramp up domestic production. You're absolutely correct though, they should be doing more."

[Capitol Man]

"CL - not really what I said. It's about over-emphasizing the cost, especially now energy prices have gone back to norms, at least pre-pandemic norms. There's an easy argument to that with the direct and accurate comparisons to Hitler. You may think it's costly now, but wait until you have to fight a more powerful Russia down the road - then it will become costly to the UK and the rest of the West in more than monetary terms. But then there's a Russian narrative to counter that isn't there - gets posted on here time and time again by Bovine and others - ""Russia is no threat to anyone but Ukraine."" Why would Russia invade Europe - but that ignores the reality of Putin's ambition. Invading Ukraine is not the end game here, it's a past to restoring Russia as a great power. Getting Ukraine won't get them there, but will make them more powerful, especially when you add in the client state of Belarus. Putin hasn't hidden the fact that he sees three great powers - Russia, US and China. US dominates the Americas, China SE Asia, Russia dominates Europe. Ukraine is just a stage in that with kicking America out of Europe the next."

[Capitol Man]

"CL - not really what I said. It's about over-emphasizing the cost, especially now energy prices have gone back to norms, at least pre-pandemic norms. There's an easy argument to that with the direct and accurate comparisons to Hitler. You may think it's costly now, but wait until you have to fight a more powerful Russia down the road - then it will become costly to the UK and the rest of the West in more than monetary terms. But then there's a Russian narrative to counter that isn't there - gets posted on here time and time again by Bovine and others - ""Russia is no threat to anyone but Ukraine."" Why would Russia invade Europe - but that ignores the reality of Putin's ambition. Invading Ukraine is not the end game here, it's a past to restoring Russia as a great power. Getting Ukraine won't get them there, but will make them more powerful, especially when you add in the client state of Belarus. Putin hasn't hidden the fact that he sees three great powers - Russia, US and China. US dominates the Americas, China SE Asia, Russia dominates Europe. Ukraine is just a stage in that with kicking America out of Europe the next."

[riosleftsock]

"""The Trump/Right wing twat block on American military aid is stopping the delivery of more shell and air defense missiles letting Russia to get an upper hand."" So why don't Europe just buy shells from the US and send them to Ukraine?"

[Mike Oxsaw]

"So the entire western government decision making collective reads a selected handful of posts on WHO and decides to stop supporting the Ukraine? Is that how it works? Why don't you simply cry ""Boo-Hoo! Everybody stop posting things I don't like!!!""?"

[goose]

And if you don’t think supporting Ukraine has cost average people money then you’re dumber than I’d assumed.