Squad Building for 25/26

[southbankbornnbred]

Good summary Nutsin. Potter reverted to a back 4 and got central midfield wrong relying on the slowest double pivot central midfield in the Premiership. A back 3 seems a better fit but also when Paqueta dropped deeper we had 3 in the central mid and stopped Brentford having so much space to run into when they countered. As u say, Paqueta has to play deeper with the game ahead of him.

Not writing Potter off yet but he has to learn we cannot  play a 2 person central midfield of Alvarez and Soucek and that Mavro in a 4 man back 4 us going to be risky. Hopefully wont see either mistakes repeated?  Main other thing we need is Ferguson and Todibo to get and stay fit

Yeah, interesting summaries, Alf and Nutsin.

I also think it’s far too early to judge Potter. These are not his players and there’s just no way he’d have signed most of them. I’m not saying he’ll rip it up at West Ham (who knows), but his teams don’t generally look like us right now.

This old, slow and tired squad has a LOT of problems. But by far the biggest problem I can see is in central defence.

Nutsin summed it up nicely: “Mavrapanos still getting in the side as a starter makes you wonder just how good he must show at practice all week because on match day he is always one of the worse players on the field.”

Its not that Mavrapanos is any good - he’s fucking terrible. A mistake waiting to happen. It’s just that we don’t have any depth, and the other centre halves are also woeful - or injury prone.

We’ve spent (or agreed to spend) a small  fortune on some absolute dross. Kilman is the worst £40m footballer I’ve ever seen. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker and regularly gets destroyed for pace over ten yards - let alone 20+. It means we can’t really play, or get, high up the pitch quickly enough. So he forces us to play a way that Potter probably doesn’t want. Absolute waste of that huge outlay. Slow, off the pace mentally, and too easily exposed because of it. His saving grace is that he doesn’t really make “mistakes” like Mavrapanos - and he is a battler. It’s just that his physical attributes are poor for the modern Premier League, where opponents are often athletes more than footballers.

Mavrapanos was in excess of £20m. We've agreed to spend £34m on Todibo, who is a good player but injury prone - and clearly nursing his way through the season. And we spent £30m on Aguerd who started well, deteriorated under Moyes and then got loaned out by a hopeless manager who had no idea what he was doing.

Thats £125m worth of “talent” and we’re catastrophically poor at the back.

Fixing that will take some doing. Who, for example, will want to sign Kilman at his fee/wages - unless it’s a move like a return to Wolves for half the money?

Moyes and Lopetegui royally lumped us in it.

I also have to say that Sullivan - and the departed (and largely over-rated) Steidten should hang his head in shame over the Kilman deal. How a chairman and technical director could let a new manager sign somebody so obviously limited for £40m and then put him on astronomical wages and a seven-year contract, is beyond me.

Club chairman rightly and wrongly get blamed for a lot of things - some within their control, some not. But that Kilman deal was akin to falling asleep at the wheel.

[Mad Ferret]

Didn't Mavropanos cost close to £30m?

I'd argue that's a worse deal.

Yes.

Was 20m EUR with 5m EUR in Addons...so just over 16.5m GBP down, and a bit more to come to take it up to a max of around 20m GBP.

Some way short of £30m in fact, and not the worst priced deal in Premier League history by a long way.

 

 

Ok, so £20m on a walking disaster who makes costly mistakes every game.

Or £40m on a player who is decent, no more, no less.

Kilman the better deal.

[El Scorchio]

Didn't Mavropanos cost close to £30m?

I'd argue that's a worse deal.

Yes.

Was 20m EUR with 5m EUR in Addons...so just over 16.5m GBP down, and a bit more to come to take it up to a max of around 20m GBP.

Some way short of £30m in fact, and not the worst priced deal in Premier League history by a long way.

 

 

He's also on half the wages of Kilman and his contract is 2 years shorter- only 3 left after this season. Both bad bits of business as it's turned out, but we can eat the cost of the Mav deal much more easily, and we would likely recoup a good portion of what we paid and find him much, much easier to move on which I expect us to try and do in the summer on the assumption Todibo stays and Kilman is going to be unsellable. Would be nice to buy a young CB to develop (along with seeing what we have in our own youth product) assuming the two above are staying and AWB is the third CB. Not a disaster if Mav is our back up if we can't move him on, but you wouldn't want him to have to start many games.

[goose]

Over the course of a season you need two RB’s don’t you?

 

 

probably - but i'd rather get the starting XI fixed before we start buying back-up right backs.
smart move is to prioritise by position isnt it?

[Lee Trundle]

Over the course of a season you need two RB’s don’t you?

Why have you only gone for 3 senior centre backs in your "plans" then?

Especially when the manager plays 3 at the back sometimes.

You need to sort out your priorities.

[stubbo]

Didn't Mavropanos cost close to £30m?

I'd argue that's a worse deal.

Yes.

Was 20m EUR with 5m EUR in Addons...so just over 16.5m GBP down, and a bit more to come to take it up to a max of around 20m GBP.

Some way short of £30m in fact, and not the worst priced deal in Premier League history by a long way.

[Nutsin]

Over the course of a season you need two RB’s don’t you?

[goose]

We will have to replace Stavros and Aguerd, so we will have the money to bring in 2 more,we have a lot of holes to fill, can’t get it all done in one window.

so the smart move is to prioritize by position.

I’d say a holding midfielder a right back and 2 right footed center halves. (Kilman is left footed.) That gives us our 3 at the back formation and our back four. 



Then I’d look for a box to box midfielder. I’d be good if we decided to ship out Paqueta, but not Kilman ffs. 

a right back? don't fancy AWB then?

[Nutsin]

We will have to replace Stavros and Aguerd, so we will have the money to bring in 2 more,we have a lot of holes to fill, can’t get it all done in one window.

so the smart move is to prioritize by position.

I’d say a holding midfielder a right back and 2 right footed center halves. (Kilman is left footed.) That gives us our 3 at the back formation and our back four. 



Then I’d look for a box to box midfielder. I’d be good if we decided to ship out Paqueta, but not Kilman ffs. 

[Sir Alf]

Stavros was about 18 million iirc? Still overpaid mind

Potter will need to learn lessons. He may have to set up at home as he does away and abandon any thoughts of being able to play thru teams via possession and do like Forest do, defend deeper ( low block ), 9 or 10 behind the ball, narrow and look to fast counters and the right moment to jump into a press because we are so vulnerable to transitions / counters when we lose the ball as we did the 2nd ball from our corner for the Brentford goal. We then got exposed many more times with just the slow Alvarez and excruciatingly slow Soucek as the double pivot defensive midfield. Putting JWP in there and dropping Paqueta deeper for a 3 person centre mid unit solved the problem 2nd half as the acres of space for Brentford to tcounter into were largely gone.  

Btw Soucek can play as more of a defensive midfielder in away games if as mentioned, we sit deeper in shape. He’s good at getting in blocks and tackles / headers from a relatively static position. In games where he has to chase, he’s anonymous. Against teams like Brentford who press fast and counter I think he can only play as a number 10 type arriving in the box to give us another goal threat not in a defensive capacity. If Paqueta, Alvarez, JWP are available they start ahead of him in most games for me assuming they are played in their best positions. For Paqueta thats as a no 8, he cannot handle the back to goal and half turn requirements to play an advanced role in the Prem imo. 

Anyway, as said, Potter has made one bad tactical and selection call now in that first half.  The orher game he was question was  at home also to Palace but he had the mitigation of injuries. Lets hope he doesnt do a Lop and keep repeating them.  We still have a squad suited to Moyes defend deep and counter tactics and CBs that seem best suited to a 3 at the back, becoming a 5 when out of possession.

Lets see what he does against Arsenal. Hopefully similar to the set up at Villa and Chelsea but with better attacking options. 

Then the real test, Leicester at home that we have to win. A repeat of trying to “run ( literally) before we can walk” and I will start to think the Potter doubters might be onto something

[Lee Trundle]

It's not just him in defence that I have an issue with.

I'd happily get of all of them apart from AWB, Scarles, and probably Emerson (although I'd get rid if a good price came in for him).  I haven't completely given up on Todibo, yet.  I'd love to know if Casey is up to the job, also.

[El Scorchio]

20 million for Mav according to Transfermarkt. Another piss poor deal, but it's not a race to the bottom. They have both unquestionably been awful for the respective fees we've paid and what we should have expected. Kilman isn't dropping obvious clangers like Mav but he's still the centrepiece of a dreadful defence and we are on the hook for far far more money with him. Mav likely won't be that difficult to move on at the end of the season and for far less of a loss.

Todibo is the only one we've got who looks capable of being worth half a shit at the moment, but it's hard to tell seen as he's been on the pitch so little, between injury and Lop's weird attitude toward him.

[Manuel]

Lots of excuses....

If he comes good...
If he plays with a better partner...
If he plays with 2 other players at the back...
If we have a better midfield in front of him...
If we had only paid £20m for him...

Too many for me.

 

For me it's pretty black and white, he's an OK CB that we have paid OTT for, which ain't his fault, but can still be good enough for the levels that we realistically aspire to. I'm not sure why it needs any deeper analysis than that? After all, what's done is done, unless you really have a vendetta against him.

 

There's no vendetta.  I agree he's an OK CB. But I don't agree he's good enough for the levels that we realistically aspire to.

I'd happily have him on the bench with 2 better CB's ahead of him.  Not sure I'd be happy having him sat there on £100k a week to do that though.

 

 

OK aspire maybe the wrong word, we all want to be top 6 etc but realistically I don't see that happening and can't see us signing two CB's better than what he is over the coming years.

[El Scorchio]

You expect a 40 million pound centre back to be good enough to come straight in and elevate the play of those around him. Especially a guy who was the captain at his last club. Not to have to buy or plan carefully around him to mask or account for his deficiencies. That makes him a (very expensive) liability rather than an asset.



 

Yes, but he's not a 40 mil CB, we had our pants pulled down, that's the point. he's not a liabilty, he's just an average CB at this level, no more or less than that.

 

 

But he is, because that's what we paid for him and is therefore his value to us regardless of how good he is.
And there are expectations which come with that price tag which he is woefully not living up to.
At 40 million quid and his contract length/cost vs his level of play, he's a total liability both on the pitch and on the balance sheet for potentially 6.5 more years. If he'd only cost us 10-15 million then at least it would be more palatable even with the same level of performances.
 
Of course we had our pants utterly pulled down and of course it's not his fault that that's what we paid for him and he's not justifying the price tag at all. He can't magically make himself into Virgil Van Dijk or even someone half that good. This failure is on the club for paying way way too much for this player, but by definition sadly he's 100% a 40 million quid centre back.

[Manuel]

Didn't Mavropanos cost close to £30m?

I'd argue that's a worse deal.

Yes.

[Lee Trundle]

Lots of excuses....

If he comes good...
If he plays with a better partner...
If he plays with 2 other players at the back...
If we have a better midfield in front of him...
If we had only paid £20m for him...

Too many for me.

 

For me it's pretty black and white, he's an OK CB that we have paid OTT for, which ain't his fault, but can still be good enough for the levels that we realistically aspire to. I'm not sure why it needs any deeper analysis than that? After all, what's done is done, unless you really have a vendetta against him.

 

 

There's no vendetta.  I agree he's an OK CB. But I don't agree he's good enough for the levels that we realistically aspire to.

I'd happily have him on the bench with 2 better CB's ahead of him.  Not sure I'd be happy having him sat there on £100k a week to do that though.

[dealcanvey]

When we have gone 3 at the back he has looked better as does our whole defence. Our defence also has a very slow/immobile midfield in front of them. 

As said below, we have alot more problems with our squad than Kilman. 

[Mad Ferret]

Didn't Mavropanos cost close to £30m?

I'd argue that's a worse deal.

[Manuel]

You expect a 40 million pound centre back to be good enough to come straight in and elevate the play of those around him. Especially a guy who was the captain at his last club. Not to have to buy or plan carefully around him to mask or account for his deficiencies. That makes him a (very expensive) liability rather than an asset.

 

Yes, but he's not a 40 mil CB, we had our pants pulled down, that's the point. he's not a liabilty, he's just an average CB at this level, no more or less than that.

[El Scorchio]

You expect a 40 million pound centre back to be good enough to come straight in and elevate the play of those around him. Especially a guy who was the captain at his last club. Not to have to buy or plan carefully around him to mask or account for his deficiencies. That makes him a (very expensive) liability rather than an asset.
 

[Manuel]

Lots of excuses....

If he comes good...
If he plays with a better partner...
If he plays with 2 other players at the back...
If we have a better midfield in front of him...
If we had only paid £20m for him...

Too many for me.

 

 

For me it's pretty black and white, he's an OK CB that we have paid OTT for, which ain't his fault, but can still be good enough for the levels that we realistically aspire to. I'm not sure why it needs any deeper analysis than that? After all, what's done is done, unless you really have a vendetta against him.

[Nutsin]

Stop being a cսnt Trundle ffs, take a day off!

[Lee Trundle]

I don't think we'd be able to sell him, Nutsin.  So you can sit there happy watching one of our "better" players continue to play in one of the worst defences in the league.

[Sir Alf]

Potter will need 2 windows and probably 2 seasons to get the team he wamts of quick, athletic and technical players to play out from the back.

I very much doubt the fans will have the patience to give him that time. Of course we need to win games but I can recall Brighton only getting going in his last 2 seasons and languishing around 13th - 16th for several seasons. 

Sullivan will jump at the first sign of fan unrest and dissatisfaction because Potter is a Brady pick.  

Then the cycle will start again. Another coach, probably back to a Moyes style “pragmatist” as Sullivan will abandon any possession based / entertaining football as unachievable.  

[Nutsin]

Before we get all cute and sell off one of our better players, I’d much rather we get rid of Cresswell, Stavros and Coufal first.

Hopefully Aguerds loan spell wi pay dividends so we can get rid of his wage bill and bring in some coffers for a replacement, won’t get too much for Stavros who is the bigger waste of money.

Not only must it be difficult playing with Stavros but it must be next to impossible playing with our midfield in front of you, or lack therof. Fix our holding midfielder position and replace Stavros and you will see a major improvement.
Letting Dawson leave was a bigger mistake than over paying for Kilman. 

[Lee Trundle]

Lots of excuses....

If he comes good...
If he plays with a better partner...
If he plays with 2 other players at the back...
If we have a better midfield in front of him...
If we had only paid £20m for him...

Too many for me.