West Ham Online

One for you Sir Alf. Apparently they are trying to get more involved in the club, shirt sponsor etc.

https://www.claretandhugh.info/moneybal ... evolution/

The film Moneyball was released in 2011, based on a book written by Michael Lewis in 2003, The Art of Winning an Unfair Game.The book follows the Oakland Athletics baseball team, who assembled a competitive squad with limited funds using a sophisticated, objective, statistically measured approach to scouting and analysing players.Fast forward to the modern day, and many football clubs have adopted similar models, most notably Brighton & Hove Albion and Brentford.

Paul Barber, Chief Executive at Brighton, revealed more in a recent podcast, Inside the Boardroom, hosted by Jack Sullivan and Mark McAdam:

“The data identifies a much smaller group of players, positional need, certain attributes, it looks at the players’ personality profiles, then we try and get the deal done. The human element is the coach identifying the need and then the personality profile.”

“The data doesn’t tell you if they are a good person or spend their nights in a nightclub or gambling—we have to get that information from contacts, networks, former coaches, former teammates, current coaches, current teammates.”

“It’s not a perfect science; human beings may react differently in different environments. The environment may not suit them; they may not settle. We do get things wrong, yet the longer we use the data, it becomes enriched by experience. However, it’s not infallible, as the last part does rely on human beings.”

Indeed, the last point is very difficult and one David Moyes said was a key focus when making decisions on transfers at West Ham.However, Barber is being quite modest in his summary, given Brighton have made huge profits on player turnover since adopting the model in 2017. They have also been excellent at sourcing players from countries that aren’t heavily scouted, such as Ecuador or Paraguay.At West Ham, Maximilian Hahn, Head of Technical Recruitment & Analysis—whom Claret and Hugh wrote about on Sunday regarding his growing influence—along with Dylan Curnell, First Team Recruitment Analyst, are reportedly involved in discussions with Amazon to use Amazon Web Services (AWS).This service is already being used globally and is not limited to sports. Companies use it to lower costs, improve performance, and foster innovation.AWS would access data from performance tools to identify players based on various metrics such as passing accuracy, stamina, and key passes in a game. It can even go further by analysing matches in real-time, focusing on both the club’s players and their opponents, allowing Graham Potter to make informed tactical changes. Outside of this, AWS can help with training by using data collected from heart rate monitors and performance metrics in training sessions. It can even calculate personalised training plans for each individual player to keep them in the best physical condition.The use of such data can only be seen as a positive, yet there are downsides. The transfer target lists must be dynamic, as players’ stock rises and falls. Contract lengths also play a key role in bargaining leverage.Another challenge is that with the widespread adoption of data usage in football, most clubs now know statistically a lot more about their players, making bargains harder to come by.It’s encouraging that West Ham are investing in improving their data, especially with the headwinds of PSR. Having recently appointed Graham Potter, who is a big advocate of this approach, future transfer windows could become far more exciting for Hammers fans.

“It’s not a perfect science; human beings may react differently in different environments. The environment may not suit them; they may not settle. We do get things wrong, yet the longer we use the data, it becomes enriched by experience. However, it’s not infallible, as the last part does rely on human beings.”

Which is exactly the opposite premise of moneyball. The whole idea was that you could use statistics to look past subjective judgments and bias and it wouldn't matter who you brought in so long as they had the player had the underlying statistics. I'm guessing Sullivan finally saw the movie and thought if another skint sports franchise owner could do it, he could too.

scott_d wrote: ↑17 Jan 2025, 13:32 "future transfer windows could become far more exciting for Hammers fans."

but on the other hand, you could have an attention seeking dwarf overseeing the whole lot.

"future transfer windows could become far more exciting for Hammers fans."

but on the other hand, you could have an attention seeking dwarf overseeing the whole lot.

Sir Alf" wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 13:23 Only certainty is that Sullivan will ensure, either thru underhand means or by just being himself, that any approach that is not about him will fail.

Everything has to be about him. 

Interesting point. In all my experience, every founder, manager, entrepreneur and every employee has always made it about them. They have agency and want to do well. 

Strange old world that.

Only certainty is that Sullivan will ensure, either thru underhand means or by just being himself, that any approach that is not about him will fail.

Everything has to be about him. 

Sullivan has the most to gain or lose from the employment of staff. Or, at least if it fails or it succeeds. My feeling is he would be more than happy with the middle ground of the premier league where budgets, income and costs are more predictable. His judgements are pretty much the same as almost all teams, DONT FUCKING GO DOWN YOU cսnt.

Russ of the BML" wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 09:51 This all seems far too modern and complex for Sullivan. 

He uses his own system:

1) Who is available and wants a move?
2) What does the selling club value the player at?
3) Will they accept 40% less of what they value the player at?

if the answer to 3 is 'no' then spend three weeks trying to get them to accept. If after 3 weeks the answer is still 'no' then revert back to stage 1.

This all seems far too modern and complex for Sullivan. 

He uses his own system:

1) Who is available and wants a move?
2) What does the selling club value the player at?
3) Will they accept 40% less of what they value the player at?

if the answer to 3 is 'no' then spend three weeks trying to get them to accept. If after 3 weeks the answer is still 'no' then revert back to stage 1.

claypole wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 09:38

BRANDED wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 09:10 In team sports there are a lot of variables to success and failure but as in all walks of life, employing the right people to do the right jobs is probably the most important thing. 

competition makes this hard. 

You can have all of this in place but if your ego won't allow you to listen or act on the advice then it is a waste of time and finances.

BRANDED wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 09:10 In team sports there are a lot of variables to success and failure but as in all walks of life, employing the right people to do the right jobs is probably the most important thing. 

competition makes this hard. 

Oh and this just reads like an advert for Amazon.

Yeah yeah this is all great until every single one of them isn't a superstar within three months or Sullivan 'doesn't fancy' any of the players identified, refuses to pay for them and goes out and buys three 30 year olds who happen to be clients of his mates instead. (While said rejected players go on in time to be the next lot of Caicados and MacAllisters etc.)

In team sports there are a lot of variables to success and failure but as in all walks of life, employing the right people to do the right jobs is probably the most important thing. 

competition makes this hard. 

LJC wrote: ↑16 Jan 2025, 08:47 There does seem to be something in Amazon and us though. I read yesterday they want to be a shit sponsor and I’m sure I read ages ago they wanted to do a show on us and we turned them down. 

Sullivan would try to use Amazon Web Services without paying for Prime membership.

If it was any other PL club I would believe it................... with Sullivan? no chance.

There does seem to be something in Amazon and us though. I read yesterday they want to be a shit sponsor and I’m sure I read ages ago they wanted to do a show on us and we turned them down. 

clearly the author of this wasn't taking much notice when we were constantly losing money on transfers under moyes, very weird quoting him

Put simply there is no edge here.... we're behind the curve playing catch up. Great that we're getting there....but we're way behind Brighton in this regards who have a centre with 10s of Analysts....not two guys in a Portakabin.