The war in Ukraine

[Barty]

"I miss the ""is putin about to make a big mistake"" thread"

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Have you actually still not worked out that if Ukraine was a NATO member, and if the Kremlin had not been… accommodated following 2014… none of this would have happened. Of course the West has fucked upon Ukraine. But you have consistently failed to show how this has actually happened."

[riosleftsock]

At last. You acknowledge that this is all about getting Ukraine into Nato. Do you think Ukraine should keep fighting for this ideal?

[Hammer and Pickle]

"At last. So the generous terms actually amounted to a demand for capitulation because ceding NATO membership basically amounts to that for Ukraine. And of course the story of the West forcing Ukraine’s had just collapses. You’re really pathetic at this, aren’t you. Oh and by the way, the GOP is just posturing on open borders and they will eventually approve the funding or be damned as Putin tools."

[riosleftsock]

"They were not surrender terms. Ukraine neutrality, not joining NATO written into the ever changing Ukrainian constitution, Donbass to retain some self-autonomy but remain part of Ukraine, future talks on Crimea. I'm not sure why you lack interest in Arestovytch as he was the lead negotiatior, was Elenskiy's trusted lieutenant and is the one who is making these claims, but they have been made by others too."

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Not interested in Arestovytch or what he said. What you need to do is admit you’re entirely full of shit as you fail, once again, to state what these bullshit generous surrender terms were."

[riosleftsock]

"""No need for the interviews though - all you have to do is back up the claim about the generous terms of surrender to support the story that the West is forcing Ukraine to fight your master. After all, you’re the one peddling the bullshit story."" The claim was in the statement by Arestovytch. He's since said that Ukraine had a choice between globalists and realists and Ukraine made the wrong choice, people in Ukraine died for globalism. He described it as a tragedy. He is right."

[Hammer and Pickle]

Really tedious Twundle - and not a little creepy as well. Or maybe you really are mentally retarded enough to believe you’ve scored some kind of gotcha as you sniff around my social media accounts. Fucking saddo social case.

[Lee Trundle]

"""to abandon Ukraine in its hour of greatest need"" Speaking of which, are you prepared to explain why you've abandoned Ukraine on your SOCIAL MEDIA in it's hour of greatest need, Hamas & Pickled?"

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Nice swerve there far-right Kremlin Troll twit. No need for the interviews though - all you have to do is back up the claim about the generous terms of surrender to support the story that the West is forcing Ukraine to fight your master. After all, you’re the one peddling the bullshit story."

[Capitol Man]

The ONLY reason hundreds of thousands have died is because a fascist dictator launched an invasion and initiated a slaughter. No amount of bullshit sprayed around by Rios the bovine sphincter changes that simple reality.

[riosleftsock]

You can go and find the interviews and articles by ukrainian officials (including Arestovytch) explaining this. And then you can ask yourself why did you never read any of this in our media

[Hammer and Pickle]

"He was surprised? OK, so what were said “generous terms”? Don’t you think it’s odd they were rejected as soon as substantial support from Ukraine’s partners in the West was confirmed?"

[riosleftsock]

"According to Arestovytch, who led the talks for Kiev, he was surprised at how generous the terms offered by Russia were in Istanbul. NATO, Biden and Johnson scuppered this deal and ordered Elenskiy to fight and that the US, UK and NATO would not sign any agreement or security guarantee based on this offer. Hundreds of thousands have died unnecessarily, the Ukraine economy is wrecked, the country probably fractured for our lifetimes and may not even survive in anything like the country it was during the soviet union (geographically) and if an independent ukraine emerges with NATo and EU membership, it could resemble the land that existed a couple of hundreds of years ago, landlocked and with 10k strong lightly armed police force."

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

"Even if Trump backs Ukraine, it's not at all likely Ukraine will achieve their goal. The only traitors to Ukraine will be those that pushed for the conflict to be resolved militarily instead of diplomatically. Those that propagated a false hope at the expense of ordinary Ukrainian folk."

[Hammer and Pickle]

"One thing is for sure: the strongest card in the Kremlin’s hand is the senators and congress delegates voting to abandon Ukraine in its hour of greatest need. They are real traitors and if the greatest traitor of all, Donald Trump is indeed elected as president, Putin and his criminal mob may indeed win this war. And then we really are all in deep shit."

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

"From the Washington Post…. Ukraine — Soldiers in the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade waited for nightfall before piling — nervous but confident — into their U.S.-provided Bradley Fighting Vehicles. It was June 7 and Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive was about to begin. The goal for the first 24 hours was to advance nearly nine miles, reaching the village of Robotyne — an initial thrust south toward the larger objective of reclaiming Melitopol, a city near the Sea of Azov, and severing Russian supply lines. Nothing went as planned. The Ukrainian troops had expected minefields but were blindsided by the density. The ground was carpeted with explosives, so many that some were buried in stacks. The soldiers had been trained to drive their Bradleys at a facility in Germany, on smooth terrain. But on the mushy soil of the Zaporizhzhia region, in the deafening noise of battle, they struggled to steer through the narrow lanes cleared of mines by advance units. The Russians, positioned on higher ground, immediately started firing antitank missiles. Some vehicles in the convoy were hit, forcing others behind them to veer off the path. Those, in turn, exploded on mines, snarling even more of the convoy. Russian helicopters and drones swooped in and attacked the pileup. Troops, some experiencing the shock of combat for the first time, pulled back to regroup — only to attack and retreat, again and again on successive days, with the same bloody results. “It was hellfire,” said Oleh Sentsov, a platoon commander in the 47th. By day four, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top commander, had seen enough. Incinerated Western military hardware — American Bradleys, German Leopard tanks, mine-sweeping vehicles — littered the battlefield. The numbers of dead and wounded sapped morale. Key findings from reporting on the campaign include: ● Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience. ● Ukraine’s setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses. ● The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn’t get in touch with Ukraine’s top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American’s second-guessing of battlefield decisions. ● Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn’t seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield. ● In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone. https://archive.ph/8kvNq Anyone who thinks 2024 will be a breakthrough for Ukraine is off their head."

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

"From the Washington Post…. Ukraine — Soldiers in the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade waited for nightfall before piling — nervous but confident — into their U.S.-provided Bradley Fighting Vehicles. It was June 7 and Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive was about to begin. The goal for the first 24 hours was to advance nearly nine miles, reaching the village of Robotyne — an initial thrust south toward the larger objective of reclaiming Melitopol, a city near the Sea of Azov, and severing Russian supply lines. Nothing went as planned. The Ukrainian troops had expected minefields but were blindsided by the density. The ground was carpeted with explosives, so many that some were buried in stacks. The soldiers had been trained to drive their Bradleys at a facility in Germany, on smooth terrain. But on the mushy soil of the Zaporizhzhia region, in the deafening noise of battle, they struggled to steer through the narrow lanes cleared of mines by advance units. The Russians, positioned on higher ground, immediately started firing antitank missiles. Some vehicles in the convoy were hit, forcing others behind them to veer off the path. Those, in turn, exploded on mines, snarling even more of the convoy. Russian helicopters and drones swooped in and attacked the pileup. Troops, some experiencing the shock of combat for the first time, pulled back to regroup — only to attack and retreat, again and again on successive days, with the same bloody results. “It was hellfire,” said Oleh Sentsov, a platoon commander in the 47th. By day four, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top commander, had seen enough. Incinerated Western military hardware — American Bradleys, German Leopard tanks, mine-sweeping vehicles — littered the battlefield. The numbers of dead and wounded sapped morale. Key findings from reporting on the campaign include: ● Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience. ● Ukraine’s setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses. ● The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn’t get in touch with Ukraine’s top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American’s second-guessing of battlefield decisions. ● Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn’t seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield. ● In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone. https://archive.ph/8kvNq Anyone who thinks 2024 will be a breakthrough for Ukraine is off their head."

[joyo]

"Well who thinks Russia is winning with 300k,deaths,injuried,captured or deserted? Oh and not forgetting the 3millon who have fled the country! Only scum extremists on left and conspiracy theorists right support and believe Russia will prevai"

[riosleftsock]

"Tried to post several times over the last few days, most times it just locked out or went to an admin page, today it went to either ""bad gateway"" or ""back end fetch failed"" (filth). Site is becoming unusable, I'm sure Wils is doing his best, but its not very user-friendly for me lately on work or home laptop on various browsers."

[bruuuno]

Pulls spaz face

[riosleftsock]

"Zaluzhniyi has said to Lloyd Austin that Ukraine needs 17,000,000 155mm shells and 350 - 400bn USD to return to 1991 borders (a stated war aim of Ukraine govt). 'Elenskiy is finished, as LT referred below. Zaluzhniy no. 2 killed by hand grenade he was given as a present. Danilov's wife poisoned with heavy metals (?) Elenska saying she doesn't want her Vlod to run for president next year Poroshenko stopped at border from visiting Orban allegedly. Arestovytch and Zaluzhniyi giving interviews that run completely counter to 'Elenskiy narrative. US and EU squeezing off the supply of money and weapons. Winning?"

[riosleftsock]

"Zaluzhniyi has said to Lloyd Austin that Ukraine needs 17,000,000 155mm shells and 350 - 400bn USD to return to 1991 borders (a stated war aim of Ukraine govt). 'Elenskiy is finished, as LT referred below. Zaluzhniy no. 2 killed by hand grenade he was given as a present. Danilov's wife poisoned with heavy metals (?) Elenska saying she doesn't want her Vlod to run for president next year Poroshenko stopped at border from visiting Orban allegedly. Arestovytch and Zaluzhniyi giving interviews that run completely counter to 'Elenskiy narrative. US and EU squeezing off the supply of money and weapons. Winning?"

[riosleftsock]

"Zaluzhniyi has said to Lloyd Austin that Ukraine needs 17,000,000 155mm shells and 350 - 400bn USD to return to 1991 borders (a stated war aim of Ukraine govt). 'Elenskiy is finished, as LT referred below. Zaluzhniy no. 2 killed by hand grenade he was given as a present. Danilov's wife poisoned with heavy metals (?) Elenska saying she doesn't want her Vlod to run for president next year Poroshenko stopped at border from visiting Orban allegedly. Arestovytch and Zaluzhniyi giving interviews that run completely counter to 'Elenskiy narrative. US and EU squeezing off the supply of money and weapons. Winning?"

[goose]

Hammer and Pickle 8:12 Mon Dec 4 Re: The war in Ukraine I’m not playing in your bullshit league Twundle and I’m not interested in entertaining your fan base. Do fuck off now and play where you can get a slap off the rozzers. League? Fan base? Rozzers? Can anyone make sense of this?

[Hammer and Pickle]

"Ukraine is fighting for its life after being invaded by a band of thugs with an unlimited supply of cannon-fodder at the head of the world's largest fossil fuel producer for daring to want to join NATO, the EU end the rest of the civilised world. Now the US, together with that civilised world, is putting the extraordinarily incompetent Likud regime in Tel Aviv under pressure to protect civilians as it pursues its military objectives in Gaza. That’s the way I see the world as a civilised fellow Ratched. Do you find this makes you and your pointy-headed social-case family upset? Ah diddums - why not do one and give us all a break?"