Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[stubbo]

I actually think it's more nuanced than that. 

We started really well against City, the first time Soucek wasn't in the side, and we had a proper battling midfield 3.  they then got round the sides at us in the first half.  Don't remember them dominating us through the middle.

Even at Fulham, we won the ball back relatively well in the first half with Alvarez and Guido doing good work, but couldn't keep possession once we had it with the absence of any kind of playmakers.

Once we have 3 from 4 of Paqueta, Soler, Guido, and Alvarez I'll be surprised if we're still being overrun in midfield.  Soucek is fundamentally a ghost in midfield so akin to playing with 10 men except at corners or crosses.

[Sir Alf]

Just like the last 2 seasons with Moyes we seem to be slow starters. That’s, of course, partly due to the starting 11 selections. We’ve got overun in midfield in pretty much all the games we’ve played first half. It seems once we concede, the opposition looks to consolidate, eases up on the pressing and attacking a tad less which then sees us get a foothold. But we have only really got on top possession wise in the 2nd half of games after changes are made. Exception was against City it was just a 20 min spell before Pep made subs to counter our half time changes.

The approach by Loppy so far does not appear too dissimilar to Moyes tatics which were not concede until 60-70 mins and then “ start to release the handbrake” ?  

And its true that other managers coming into teams like Brighton, Palace, Bournemouth and even Forest appear to have effected change far quicker?  It could simple be the level of turnover in players.  I do think, in part, that any change is also being slowed down by having to overcome the state Moyes left the squad in. He ( Moyes ) acquired players to play a specific way ( little possession , defend deep and counter or score via set pieces).  The whole tactical approach is trying to be changed and unlike some of the aforementioned clubs we just didnt have anywhere near the same number of technically gifted players? We had a Moyes squad where 5 or 6 first team players struggled to trap a bag of cement or pass accurately.

Currently imo, we still lack intensity, tempo and pace although I have noticed that Rodriguez has speeded up a bit and is now pressing quicker. Hopefully we see the same with other new arrivals.  We dont yet look like getting that “snappy” fast 2 touch football going with players showing great movement that the better teams in the league have. We have yet to play thru a team in midfield ( “the press”) . 

And most of us can see not all the squad weaknesses were not addressed properly despite talk of a “great window”. Centre forward, left and right back cover are still a problem and we also need to see one or both of Paqueta and Soler along with Alvarez, Rodriguez etc controlling the midfield to provide better service to Bowen, Kudus and co

So, like most, I will wait a while longer but look at least to seeing Loppy’s starting 11s improving.  We shall soon see this Saturday if we have taken a step forward.

[Full Rug]

We also looked good for the first 5 minutes against Man City, to be fair.

Other than that, I've not seen anything to get behind. I don't think I'll ever be able to get my nut around starting this season with Antonio up front. Fucking hell.

[Swiss.]

Full Rug

We had a goiod 20mins or so 2nd half against City where we really pressured them until they hit us on the break for the third. But I agree besides that we have been shit. 

[Full Rug]

And let's not forget, as pointed out earlier, we are 2nd bottom for shots on target in the league so far, only above Ipswich, just below Everton ffs. Very, very poor.

[Full Rug]

Palace wiped the floor with us?

Turn it in FFS.

They had a few chances and missed them, we had a few and took a couple of ours.

Wiped the floor might have been over egging it a bit, but they were much the better team for an hour, anyone saying anything else is lying. It wasn't just a couple of chances, it was defence against attack in the first half especially, they hit the woodwork twice in the game. We were fucking dogshit for 60 minutes, moderately better for the last half hour when we brought on about £150mil worth of talent.

Still, other than that half hour, I'm trying to think of another half of a game so far where we have played well? Villa was shit, Man City you can excuse, Fulham was shit, Bournemouth was shit. We've been mostly outplayed in every game so far.

[Lee Trundle]

I find it odd that some are suggesting we can't judge him now.

Some of the blind faith shown in this guy has been off that chart.  For me, that has to be earnt.

[Mad Ferret]

Palace wiped the floor with us?

Turn it in FFS.

They had a few chances and missed them, we had a few and took a couple of ours.

[Full Rug]

Interesting mention of Glasner Stubbo. He turned up to take over a squad that was a going concern and tweaked them to finish the season just below us.

He had an instant impact with Palace after his February arrival they now sit though with four games without a win and just two points. I wonder if the Palace fans are talking about replacing Glasner.

 

 

 

Palace fans are very happy with Glasner, he has transformed them into a team that have a clear way of playing, and are a pleasure to watch. They can see what he's trying to do, and have something to get behind. And let's be honest, they wiped the floor with us, and should've been 3-0 up at half time, so should be on 5 points, us on 1.

If you could tell me what the fuck our manager is trying to do with our team, as in a clear plan and playing identity to move forward, other than getting Antonio to launch in long throws onto Soucek's bonce, I'm all ears/eyes.

[Manuel]

Every game matters, that's just the nature of the beast now. If we lose to Chelsea and Brentford I doubt there will be too many left shrugging their shoulders and keep saying it's still early. Getting into a rut is very easy.

[Iron Duke]

Results-wise it hasn’t been a terrible start. Losing to Villa and Man City isn’t a disaster, and four points out of Palace and Fulham is decent. Added to that, we beat Bournemouth in the cup.

Performance-wise, we were a bit lucky in all the games we got something out of. On the other hand, Villa and Man City deserved to beat us.

In summary, our performances leave me a bit worried. His selections have caused concern. After spending shit loads of money, we should be expecting better. However, he has bought himself time by being lucky.

[Russ of the BML]

Don't get too hung up on the "Christmas" comment. All my point was is that I only genuinely feel that only then would be enough time for us to truly judge whether Lope is going to be a success or not. 

Age is fuck all to do with it. So comparing him to the Brighton manager and saying he's a kid is ridiculous. By that you mean that older managers should be better than younger managers as they are more experienced. Daft. And for all we know the kid at Brighton may be the next Pep. But Brighton will stumble and hit the skids and then you see what they are made of. 

I agree with you, it's not looked great. I even posted my own concerns with selections and tactics. But its a new era, a transition period, lots of new players....He needs time and patience and then, as I said, only at Christmas will I be able to genuinely judge whether he is the man or not. But one thing I won't do is overlook incompetence and mistakes in the meantime, like some supporters seems to be doing. 

 

I'm not hung up on it, I'm just pointing out it's a load of old bollocks. What if we lose our next 6 games? What if we look absolutely shit? He gets judged on a game by game basis, and so far, we've been utterly pony.

I made the point about age, because of this ridiculous notion of 'transition' (a cool fancy new word) where an experienced manager can't gel together a team 3 months into the job, when a young lad don't seem to be having any trouble. Just like Emery did straight away at Villa, and he wasn't watching them for a year before taking over, or have a full summer with the squad. It's not the 1980's, where managers got 5 years to build a team, most proper managers make an impact straight away these days. This manager has been given a proper squad worth a lot of money, and we've got 35 year old cream crackered Antonio launching long throws into the box for Soucek to try to get on the end of. It's diabolical, pre-historic football and we are right to expect much better than what we have seen so far.

There are no excuses now, we need to see massive improvement quickly, hopefully starting with Chelsea at the weekend.

You make some good points. All respectfully received.

My only point I would make is that you mention Emery. He didn't make an instant impact at Villa and they did, for some months, play an absolute gobshite style of football more attuned to just sitting in and seeing games out. They recruited well over the next windows and Hey Presto... He turned it around. I even recall some Villa fans on Talksport questioning what on earth he was doing. 

It takes time. Especially when a major re-build was required courtesy of Moyes inability to maintain a proper squad.

But yeah, ultimately your point is about seeing an improvement and I totally agree. 

[Swiss.]

Yes JWP is on loan.

[,]

Interesting mention of Glasner Stubbo. He turned up to take over a squad that was a going concern and tweaked them to finish the season just below us.

He had an instant impact with Palace after his February arrival they now sit though with four games without a win and just two points. I wonder if the Palace fans are talking about replacing Glasner.

[claypole]

I didn't think Jwp had been sold, thought it was a loan with no obligation.

[factory seconds]

the only rationalisation i have for saturday's lineup is that the bloke seems to be obsessed with the impact of substitutes. keeps pointing it out in every presser that everyone talks about the starting XI, but the whole squad is what matters.

if i was going to be generous i'd say that he looked to spend the first hour or so roughing them up with our most physical players, before bringing on our actual footballers to actually go in for the kill. perhaps he identified something in how fulham play, when/how they're strong and weak and adapted his game plan accordingly.

but like i said, that's being generous. we brought the bloke in to get us playing football and while it's nice not to be rooted to the bottom of the league (a distinct possibility given our start), i'm not going to make excuses for him if he can't get our players to look like a coherent outfit.

[Full Rug]

Don't get too hung up on the "Christmas" comment. All my point was is that I only genuinely feel that only then would be enough time for us to truly judge whether Lope is going to be a success or not. 

Age is fuck all to do with it. So comparing him to the Brighton manager and saying he's a kid is ridiculous. By that you mean that older managers should be better than younger managers as they are more experienced. Daft. And for all we know the kid at Brighton may be the next Pep. But Brighton will stumble and hit the skids and then you see what they are made of. 

I agree with you, it's not looked great. I even posted my own concerns with selections and tactics. But its a new era, a transition period, lots of new players....He needs time and patience and then, as I said, only at Christmas will I be able to genuinely judge whether he is the man or not. But one thing I won't do is overlook incompetence and mistakes in the meantime, like some supporters seems to be doing. 

 

 

I'm not hung up on it, I'm just pointing out it's a load of old bollocks. What if we lose our next 6 games? What if we look absolutely shit? He gets judged on a game by game basis, and so far, we've been utterly pony.

I made the point about age, because of this ridiculous notion of 'transition' (a cool fancy new word) where an experienced manager can't gel together a team 3 months into the job, when a young lad don't seem to be having any trouble. Just like Emery did straight away at Villa, and he wasn't watching them for a year before taking over, or have a full summer with the squad. It's not the 1980's, where managers got 5 years to build a team, most proper managers make an impact straight away these days. This manager has been given a proper squad worth a lot of money, and we've got 35 year old cream crackered Antonio launching long throws into the box for Soucek to try to get on the end of. It's diabolical, pre-historic football and we are right to expect much better than what we have seen so far.

There are no excuses now, we need to see massive improvement quickly, hopefully starting with Chelsea at the weekend.

[stubbo-admin]

Reality is he'll only get sacked this season if we look like getting ourselves in serious relegation trouble.  With the squad we have and how abject Everton, Southampton, Ipswich etc are, I'd be flabbergasted if he doesn't at least get this whole season.

However, that shouldn't excuse a lack of swift improvement.  Look how quickly Glasner at Palace was able to get his ideas across, after the period of wise old owl Hodgson.

No excuse for not getting (most of the way) there in the next 4 or 5 games.

[Manuel]

This Christmas, or that time area, to give him time is just a nonsense, particularly in today's game. If we're still looking shit in say mid-Oct, which is another month away, who is going to say at that point yea it's fucking awful still but I'm giving him another two months? Let's keep it real.

[Massive Attack]

Neighbour of mine who is a Wolves season ticket holder did say at the time of the appointment though that we have replaced one defensive minded manager with another!

Lets see.

Many of them also confidently stated Kilman was vastly overrated and that they were the one's laughing all the way to the bank..

[Russ of the BML]

Antonio has been tired for 2 years, but he still starts him, so not sure why Paqueta couldn't start.

Let's have it right, it is completely baffling what this manager is doing, especially given the claim that he's been watching us for the last year in prep for hopefully getting the job. The Cresswell decision, Soucek & Antonio, how on earth can anyone who has watched us think any of those are good ideas?

All this bollocks about giving him till Christmas, fair enough if you could see some signs, but what the fuck is he even trying to do? We have looked appalling. The Brighton manager is brand new to the league, has a raft of new players, it hasn't stopped them gelling and looking good. He's a kid, yet our 58 year old manager with Premier League experience and a wealth of experience in general has had to resort to a 35 year old Antonio slinging long throws into the mixer, and needs till Christmas to make us look even just half decent, after being given £150mil worth of talent added to the squad? Blimey.

Don't get too hung up on the "Christmas" comment. All my point was is that I only genuinely feel that only then would be enough time for us to truly judge whether Lope is going to be a success or not. 

Age is fuck all to do with it. So comparing him to the Brighton manager and saying he's a kid is ridiculous. By that you mean that older managers should be better than younger managers as they are more experienced. Daft. And for all we know the kid at Brighton may be the next Pep. But Brighton will stumble and hit the skids and then you see what they are made of. 

I agree with you, it's not looked great. I even posted my own concerns with selections and tactics. But its a new era, a transition period, lots of new players....He needs time and patience and then, as I said, only at Christmas will I be able to genuinely judge whether he is the man or not. But one thing I won't do is overlook incompetence and mistakes in the meantime, like some supporters seems to be doing. 

[Massive Attack]

It would seem that Soler is on big wages, and we had to shift enough wages from the wage bill to make room for him.  Could be that Ward Prowse was just the guy we were able to get an offer for, alongside being the most 'similar' to Soler in his all round game.

Shifting Irving probably wouldn't have moved the needle enough, and maybe no one wanted Soucek (plus Ings simply didn't want to leave, which we may end up being thankful for).

Suspect it wasn't a vendetta against Ward Prowse but more the case that we had to make room some how, and clearly did need a player like Soler as Paqueta is under the legal cloud, and when he doesn't play we have no one who can move the ball progresively.  Also expect Ward Prowse didn't want to spend the season on the bench being a 'special teams' player.

If it's genuinely down to wages being all the difference, then OK I can understand that decision, as Soler was the man he really wanted having worked with him before. If that wasn't the case though, then I still disagree with letting Ward-Prowse go. And I don't think both players are similar, as Ward-Prowse offers something uniquely different and valuable to any Squad, as set-pieces are such a crucial part of the game that often makes all the difference and he does it well at a high frequency. 

Now if Soler does go on to rip it up then OK well worth the calculated risk, I just think we're missing a trick letting him go as he offers so much in different ways in the League.

[Full Rug]

Antonio has been tired for 2 years, but he still starts him, so not sure why Paqueta couldn't start.

Let's have it right, it is completely baffling what this manager is doing, especially given the claim that he's been watching us for the last year in prep for hopefully getting the job. The Cresswell decision, Soucek & Antonio, how on earth can anyone who has watched us think any of those are good ideas?

All this bollocks about giving him till Christmas, fair enough if you could see some signs, but what the fuck is he even trying to do? We have looked appalling. The Brighton manager is brand new to the league, has a raft of new players, it hasn't stopped them gelling and looking good. He's a kid, yet our 58 year old manager with Premier League experience and a wealth of experience in general has had to resort to a 35 year old Antonio slinging long throws into the mixer, and needs till Christmas to make us look even just half decent, after being given £150mil worth of talent added to the squad? Blimey.

[Russ of the BML]

Far too early to make any calls on this. 

 

It is, but there are signs. The only clear daylight I can see between him and Moyes at the moment is his willingness to make changes when things aren't working. 

That is a fair assessment. He does make changes when needed, so that's a positive. 

[Russ of the BML]

I am not panicking. I said before the season that its going to take to Christmas to really see where we are under Lope and then I will judge. It will take time for him to get his ideas across and to select the right team to perform the way he wants. He has to mix and blend and find that right selection. 

That said, the Fulham selection worried me. Lope wants to play a more possession based game yet selects Soucek and Antonio. For me, that is contradictory. I was also concerned that he played Soucek, Rodriguez and Alvarez in the same eleven. Very overly defensive with little or no craft from midfield. Especially when you have Paqueta and Soler on the bench. 

Someone said that Paqueta had a long flight back from Brazil and was tired. That's fair enough. Well, then surely you play Soler at the very least. Just so we have some craft and vision and some attacking intent from midfield. I do fear that Lope has and is showing too much defensive concerns right now, which is something that we all desperately wanted Moyes to stop and ultimately got him the push. 

Positives were as the game went on and Lope slowly withdrew the DM's we started to look better. With Paq, Summerville and eventually Soler on we did look sharper on the ball and had more intent. We got our goal, whether it was deserved or not is another argument. So I do hope that Lope has learnt that if you defend properly in the PL and have a team of attacking players you will win more than you lose. I pray to god that we don't have another manager that is insistent on not losing rather than winning.