Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[simons]

Sullivan will gladly spend money nowadays, but usually in the wrong places, and that inevitably means employing the wrong manager. And paying off a manager is a big no no, so fuck knows where he'll go if Loppy doesn't work out. Quite possibly back to Moyes. 

[SUM A DING WONG]

---

cmon mate, appreciate the words but although we are in a new gaff lets not completely forget our morals and ethics which brought us here 

It wouldnt be a football debate unless someone gets cunted off or told they are talking bollocks  

 

 

 

 

You’re not wrong, mate!

I think I was guilty of being a cսnt, for thinking I was being a cսnt - if that’s such a thing

I think all that discussing poxy Brighton yesterday, must have brought out the ‘Queen’ in me.

Who would have thought years ago, we would have been discussing the merits of Brighton and Hove fucking Albion on a West Ham site. 

That can’t be right, can it.

It’s funny, when you wrote “we are in a new gaff” I thought ‘ new gaff?! We’ve been at the LS for 8 years, is it still new?!

Then I realised, you meant WHO.

Fecking eeejit

[Pav BML]

Too early to make any big judgements on him yet, but a lot will come down to his starting 11 on Saturday. If we see Antonio and Soucek starting again, it's going to deflate the crowd before the game even starts. I want to like Mavropanos but ultimately he makes too many mistakes leading to goals, we have to start Todibo soon even if he's not fully match fit. What I do like is he does make the changes and doesn't wait until the 93rd minute to put someone on like Moyes. We are a bit more solid at the back but not looking particularly cohesive going forward. Fingers crossed another early kick off win against Chelsea and we kick on from there. 

[Rossal]

---

cmon mate, appreciate the words but although we are in a new gaff lets not completely forget our morals and ethics which brought us here 

It wouldnt be a football debate unless someone gets cunted off or told they are talking bollocks  

[Lee Trundle]

People still think Sullivan is tight?  hahaha

He's stupid at spending money.  He's not tight.

Pellegrini was one of the best paid managers in the world when he was here.

[simons]

We can’t attract ‘next level’ managers. Whether that’s cause Sullivan won’t pay, or they won’t touch us with him in charge, who knows. That is what is ultimately holding us back though. This bloke has mid table written all over him unfortunately.

[Full Rug]

Shut up you cսnt.

[SUM A DING WONG]

Rossal,

I want to apologise, mate.

I completely disagree with you, but I’ve been replying to you like a prick.

We have differing opinions and expectations and at the end of the day - that’s it. Two differing opinions and expectations on a poxy forum.

I will continue to argue and disagree with people, but I don’t like coming across a bit ‘keyboard warrior-ish’ and ‘disrespectful’ to fellow West Ham United supporters.

Today I have.

X



 

[Sir Alf]

Biggest issue we had with Moyes is he set up his teams and selected players based on “playing with fear”.

Loppy seems to do the same or at least so far that seems to be the case?

Todibo, Summerville and Fullkrug have been with the club for 6 or 7 weeks now I think?  They need to be getting more minutes or starts if we want to play a possession game.  Antonio, Coufal and Soucek cannot play that way. Coufal is probably the best of the three at it but his issue is simply lack of pace. Fulham’s on loan Reiss Nelson came on as a sub and got in behind him 2 or 3 times in 10 mins.  He will cost us goals if he plays. Stavros had played pretty well first 3 or 4 games and was ok for long periods against Fulham but he always has a “rickett” in him. This time he got caught out of position for their goal and played Smith Rowe onside. The only mitigation  factor was that it was a poor Soucek pass that allowed Fulham to launch a fast counter in the first place.

So the question is how Loppy expects the team to keep the ball and get it back quickly when he has picked two old Moyes stalwarts who cannot play that way, and are too slow, or in Antonio’s case, lazy or tired to press too.  We have to hope he saw the problem after 20 mins but for player morale purposes left it to HT to hook the 2 of them?. Its bad enough when a team goes down to 10 after a sending off but it was like playing with 9 at times in that first half.

Chelsea is going to be a “yardstick” for me. Does he get the starting 11 right by keeping the above 3 players on the bench ( assuming Emerson is fit ?) . Look we might lose but if we can see us trying to keep the ball, moving the ball faster, pressing much quicker - and above all else - being able to play thru the opposition press, it will be a positive sign imo. Sure, no one wants to lose any game but at this juncture its almost more important to see some progress in how we play.  

He will have to play Bowen centrally ( I have a sneaky feeling Kudus could cause CBs all sorts of problems so long as he gets balls to feet but that wont happen ) and Summerville , Kudus wide.  Midfield of Alvarez, Rodruigez ( who is getting up to speed more now ) and one of Paqueta and Soler.

Come on Loppy, “you know it makes sense”

 

[SUM A DING WONG]

Sum, 

I think you are making far too many excuses. Jlop has inherited a very good squad and added to it considerably with both numbers and talent. Yet the performances so far have been underwhelming. 

The Brighton boss doesn't really have any right to be outperforming Jlop at the moment. Not sure he has a better squad, certainly doesnt have more experience at management, working with a DOF or of the Premier league as our man so all them excuses don't hold much weight with me. 

Slot was taking over from the best manager at Liverpool in what this century? Bloke won it all, media portrayal was it was such a tough job to take... like taking over from Ferguson and Wenger (they both ended up a disaster) and Slot pretty quickly put an end to all that talk and the players seem to love him. Has had largely postitve results all whilst not signing anyone or working with that caliber of players before. 

Howe took over Newcastle when they were in the bottom 3 if i recall correctly, kept them up then got them into the top 4 season after. Instant impact. 

Lopetegui isnt on a different remit with us, course he has to perform straight away. There's no excuses that it can't be done based on the managers already mentioned. Combine that with no europe this year and an increase in talent in the squad. He has to improve and start stringing some wins together. 

Emery is a great manager, i've not seen anything in the first 4 games to suggest Lopetegui is in the same bracket.  There is no reason why we can't expect big things at the start of the season

 

 

Rossal,

Nearly everything  you’ve just written there, is just more or less what you wrote before - you’ve just re-worded it, in a different way.

You was writing bollocks then , and you’re writing bollocks now. Read my previous answers to you and other posts of mine on the subject, if you want to be corrected again.

The exception, was what you wrote about Howe and Emery.

With regards to Howe, him taking Newcastle out of the bottom 3, is the same as what Lopetegui did at Wolves - except, JL did it with inferior players.

You failed to mention Howe being very mediocre, last season?

Personally, I don’t think Howe being mediocre last season is necessarily a bad thing in the grand scheme of things for Newcastle, as you say he ended up getting Newcastle into the top 4 and he’s started this season well.

Surely though, you who clearly only excepts perfection, must think he’s shit for being mediocre, last season?

Howe has had good moments and not so good moments in his tenure at Newcastle.

Clearly, Newcastle see Howe as a project and are sticking with him. Old school and I like it.

With regards to Emery, he probably is better, but that’s got fuck all to do with what JL is doing here. 

We’d all love it if we’d won all our games playing great football.

But we haven’t. Stop worrying about it.

Us not having a great start, especially with a manager who’s been here 5 poxy mins, is not cause for too much concern.

[kylay]

I still see his approach as pragmatic, and I understand the concerns with the approach. My interpretation of his approach (whether advisable or not) is that he is giving the old guard their chance to retain spots while implementing his style. What we are seeing with this, is an ugly hybrid of Moyes and whatever Lopetgui is trying to do. The advantage to this approach is that the incumbents obviously have the most experience and ostensibly the most chemistry playing together. It also gives newcomers a chance to assimilate to the league and the culture without having the full weight of the results on their shoulders. With this approach, he stands a better chance of building trust with the incumbents and giving himself time with the newcomers. The early results are admittedly not pretty (Fulham in particular), but I also would not expect them to be. However, they have been (arguably) effective or at least passable. 4 points from 4 games isn't exactly a disgrace in the circumstances. Few teams are getting anything against City. Villa are excellent. Fulham is very good.

Many believe that without European football next year, we will lose our best pieces. I'm not entirely convinced of that. If we take some time to get going and even half the season to really start clicking, I think we can retain most of our core provided we start taking some scalps and looking like more than the sum of our parts. Chelsea should be a good test as we will be at home, and I don't think they are playing as well as Fulham. If rumors can be believed, Antonio won't be starting which should give us more tactical flexibility. We will need to keep getting passable results and see progress to build belief.

[Full Rug]

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that he has a big job on his hands, and that he needs time.

My problem is the worrying signs early on. I'm aware a different style of can take time to implement, and I said on the old site that I wasn't happy with the appointment, but I'd get right behind it and give him time, but I just cannot see a world where starting this season with Antonio up top and Soucek in the number 10 position makes any sense whatsoever, and it's a massive early red flag. I could maybe just about stomach it in the first couple of games, but after the international break? I was shocked.

Coupled with the fact that we've looked so disjointed at times, through pre-season and into the season, teams have waltzed through us which would make you think we've been attacking, but we've not been, we've had the 2nd lowest shots on target in the whole league, 2 of our 5 goals in 4 games have been a penalty and an own goal, and one of our main attacking plays is Antonio launching long fucking throws into the box.

I wouldn't have cared as much if we lost the opening 4 games, but you could really see what he was trying to do, and doing it with a load of new talent. Except what we've got is a piss poor Antonio slinging in long throws onto Soucek's nut as our main weapon, and even that's not working. That is pre-historic shit I thought would be the last thing we'd be seeing.

[Rossal]

Sum, 

I think you are making far too many excuses. Jlop has inherited a very good squad and added to it considerably with both numbers and talent. Yet the performances so far have been underwhelming. 

The Brighton boss doesn't really have any right to be outperforming Jlop at the moment. Not sure he has a better squad, certainly doesnt have more experience at management, working with a DOF or of the Premier league as our man so all them excuses don't hold much weight with me. 

Slot was taking over from the best manager at Liverpool in what this century? Bloke won it all, media portrayal was it was such a tough job to take... like taking over from Ferguson and Wenger (they both ended up a disaster) and Slot pretty quickly put an end to all that talk and the players seem to love him. Has had largely postitve results all whilst not signing anyone or working with that caliber of players before. 

Howe took over Newcastle when they were in the bottom 3 if i recall correctly, kept them up then got them into the top 4 season after. Instant impact. 

Lopetegui isnt on a different remit with us, course he has to perform straight away. There's no excuses that it can't be done based on the managers already mentioned. Combine that with no europe this year and an increase in talent in the squad. He has to improve and start stringing some wins together. 

Emery is a great manager, i've not seen anything in the first 4 games to suggest Lopetegui is in the same bracket.  There is no reason why we can't expect big things at the start of the season

[SUM A DING WONG]

Maybe “getting used to the DOF” entails using the squad to really get top performance out of the players selected on the day. And that means taking certain risks, like having faith in certain players and letting them play their natural game. So maybe trying Scarles as full back. Or using Emerson or AWB in midfield if Paqueta is unavailable. Or starting with Ings as a proper nr 9. Or instructing Kilman and others to get the ball to Kudus when he’s in space and ready to go. That kind of thing.

 

 

It’s partly that - although not as extreme as putting AVB in midfield. Never say never, though.

But, it’s more about the club being used to having to have a larger turn over in players, and it not matter, because they’re fitting into a particular system. 

As LT rightly pointed out, JL has been used to being at clubs that use a DOF. 

I bet though, most of them were probably already established in the way their team operates. 

He was probably just following on from the previous manager, with a set way of playing, with all the players in his squad suitable for this.

Here at West Ham, Lopetegui(and Steidten) are going to have to create that from scratch.

That’s not going to be easy. 

They are having to lay these foundations with players, they probably wouldn’t have signed.

In the present, Lopetegui has the shitty end of the stick of trying to find a way of making it work, with players he wouldn’t have chosen himself (Antonio and Soucek, etc)

This is why, in a season or too, we should be minus those players that don’t fit the system and be a lot more established in the the way we play, with a few more decent players added, too.

Lopetegui may well end up being the fall guy in all this, but if he at least manages to lay a few foundations, shift more deadwood - we’ll then be a lot more of an attractive proposition, to the higher calibre of managers out there. 

[Pshyco scored all 4]

After 7 games in the 85/86 season we were in the bottom 3/4 on 6 points .  Yet ended up getting 78 points in the remaining 35 matches  . Not saying for one second it's going to happen again. But who knows. we have seriously good players hopefully lopetegui stops picking the likes of Antonio and soucek. Great servants but pale shadows of the players of 3 years ago . PATIENCE.

[SUM A DING WONG]

I know what it means, mate.

if I’m being thick, I apologise, but i don’t understand what point you’re trying to make in this context?

[Hammer and Pickle]

Maybe “getting used to the DOF” entails using the squad to really get top performance out of the players selected on the day. And that means taking certain risks, like having faith in certain players and letting them play their natural game. So maybe trying Scarles as full back. Or using Emerson or AWB in midfield if Paqueta is unavailable. Or starting with Ings as a proper nr 9. Or instructing Kilman and others to get the ball to Kudus when he’s in space and ready to go. That kind of thing.

[Lee Trundle]

It's a phrase/saying.

Similar to "it's not where you start, its where you end up".

[SUM A DING WONG]

???

[Lee Trundle]

What about "start as you mean to go on"?

[SUM A DING WONG]

That’s correct, Lee Trundle.

That still doesn’t guarantee that he hits the ground running - as I’ve already explained.

It just means he’ll probably make a much better fist of it, in the end, than someone like Moyes - who just stubbornly didn’t want to try and adapt to the system.

Its not about where you start.

Its where you finish.


 

[Lee Trundle]

I'd be VERY surprised if Lopetegui hasn't worked with a Director of Football at most, if not all, of his previous clubs.

Not sure why he needs to get used to working with one.

[SUM A DING WONG]

SUM - Yea I can't argue with that mate, even when I mentioned Brighton I knew really that it was a nonsense anyway, just too many variables, as you point out, to make a direct comparison. let's see who finishes where in May.

Fwiw, I'm not anti Lop, I think he's a very good football person/coach,
doubt there isn't anything he doesn't know about the game, and was fairly pleased when he came in, just hope that he's a good fit for us.
 

Fair do’s, mate.

For what it’s worth, (as I’ve stated umpteen  times on here) if you’d stated that Brighton are better at dealing with a higher  turnaround of players and managers,  then I would have agreed.

It’s not so much who’s got the better manager, us or Brighton. I bet if the new Brighton manager, managed us, he’d find it a lot harder.

It’s about us getting used to the DOF system, then becoming better at using it than Brighton.

At the moment, we’re behind them.

In time, that shouldn’t be the case.

[SUM A DING WONG]

Comma, 

Up until a point, we have to follow the Brighton model - we’re both using a DOF. 

Once we hopefully become more successful (we should be able to attract better players than Brighton) we can then, start to operate differently.

This will mean not having as much of a revolving door of managers/player as much as Brighton, do. 

This should mean we can sustain a higher level of success, more consistently, than a smaller club like Brighton. ​​​​

As for having to qualify for Europe, next season, I don’t think that’s necessarily a must, for Lopetegui. 

As long as we’re playing good football, and not looking like being relegation fodder, it’s not the end of the world. 

If we have to sell Kudus & Paqueta, then so be it (not happy about that, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world). 

We’d then be a year further down the road, with a much stronger squad than last season.

We’d then have a massive budget due to more deadwood being offloaded, plus the Kudus & Paqueta money. 

Then you’d be in an even better position, than this season, to qualify for Europe. 

If we fall short, then we think about hiring a new manager who should then be coming into more of a settled setup. 

The new manager then has a better chance of hitting the ground running - and, more importantly, sustaining it.

[Hammer and Pickle]

„after the reality bending personality cult around moyes, it's a relief to have someone that most WHU fans are generally on the same page about.”

This is true, but he’s got to be careful because a few more openings like last Saturday and they’ll have to start bending it again.