Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[El Scorchio]

I completely agree. All roads always lead back to Sullivan being unable to keep his fucking hands off and leave it to the experts. We will never truly move on until he’s gone because he always reckons he knows better than everyone else or can’t resist a cheaper option and interferes/compromises so many strategic plans and decisions which is why we end up with key members of staff who aren’t on the same page and a squad that’s a jumbled mess.  

[stubbo-admin]

There were plenty of rumblnigs that this was the case at the time, with Noble and Steidten both desperate for Amorim and Sullivan sold on Lopetegui.  No smoke without fire as they say.

Being realistic the club can only modernise so much with Sullivan remaining the defacto day to day chief as he has his way of doing things and his own perspective.

[El Scorchio]

Imagine my surprise that Sullivan is taking credit for the one signing that hasn’t come in for criticism so far. You watch- as soon as Summerville comes in for some criticism he will row that one right back. 

Sounds to me like Sullivan did as Sullivan does and just appointed Lop because he wanted to., regardless of the fit with what Stiedten was trying to accomplish. So apparently we have come right out of a Mexican standoff between him and one manager into another one with another manager. Bravo. 

And yeah, fucking villa around and lowballing for Duran looks like a real fucking smart move now doesn’t it… Bet Sullivan is keeping his gob firmly shut on that one. 

[Lee Trundle]

Good post, stubbo.

I hope Sullivan has some kind of clause in Lopetegui's contract, as it'll be expensive binning him off at the end of this season with the rest of his gang and family he's brought in with him.

[stubbo-admin]

There's a few 'threads' coming out of the club that don't bode well.

1. Balague (who we know is in with Lopetegui) and his assertion that the issues lie 'away from the bench'.  That to me sounds like the issues are with the recruitment/playing staff.
2. Journalists close to Steidten suggesting 'he wasn't my first choice'.  I mean we all know this and that Amorim was who he wanted.  But even so, it's early to briefing in that direction...plus we know Salthouse is his agent.

Listened to the Martin Allen podcast last night and it was pretty clear.  If you're hooking players on 35 mins and 45 mins, it basically means the manager thinks they're not really up to much ('shit' was the term he used).  Afterall, you can change tactics without changing personnel.

Tie that perspective in with the first comment from Balague and then look at our recruitment through non-Claret and Blue tinted specs:

1. Guilerme isn't on the bench.
2. We clearly wanted Duran and he can't stop scoring but screwed up the deal.  
3. All the links to Fullkrug are historical through Steidten.
4. Rodriguez has looked horribly off the pace, and is not being used as the deep lying midfielder that drops between the centre backs.
5. Wan Bissaka is not playing in a way that suits his (well recognised and well respected) game...and we spent the first part of the window heavily chasing Walker Peters.
6. Sullivan now briefing all and sundry that Summerville was his pick.
7. Todibo can't get on the field, and we're preferring last season's second choice (Mavropanos) and even Alvarez at CB over him when playing a 3 at the back system, plus Lopetegui basically saying he's not up to the rigrous of the league.

Seems to me we have two players the manager really wanted (Kilman and Soler), some players it's hard to say actually improve us at all (Rodriguez, Todibo, Fullkrug), a player who is an upgrade but doesn't suit the style of play (Wan Bissaka), a kid who stopped us getting the striker we wanted and isn't close to the first team (Guilerme), and a guy that was picked by the Chairman who probably looks as good as any of the signings (Summerville) but wasn't on the list for either the manager OR the Technical Director.

Two of our best players look totally out of sorts and unable to do what the manager is wanting them to or perform in a style that suits their natural games within the streucture of the side (Paqueta and Kudus), a captain who leads by example but has precious little to say on the pitch and is a bit of a 'quiet boy' (Bowen).

It's all starting to have the hallmarks of a West Ham style massive cluster fuck, which tends to be the way any time we try and do something more 'adventurous'.

[goose]

Just another excuse blaming the players.

They’ve all played for multiple teams in multiple leagues under multiple managers, so let’s not pretend Lopetegui is some kind of visionary playing the game uniquely.

On top of that he’s had a full preseason and 5 weeks of this season to get his ideas across.

enough with the excuses

[Hammer and Pickle]

Maybe I’m clutching at straws here a bit, but he is the first since Zola (maybe Bilić) who is setting us up to play what might be recognised as the modern game. But that requires passing and movement involving wing backs across the whole of the pitch, presenting a challenge to players that they have so far failed to meet. It’s early days yet and so far this season we have played, and largely lost, sides that are miles ahead of us down this road. But I remain confident we’ll get there. Hope, after all, springs eternal. 

[Full Rug]

I can't say that particularly impresses me, just like the ranting and raving on the sidelines, big shrug of the shoulders.

What would impress me, is if we can resemble something approaching a competent team. Be that defensively, attacking, our passing, whatever. Just something, anything, to get behind. The fact I can just about understand him saying it was his fault he fucked up, is about as useful as a cocktail umbrella in a monsoon.

[cholo]

One thing I do like about Lop is, in the presser for tonight he was asked about subbing Guido early on Saturday and he took responsibility for it, saying something like (paraphrasing) "if you sub a player early it's on the manager not the player".

Can you imagine the same question but with Moyes? That player is definitely ending up under the bus.

[El Scorchio]

We are worryingly easy to play through with just a few passes and a bit of movement. We are allowing players to just run at us with the ball. Missed the first goal as I was stuck in a queue at the turnstiles but second and third were similar and so easy. It just seems naive and I’m worried he’s not fixed it yet as it was evident against Villa and in preseason. 

it’s like he wants to build the exact opposite way to Moyes. Get us playing high and sort of pressing but then go from there apart from the players are not ‘there’ at the moment. I don’t really get what he’s actually trying to do. The midfield is so soft and easy to get through.  We get caught wide so often on the right. 

It all looks a bit clueless and directionless at the moment. I’m hoping there will be a lightbulb moment soon but we haven’t looked convincing in any game yet. Even the ones we’ve won. I’m all for giving him some time but there are some alarm bells after that Chelsea game. We just played very dumb. Right into their hands. 

Just posted on the match thread, but head a good Podcast explaining his tactics and where the players are causing the problems bu not sticking to the plan.  Was interesting to listen to and made a decent amount of sense.  Basically through our own actions in attack we're taking our fullbacks out of the game up high, and inviting the type of counter we're struggling with.

That is interesting - cheers! Also saw what you’d written further down and agree. Very insightful. After I’d finally got to my seat the first thing I noticed was Alvarez playing as a third centre back and thought that seemed incredibly weird. 

[Sir Alf]

That analysis makes sense. We have over complicated things too early for most players especially in this 3-2-5 idea with full backs playing as wingers and players not knowingbwho and when to press.  Think they were right about the fact that Paqueta and Kudus and Bowen not playing to the wide overloading full back ( never done it b4) and instead create dangerous turn overs with the attempted Hollywood ball or chip over the defenders trying to create something. Watch City, Rodri just recycles it back and they always look to get wide. That was a good observation. Paqueta especially trying to thread a pass thru the “eye of a needle”.

Agree with the lad who said go back to basics. 4-3-3 with full backs. 

[Lee Trundle]

The players had no idea what to do on Saturday.

It's definitely the tactics and coaching.

[Mex Martillo]

Massive, the point is the starting 11 don’t know what they are doing defensively. Yeh great change the personal around a bit, but if they don’t have it clear how to stop a counter attack it will not make much difference. I think it is a coaching problem and not due to certain individual players.

[Massive Attack]

Discussion on tactics and what we're trying to achieve starts at about 14:50.

Someone should notify Julen of that then because I don't think he even bothered Saturday 

[stubbo-admin]

Discussion on tactics and what we're trying to achieve starts at about 14:50.

[Massive Attack]

Starting 11 was fine. 

It really wasn't. No way I'd want to start Mavropanos ahead of Todibo, nor start Bowen out of his best position and play Antonio now ahead of Ings up front whilst the big fucking German goes sightseeing around town with a poorly foot. I also haven't been impressed with anonymous Rodriguez since he arrived and would want to start Soler ahead of him. Those selections need immediately addressing and assume Todibo can now start if his alleged apps clause doesn't get triggered or whatever that's about, or maybe over a slight knock he's carrying. Need to start our best players now they're here and available to be picked as I can't stomach another game of seeing Mavropanos running around the pitch brainless, or Rodriguez treading in treacle breathing constantly put of his arse chasing shadows, or Antonio kicking it into row ZZZ. Get those changes made, then we can start addressing the tactics that many seems to be struggling to grasp at the minute. 

[Takashi Miike]

Mex ⬇

[Mex Martillo]

We are worryingly easy to play through with just a few passes and a bit of movement. We are allowing players to just run at us with the ball. Missed the first goal as I was stuck in a queue at the turnstiles but second and third were similar and so easy. It just seems naive and I’m worried he’s not fixed it yet as it was evident against Villa and in preseason. 

it’s like he wants to build the exact opposite way to Moyes. Get us playing high and sort of pressing but then go from there apart from the players are not ‘there’ at the moment. I don’t really get what he’s actually trying to do. The midfield is so soft and easy to get through.  We get caught wide so often on the right. 

It all looks a bit clueless and directionless at the moment. I’m hoping there will be a lightbulb moment soon but we haven’t looked convincing in any game yet. Even the ones we’ve won. I’m all for giving him some time but there are some alarm bells after that Chelsea game. We just played very dumb. Right into their hands. 

Just posted on the match thread, but head a good Podcast explaining his tactics and where the players are causing the problems bu not sticking to the plan.  Was interesting to listen to and made a decent amount of sense.  Basically through our own actions in attack we're taking our fullbacks out of the game up high, and inviting the type of counter we're struggling with.

You got a link Stubbo?
It all sounds great to explain it like that and possession has certainly increased. But these easy counter attack goals are happening too often. How difficult is it to manage a team to stop that? Just tell someone to fill that enormous gap between the last defender and Areola and it is sorted. If they do not do it give them a proper cunting. 

[southbankbornnbred]

It has been an awful start, let’s face it. Beating us right now is far too easy. Chelsea didn’t even have to get out of first gear at the weekend. It was painful.

I hope Lopetegui turns it around, as I hate to see any West Ham manager fail. And any new boss deserves a bit more time.

But I said at the time I had reservations about his appointment. Frankly, I think he’s considerably over-rated. His tactical approach is extremely unusual, and requires several key players/positions (especially the full-backs) to do things they’re not used to. It isn’t working right now, and it’s making life far too easy for opponents. Tucking your full-backs inside as auxiliary CBs, and giving so much space and possession to opposition widen is just asking for trouble.

I don’t get why we’d buy a specialist 1v1 full-back like AWB and then ask him to play zonally, tucked in towards his CBs so often. That, right there, is an obvious disconnect between having a Dir of Football buying players and a first team Manager coaching other people’s choices.

Maybe we’ll adapt? Like everybody, I can’t really fathom what’s going on with Guillerme and Todibo. That’s far too much money to spend to have them fucking around on the sidelines or at home. We’re not Man City. Thankfully!

keep the faith. It’s about us anyway.

[stubbo-admin]

We are worryingly easy to play through with just a few passes and a bit of movement. We are allowing players to just run at us with the ball. Missed the first goal as I was stuck in a queue at the turnstiles but second and third were similar and so easy. It just seems naive and I’m worried he’s not fixed it yet as it was evident against Villa and in preseason. 

it’s like he wants to build the exact opposite way to Moyes. Get us playing high and sort of pressing but then go from there apart from the players are not ‘there’ at the moment. I don’t really get what he’s actually trying to do. The midfield is so soft and easy to get through.  We get caught wide so often on the right. 

It all looks a bit clueless and directionless at the moment. I’m hoping there will be a lightbulb moment soon but we haven’t looked convincing in any game yet. Even the ones we’ve won. I’m all for giving him some time but there are some alarm bells after that Chelsea game. We just played very dumb. Right into their hands. 

Just posted on the match thread, but head a good Podcast explaining his tactics and where the players are causing the problems bu not sticking to the plan.  Was interesting to listen to and made a decent amount of sense.  Basically through our own actions in attack we're taking our fullbacks out of the game up high, and inviting the type of counter we're struggling with.

[stubbo-admin]

The Todibo situation is a worry?

Similar to Moyes not playing players he didn’t recommend to purchase? Is this bloke a Steidten “pearl”? And the young Brazilian. Not seen since pre season?  Hopefully both get minutes tomortiw.  Although will be really depressing if both play and look crap


 

Agree on Todibo....but he looked bad against Bournemouth, and we've not exactly been in a game positions to feed someone introductory minutes from the bench thus far.

Guillerme I'm not surprised about and not bothered about seeing yet.  I'm more surprised he's not getting game time with the U21s.  He's only 18, first time out of Brazil, doesn't speak the language, no doubt living in a hotel.  At 18 I could just about make myself a sandwich. 

Whether he was where we should have put a chunk of our cash is a different matter (and not his fault), but he's 4 years younger than Summerville, and I don't think we should be surprised he's not involved much yet.

[El Scorchio]

We are worryingly easy to play through with just a few passes and a bit of movement. We are allowing players to just run at us with the ball. Missed the first goal as I was stuck in a queue at the turnstiles but second and third were similar and so easy. It just seems naive and I’m worried he’s not fixed it yet as it was evident against Villa and in preseason. 

it’s like he wants to build the exact opposite way to Moyes. Get us playing high and sort of pressing but then go from there apart from the players are not ‘there’ at the moment. I don’t really get what he’s actually trying to do. The midfield is so soft and easy to get through.  We get caught wide so often on the right. 

It all looks a bit clueless and directionless at the moment. I’m hoping there will be a lightbulb moment soon but we haven’t looked convincing in any game yet. Even the ones we’ve won. I’m all for giving him some time but there are some alarm bells after that Chelsea game. We just played very dumb. Right into their hands. 

[Takashi Miike]

Anyone using pusillanimous while talking about football is a henry winter level cսnt. It's a shame as I used to like him, he can now fuck off much like his mate if his shit football doesn't improve

[Sir Alf]

The Todibo situation is a worry?

Similar to Moyes not playing players he didn’t recommend to purchase? Is this bloke a Steidten “pearl”? And the young Brazilian. Not seen since pre season?  Hopefully both get minutes tomortiw.  Although will be really depressing if both play and look crap

 

[Manuel]

Lee - Yea a bit cuntish, but at least he did pre warn he won't be entertaining replies, suspect he knew what would be coming and he didn't want to spend all day quibbling with online strangers. Anyway, looks like the grinning cսnt will be pointing the finger elsewhere if his mate fails.

Trouble brewing? Def possible, it happened at Wolves, but this would have to be a different kind of trouble, as he has been backed.