West Ham United vs Spurs (Away) | 19.10.24 | Match Thread

[stubbo-admin]

Match Centre:

Odds:
West Ham: 11/2
Draw: 9/2
Spurs: 1/2

Pre-Match Press Conference:

 Tactical Preview: 
[br][/br]Watch-along:
   

  Live Streams:
https://vipboxs.net/match/soccer/totten ... d/12437038 (With all live streams be mindful they can carry viruses etc.  Don't click on any ads and use a VPN).
 

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

So Pub would you still play Soucek?

I love Soucek, because he cares and gives everything, but he's not good enough to play. Alvarez when he's head's in it is our best midfielder, but even he has lost the plot, so it's why Soucek is playing, 

I feel like Alvarez is one of the only players with an edge to him. Unfortunately today's game doesn't look kindly on that, but (imho) it comes from a place of real passion. Alvarez also give everything he's got and sometimes loses his head in the process. It's a fine line, but if he can walk it, that's a huge asset.

Back in the day..Alverez would be regarded as hard as Darren Anderton or David Kelly

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

Billy Bonds vs Van De Vanker ?

​​​​reckon Bill has his work cut out ..

[claypole]

As a kid you used to get taught how to trap the ball and pass it back but now it seems that clutching your face and throwing yourself to the ground is high on the list of basic fundamentals being taught.

[Lato]

Van De Ven made me laugh the tart.......big lump like that falling to floor like he had been whacked by Mike Tyson instead of little old Kudus.

[Fauxstralian]

Are they saying Van der Venn asked Kudus if he was ‘mental’ or such like?
That was before he got a light slap and lay on the ground as though he was dead.

Van der Venns comment belittling his mental health is obviously a serious offence in this day & age
12 match ban seems fair

[Sir Alf]

Spurs players saying Kudus punched them
It was a girly slap or “palm off” like in Rugby at best.  Hate players trying to get another in more trouble. Real snidey , spiteful stuff. Van De Venn or whatever his name is started the whole shoving thing which is why it all kicked off although Kudus should have just laughed in his face 

[Lee Trundle]

The FA have charged Kudus with violent conduct and acting in an improper manner for an incident "after the offence he was sent off for".


Wonderful.  Looks like it might be longer than a 3 match ban.

[SUM A DING WONG]

The alternative, more constructive and kinder view on Paqueta is that since we rely on him for flow between attack and defence, he is not going to perform well in that role if the whole team is disorganised or in transition to an organised unit. It is also the simple explanation of why a very good player has suddenly deteriorated so much. Also, I say the mitigating circumstances of the bent FA’s “investigation”, which is certainly weighing on his mind, is cause for a real fan to support him rather than find excuses to slag Paqueta off.

We are currently in a ‘perfect storm’ situation.

We’re disjointed and lacking in confidence at the moment.

And the one player who at his best, is probably best equipped with the confidence  to grab hold of the situation and  help put a stop to this.

Is massively disjointed and lacking in confidence.

Don’t get me wrong, we still need the strong Declan Rice type player again, but, an on song Paqueta would massively help out in the short term.

But remember, it’s West Ham. We can’t have everything working well
all at once.

There are laws against this.

[Lato]

I only saw the first half so cannot comment on the 2nd half capitulation. Although we were under the cosh for most of the 1st the half we looked dangerous on the break and gave them problems. Ange obviously rectified it for them in the 2nd half. What is really worrying from our point of few is the form of Paqueta. So far this season he has offered nothing and looks totally uninterested. And yet another booking! ⚒

[stubbo-admin]

Analytical breakdown of the Spurs game:

[Hammer and Pickle]

The alternative, more constructive and kinder view on Paqueta is that since we rely on him for flow between attack and defence, he is not going to perform well in that role if the whole team is disorganised or in transition to an organised unit. It is also the simple explanation of why a very good player has suddenly deteriorated so much. Also, I say the mitigating circumstances of the bent FA’s “investigation”, which is certainly weighing on his mind, is cause for a real fan to support him rather than find excuses to slag Paqueta off.

[Sir Alf]

Nothing not to like about Soucek the person and he was so effective at times for Moyes early on and has contributed with valuable goals at times. 

But if we want to play higher up the pitch, press quickly and transition quick from defence thru midfield ( beating the opposition press ) he simply cannot start in central midfield. Currently, Paqueta cannot be starting in midfield either. Dispossed and bullied far too easily and throws himself to the ground when challenged and caught hanging onto it too long. He had his best spell for us at the start of last season as a deeper lying no8 alongside Alvarez, but not sure he should be risked anywhere now. He’s not been playing well for Brazil either and again been off the pace or guilt of cheap turnovers attempting the “killer ball” thru a compact midfield or defence when its nigh on impossible. He is another who’s passing thru the channels worked better when we were a out and out counter attacking team under Moyes. But even then he would give it away cheaply. Difference then was we had numbers behind the ball to deal with counters his turnovers caused.

We are missing someone with “legs” in the squad who is quick, strong. But we need to try Alvarez, Ridruiguez, Soler as a midfield 3 to see if it stops teams cutting us open so easily in midfield.

Soucek is the perfect inpact sub to bring on if we want to go more direct.  Ideally that would be Antonio’s role as he is too old to last 90 mins in the Preier league now. 

Lets hope Loppys subs recognised that he cannot be starting Soucek and Paqueta this week

[Massive Attack]

Sound investments for me are:

Kilman
Todibo
Wan-Bissaka 

Possible:

Summerville
Guilherme
Soler
Rodriguez

Pissed good money up the wall:

Fullkrug


A mixed bag and arguably some of that praise/criticism will be equally shared with Steidten and very early still to be 100% sure.

It all needs time, that goes for implementing his idea's till they fully get it, or judging him if its going tits up/well. By Christmas we will have a much better idea and like I was expected before the season kicked off that it will still get worse before it gets better with so much that has had to change. 

[Any Old Iron]

Up to now nothing that Lopetegui has said or done has impressed me in any way.  He wasn’t the man  I had in mind to replace Moyes so I wasn’t in the least bit enthusiastic about his hiring.  
These first eight games have been rather uninspiring. I’m not convinced he knows his best side and how best to set it up. All in all I don’t see any improvement on what we had to endure under Moyes in his last six months. 
As with all our managers (apart from perhaps Allardyce) I always want them to succeed and try not call for their heads at the first sign of a bit of difficulty. 
But the club spent a lot of money in the summer and from where I’m sitting very few of them appear to be a sound investment. It’s Lopetegui’s job to get the best out of them and he’s failing to do that.  
So unless we see some serious improvement through the next three games then I’ll be in the Lop out camp.

[SUM A DING WONG]

You tell me, Rossal.

The only reason I can think he’s still picking Soucek, is because Soucek was pissed off being dropped and threatened to sell the incriminating video he must have of one or all of the board members.

I completely understood him being picked in the first few games - to keep him onside, see if he could play a different way, and to let the newer players settle in.

But now, it doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Hammer and Pickle]

Alvarez gets the nod for me because he has a tackle in him. Problem is, he’s a marked man for the FA mafia until he adapts his game. Paqueta can also win the ball but needs to make sure he doesn’t just do it when he’s been dispossessed. Falling over and trying to get a decision when the loss is in a key area won’t do either - that’s a coaching matter.

[Rossal]

“Lopetegui isn’t trying to play out the back, if he was he wouldnt pick Soucek as he never ever shows for the ball or plays close enough to his partner to create that pivot to play out of the back.”

Of course we try to play out from the back.

Hence the reason Areola is fucking up all the time, when trying to play the ball out to the defence, with his feet.

As well as trying to pass out to the full backs, he was also playing out to Kilman and Todibo who are capable of stepping out of defence with the ball(although Todibo unlike the Ipswich game, got caught out doing this a couple of times on Saturday).

Yes, ideally you’d have Paqueta and Alvarez deeper, picking the ball up off the defence - but,  he keeps on picking Soucek.

Yes, we do also knock it longer, to mix it up. May as well try to play to Soucek strengths (even though it didn’t work out that well).

That’s where really, we need Fullkrug up front, as I imagine he’d hold the ball up better than Antonio, to bring the likes of Bowen and Kudus into play.

Ideally, we’d have Duran, but we won’t go there, eh.

1st half, whilst Antonio wasn’t really holding up the ball or winning many headers, when he did manage to get on the ball, he managed to carry it up the field and help the team out or he made runs to create space for others to get into(as pointed out by Peter Crouch).

It’s kind of neither here, nor there, Antonio pressing from the front, at the moment, as you need to have the centre midfielders doing it too.

That’s where Paqueta and Soucek aren’t doing their job.








 

If we are then why does he pick Soucek?   Why is there absolutely no sign of the midfield ever wanting the ball off the defence? 

We don't look like a team thats coached to do anything new in any area of the pitch 

[kylay]

So Pub would you still play Soucek?

I love Soucek, because he cares and gives everything, but he's not good enough to play. Alvarez when he's head's in it is our best midfielder, but even he has lost the plot, so it's why Soucek is playing, 

I feel like Alvarez is one of the only players with an edge to him. Unfortunately today's game doesn't look kindly on that, but (imho) it comes from a place of real passion. Alvarez also give everything he's got and sometimes loses his head in the process. It's a fine line, but if he can walk it, that's a huge asset.

[SUM A DING WONG]

“Lopetegui isn’t trying to play out the back, if he was he wouldnt pick Soucek as he never ever shows for the ball or plays close enough to his partner to create that pivot to play out of the back.”

Of course we try to play out from the back.

Hence the reason Areola is fucking up all the time, when trying to play the ball out to the defence, with his feet.

As well as trying to pass out to the full backs, he was also playing out to Kilman and Todibo who are capable of stepping out of defence with the ball(although Todibo unlike the Ipswich game, got caught out doing this a couple of times on Saturday).

Yes, ideally you’d have Paqueta and Alvarez deeper, picking the ball up off the defence - but,  he keeps on picking Soucek.

Yes, we do also knock it longer, to mix it up. May as well try to play to Soucek strengths (even though it didn’t work out that well).

That’s where really, we need Fullkrug up front, as I imagine he’d hold the ball up better than Antonio, to bring the likes of Bowen and Kudus into play.

Ideally, we’d have Duran, but we won’t go there, eh.

1st half, whilst Antonio wasn’t really holding up the ball or winning many headers, when he did manage to get on the ball, he managed to carry it up the field and help the team out or he made runs to create space for others to get into(as pointed out by Peter Crouch).

It’s kind of neither here, nor there, Antonio pressing from the front, at the moment, as you need to have the centre midfielders doing it too.

That’s where Paqueta and Soucek aren’t doing their job.







 

[Lee Trundle]

One of the positives I was told on here of Lopetegui was that he'd give youth more of a chance.

That isn't happening.

[Rossal]

We need some bollocks in the middle to get on the ball.

Lopetegui isn't trying to play out the back, if he was he wouldnt pick Soucek as he never ever shows for the ball or plays close enough to his partner to create that pivot to play out of the back. 

We also need some legs to press, both in the middle and up front. Antonio's work rate off the ball on saturday was absolutely appalling. The second goal is so embarrasing from his point of view just walking around 5-10 yards from their defenders who have the ball.   

With this in mind put Bowen up top and give Ghllurme a start on the right and lets see Orford given a chance. He can't be worse than Soucek on the ball or energy in the middle. Either start him or bring him on for Alvarez/Rodriguez if one of them is fucked or on a yellow (extremely likely) 

This is why I can't get behind the manager, he has an abundance of outstanding youth players he isn't turning too when the first team squad are playing absolute dogshit week after week. Fed up already of seeing different shit square pegs in round holes. 

[Hammer and Pickle]

Alvarez needs to work out how to do his job without getting carded by a bent ref. It’s a challenge.

[CanningTownWA]

Fair enough Pub, I wish the rest had Soucek’s attitude.
Not sure that one change will make enough difference?

[Pub Bigot]

So Pub would you still play Soucek?

I love Soucek, because he cares and gives everything, but he's not good enough to play. Alvarez when he's head's in it is our best midfielder, but even he has lost the plot, so it's why Soucek is playing, 

[CanningTownWA]

So Pub would you still play Soucek?