We need to talk about... our away support

[Fifth Column]

No doubt I'll get grief for this but here goes... I don't attend a lot of home matches as the atmosphere is dire most weeks.  I go to 80% of away matches. Have been going about 40 years now.  Over the last couple of years I find our away support has started to go the way of our home support. In the past we could get battered by the big clubs and we'd largely continue to out sing them even when we were ####.  Yes I know that wasn't the case in every match but in most matches it was.

Now at away matches unless we're winning we often don't make much noise at all. I never cared that much about winning or losing that match - it was about having a laugh and taking the ####.  Trying to get people singing when we're behind... usually me and my (adult) kids with me and a couple of others.  This is not an "I'm better than you" message.  I just find it sad that even away crowds are losing our edge and energy.  And I know that most other clubs are no better and often worse.  Is it just PL in 2024? Is it because we've often terrible to watch? Am I just a miserable old c###?

[Far Cough UKunt]

Fifth, is this you, you four eyed git? 

[Far Cough UKunt]

Marlon Harewood.jpg

[chim chim cha boo]

Time flies though and as motorcycle racers say 'the older I get the faster I used to be'.

The last 'great' night at Upton Park for me (and don't get me wrong, I had tears in my eyes at the final game, caught in the crush as we attacked the Manc team bus, swept off my feet literally (for the first time in my life- fucking terrifying, once I managed to get over a garden wall in front of the West Stand we were pulling screaming women and their children over the wall with us - it could have EASILY become a disaster and 100% we would have got the blame and 100% 25 years later after an enquiry or two the correct judgement would be called, just like Hillsborough, inept, fucking stupid police herding everyone into a smaller and smaller place, took the edge off the night for me. Even one of our greatest living players BB gave up trying to get there and went home and watched it on telly.

Nope, the last great night at UP for me was the 2-2 draw with Ipswich playoff semi final first leg when Pardew pulled out ALL the stops. The huntsman in his riding pinks sounding the hunting horn as he strode onto the pitch matched exactly the mood of the crowd. It was the first and only time the sheer noise of the crowd has found the resonating frequency of my ears and skull which is really saying something as the drummer in a punk band for fifteen years, drag racing, circuit racing, 190mph wind in your closed Arai making your head shake like you're having a seizure, stars in your eyes and tunnel vision closing in, terrified but laughing like a maniac at the same time, the fucking VIOLENCE of the experience. Or going to Fairford airshow and standing behind a Vulcan as it took off, or a Lockheed Blackbird SR71 putting on its afterburners and making the ground shake. All of those super loud noises were caused by exceptional engineering and millions (and billions) of dollars, yen and sterling. And that night at Upton Park topped the lot. We didn't need money, engines, amplifiers or fancy tricks, we just made the loudest noise I've ever heard. I'm guessing some of you are thinking 'ah, Chim, you've never been in a battle like I have' and you'd have a point, I've only ever even fired a gun once but the point is this noise was made by a bunch of Cockneys wailing and baying their fucking heads off.

It's not me just misremembering or nostalgia creeping in. If, like me you were lucky enough to experience Upton Park under the lights, maybe in the rain on a night when we were all up for it, maybe at home to Millwall when Winston Reid scored and Carlton cole smashed the ball into the away pikeys screaming 'HAVE THAT YOU BUNCH OF FUCKING CUNTS' as we in Chav corner were getting baton charged by the old bill trying to get at the millwall, Palermo, Metz and the brilliant away days abroad including Prague (as I understand, I was just out of hospital and couldn't go) you realise we've lived through a golden age. It's like driving before speed cameras and CCTV up our arses. If the police wanted to stop us they'd have to catch us first. Every cսnt with a dashcam delighting in uploading 'dangerous' driving to the Met website), every tear up filmed by 100 phones for likes on fucking youtube.

Enjoy that Cup lads, nights don't come around like that very often anymore. Savour it and remember the experience will live with you forever, long after you've forgotten how much it cost to get there.

[Massive Attack]

Nice one. You's did us all proud. 

[Fifth Column]

I've got to say that the experience at the match at Newcastle was superb... in terms of our support.  Loved every minute of it.  Singing for close to the whole of the 90s minutes, loud, funny, everything that was always good about going away with West Ham. Yes the performance helped but even when we've gone ahead in recent times we'd be loud for a bit and then often quiet again.  I absolutely loved Monday night - great atmosphere.  Home fans on the other hand were the quietest I've ever heard/seen at St James.

Plus got photos with Carlton, Marlon and Anton and a free scarf to boot.  Great evening out.  COYI.

[wils]

To be devils advocate here, as I personally agree with what's written below, some of this is generational and nostalgia making us forget things. When I started going towards the end of 80s the crowds were small, we weren't getting 18k for some home games and I can remember walking away many a game disappointed with atmosphere and the north bank for not being up for it. I remember a Chelsea friend mocking us even then for 'what we had become' as he was going in the 70s and thought West Ham of the late 80s had gone soft as they no longer feared us going to Stamford Bridge. Then there's my dad's generation which drifted away because of the violence and they would lament that the chicken run no longer swayed like a bunch of school girls when it sang bubbles. When he talks of the away games the stories are more often about how miserable it was: standing with his brother watching the boats over the wall at Fullham away becuase the game and the crowd was so shit. Going up north to Stoke and Birmingham away on a cold rainy day and wondering why he bothered as the team didn't even try. That was in the 60s.

My son started going in the 2010s and just about remembers Upton Park but he never got to see it really jumping (cos lets be honest it could frequently be dull there too) but he remembers the Seville game and some of other good nights at the LS. It's not always shit there. He (and I) loved Man U away in the cup last year even though we lost. I went to the Fulham preseason friendly a few years ago which was great day out considering it was a friendly with non stop singing and flares going off. He can see at his young age the problems with the tourists at LS but his main ire is reserved for those fans who come for the social and not to support the club. The ones missing from their seats before and after half time becuase they are more interested in a beer with their mates. The ones who piss off 15 minutes from the end becuase they want a seat on the train home. Most of those half hearted fans killing the atmosphere are the older fans not the younger ones like him.

Young fans do it differently as they always have and the older generation (which most of us on here are) sneer at them. They are all on Tik Tok sharing videos which most of us think is responsible for killing it, but they love it and they think it's people like us that are killing it.

I worry for West Ham's future (and the game's) the same as everyone here mainly becuase of the demographic change of the country and the area the club draws it support from, but at the same time it needs a bit of perspective. We are the 'has beens' and have some responsibility for the 'decline'.

[Ladysmith]

In all seriousness, you’ve always had that type of supporter (minus the gear). When it was terracing, you could just walk away from them.  Seating, obviously  took that away. The worst thing for me, is the lack of good humour & atmosphere , at the games and  in society as a  whole, in general.   In my opinion, I put this down to  the ‘Americanised, Instagram obsessive & narcissistic society ’ - we live in. Add in people being scared to say anything that might offend. You end up with very dull, and unimaginative fan base ( this also applies to society, too).Really, we should be thankful for the coke heads for making sure there’s any kind of atmosphere at all, eh! 

Bugger,

I was still editing & writing this post.

I want to complain to the management, NOW!! 

Ooh I do like the cut of your Jib!

[WHU(Exeter)]

It’s the same with most things, not just football that’s changed. I loved going to away games especially for reasons already stated by others. Stopped going a few years ago as I could no longer justify the expense. Last away game was one up at Newcastle and I noticed a lot in the away end seemed more interested in checking their phones etc etc, than watching the game/creating an atmosphere. I wondered why travel all the way up there, if you’re not going to watch a lot of the game, but each to their own.

it’s all over though isn’t it? Gigs have changed too, with more trying to film it, take photos, chat to each other, than actually just appreciate and get fully into it. 

[Dick Shaftsbury]

Another thing - with the amount of American owners in the Premier League now, expect "the football experience" to get much worse in the next decade.

Hold on to those memories of the 80s and 90s and even the early 2000s.

[cup of tea]

I might as well jump in on this.....

I was a ST holder from 1993 to the last season at UP. IEven when we were utter shit, and that was more than when we were having a purple patch the support both home and away was always brilliant. Sure, there were a few that spoilt it for the majority with their blatant disregard for other supporters and chants that went being being 'banter' (the Tottenham song about gassing the Jews for example) and no I don't want to debate that chant, I stand where I stand and so would the majority of civilised supporters.

As this is specifically about away games I would say that up to the early 00's the support was brilliant, maybe it had something to do with demographic and social media only being in its infancy, maybe it is about real hardcore fans being priced out or simply not able to get tickets anymore and maybe, more than anything, the life and soul of the club has been ripped out and been 'cleansed' of working class supporter in place of day trippers and families. Families should be included of course but football away games were primarily about meeting up with the lads away from the missus for an away game, getting tanked up and having a laugh, that simply does not happen any more - an away game now requires military planning and you are frightened to say or do anything for fear of being nicked.

Let's have this right, the start of the demise came to fruition the moment it became a business first and game second (SKY etc), next came the abolition of terraces which I am still bitter about, no one can tell me otherwise standing on an away terrace supporting your team, scoring a goal, the surge etc isn't missed and seats create any atmosphere - they don't, seats are shit, always will be. Safe standing won't change that, safe standing isn't a terrace.

I'd go on and on but I won't as I need a shit.

Our away support .... yeah, its still one of the best but its nothing like it was, sanitising the game has seen to that. It's done.

[Mad Ferret]

Too many home county cunts these days (Essex particularly, obvs).

More interested in their hairstyle than the football.

[side effect]

Atmosphere went the season they seated the west lower. Why couldn't they have built behind the south bank to accommodate the theatre goers.

Another masterstroke coming up and lowering capacity and atmosphere.

This club
 

 

[SUM A DING WONG]

In all seriousness, you’ve always had that type of supporter (minus the gear). When it was terracing, you could just walk away from them.  Seating, obviously  took that away. The worst thing for me, is the lack of good humour & atmosphere , at the games and  in society as a  whole, in general.   In my opinion, I put this down to  the ‘Americanised, Instagram obsessive & narcissistic society ’ - we live in. Add in people being scared to say anything that might offend. You end up with very dull, and unimaginative fan base ( this also applies to society, too).Really, we should be thankful for the coke heads for making sure there’s any kind of atmosphere at all, eh! 

Bugger,

I was still editing & writing this post.

I want to complain to the management, NOW!! 

[SUM A DING WONG]

In all seriousness, you’ve always had that type of supporter (minus the gear). When it was terracing, you could just walk away from them.  Seating, obviously  took that away. The worst thing for me, is the lack of good humour & atmosphere , at the games and  in society as a  whole, in general.   In my opinion, I put this down to  the ‘Americanised, Instagram obsessive & narcissistic society ’ - we live in. Add in people being scared to say anything that might offend. You end up with very dull, and unimaginative fan base ( this also applies to society, too).Really, we should be thankful for the coke heads for making sure there’s any kind of atmosphere at all, eh! 

[SUM A DING WONG]

Was waiting for that one, as it happens mate you're wrong about that. I couldn't give a fuck about swearing, my old man has been going home and away since the late 60s (packed it in now) and took me home and away from late 80s when i was around 7 myself. Obviously in terraces you could move away, but in seats that's not really possible.

All the older chaps around my lad in past aways would obviously be swearing at times but each to a man would then make a little joke after when they remembered they were next to a little child once they'd calmed down. I don't expect it at all, but it's a classy touch which i've come to expect from the west ham hardcore over the years.

The lads next to me at Forest we out of their head on the gear and endlessly shouting that pretty much every player / ref was a 'cսnt' as loud as they could on loop, for no real reason, despite the fact they were right next to a little boy. I've never seen that, even when i was a pain in the arse pissed up idiot in my teens and 20s at away games, i'd still be a little bit mindful of what i was shouting out (if i could) if i was next to small children or older women.

Was waiting for that one, as it happens mate you're wrong about that. I couldn't give a fuck about swearing, my old man has been going home and away since the late 60s (packed it in now) and took me home and away from late 80s when i was around 7 myself. Obviously in terraces you could move away, but in seats that's not really possible.

All the older chaps around my lad in past aways would obviously be swearing at times but each to a man would then make a little joke after when they remembered they were next to a little child once they'd calmed down. I don't expect it at all, but it's a classy touch which i've come to expect from the west ham hardcore over the years.

The lads next to me at Forest we out of their head on the gear and endlessly shouting that pretty much every player / ref was a 'cսnt' as loud as they could on loop, for no real reason, despite the fact they were right next to a little boy. I've never seen that, even when i was a pain in the arse pissed up idiot in my teens and 20s at away games, i'd still be a little bit mindful of what i was shouting out (if i could) if i was next to small children or older women.

You’re a better man than me.

When I grow up, I want to be just like you, mate.

[WHUDeano]

Was waiting for that one, as it happens mate you're wrong about that. I couldn't give a fuck about swearing, my old man has been going home and away since the late 60s (packed it in now) and took me home and away from late 80s when i was around 7 myself. Obviously in terraces you could move away, but in seats that's not really possible.

All the older chaps around my lad in past aways would obviously be swearing at times but each to a man would then make a little joke after when they remembered they were next to a little child once they'd calmed down. I don't expect it at all, but it's a classy touch which i've come to expect from the west ham hardcore over the years.

The lads next to me at Forest we out of their head on the gear and endlessly shouting that pretty much every player / ref was a 'cսnt' as loud as they could on loop, for no real reason, despite the fact they were right next to a little boy. I've never seen that, even when i was a pain in the arse pissed up idiot in my teens and 20s at away games, i'd still be a little bit mindful of what i was shouting out (if i could) if i was next to small children or older women. 

[SUM A DING WONG]

I used to go most aways and had a season ticket for about 20 years until I left the country for a decade. Now living in the cotswolds with 3 little kids so only tend to go to away within an hour or two of here. Definitely noticed a big difference at Forest away last season compared to previous years, I just put it down to being unlucky with who we were around. At Villa away a few years ago I had my 5 year old with me for his first game and everyone around us were great, apologising for swearing in front of him, making him feel a bit special - real old school type of feel to it, how I remembered it when I was little. 

Forest away we were surrounded by lads in their mid 20s with fake tans, perfectly manicured, silly flat cap hats, properly charged off their heads, half of them screaming 'fucking cսnt/cunts' as loud as they could every couple of mins. I had my now 8 year old with me again and I wasn't too impressed after a while, they clocked he was there as we walked in front them getting to the seats - he has no idea what it means or that it's a dodgy word, but I still thought they seemed like the biggest bunch of mouthy cunts I've almost ever seen at West Ham. Would have pulled the lad next to him if it continued but they disappeared somewhere else after half time. No one singing, no atmosphere, all of them absolutely out of the game, one puking up, all obviously nipping to the toilets every 10-15mins. Downstairs at half time it looked like half the crowd were similar types.

Made me question taking him away again for a while, will go again to Villa Park in Jan potentially, but if it's shit and full of new breed wankers again, I'll probably knock it on the head and take him over to Cheltenham from time to time instead. 

You’re exactly right mate.

Our supporters in the 70’s and 80’s would never have dreamed of swearing in front of children.

They just wouldn’t have sworn, full stop.

Imagine the ICF hearing our lot swearing in the crowd - fuck me, there would have been murders on the terrace.

Apologies for the swear word, by the way.

[side effect]

Atmosphere went the season they season the west lower. Why couldn't they have built behind the south bank to accommodate the theatre goers.

Another masterstroke coming up and lowering capacity and atmosphere.

This club

[WHUDeano]

I used to go most aways and had a season ticket for about 20 years until I left the country for a decade. Now living in the cotswolds with 3 little kids so only tend to go to away within an hour or two of here. Definitely noticed a big difference at Forest away last season compared to previous years, I just put it down to being unlucky with who we were around. At Villa away a few years ago I had my 5 year old with me for his first game and everyone around us were great, apologising for swearing in front of him, making him feel a bit special - real old school type of feel to it, how I remembered it when I was little. 

Forest away we were surrounded by lads in their mid 20s with fake tans, perfectly manicured, silly flat cap hats, properly charged off their heads, half of them screaming 'fucking cսnt/cunts' as loud as they could every couple of mins. I had my now 8 year old with me again and I wasn't too impressed after a while, they clocked he was there as we walked in front them getting to the seats - he has no idea what it means or that it's a dodgy word, but I still thought they seemed like the biggest bunch of mouthy cunts I've almost ever seen at West Ham. Would have pulled the lad next to him if it continued but they disappeared somewhere else after half time. No one singing, no atmosphere, all of them absolutely out of the game, one puking up, all obviously nipping to the toilets every 10-15mins. Downstairs at half time it looked like half the crowd were similar types.

Made me question taking him away again for a while, will go again to Villa Park in Jan potentially, but if it's shit and full of new breed wankers again, I'll probably knock it on the head and take him over to Cheltenham from time to time instead. 

[Pav BML]

Absolutely spot on I was thinking the same, even at 1-0 up on Saturday it didn't really get going. I remember turning up to every ground away and win lose or draw we'd make a racket. The games I couldn't go to, you could hear the fans loud and proud on the TV. I don't agree it's the level of football either, I remember taking plenty of hidings under Allardyce where you would be lucky to have 1 shot and still singing while losing. Even some of the European games I've done like Bucharest (winning 3-0) and Larnaca (2-0) our fans barely got going. I made a mistake taking my foot off the gas with away games when we went to the new stadium and now I struggle to build my points back up. I think the closed club with the points system mean it's unlikely to improve anytime soon (one successful ballot in 2 years with plenty of attempts). I do think away supports have got worse in the prem but we are miles off being one of the best anymore. It's a shame as you get the odd one where it's non stop like Villa for the 1-4 a couple of years back and we usually have a good away support at the likes of Palace and Chelsea. Spurs new ground I haven't been in a decent away end. I think back to the 0-3 and it was non stop even before we got the first in 2nd half whereas the home end was silent. That can only help the team and now it feels way too result/performance dependent

[Farnsbarnes]

Its been going quickly downhill since we left UP for me. The European games brought with them a nice change but its all so samey now. Round of bubbles and nothing until we score. Also, we are so unimaginative with anything that gets sung especially with any new players *noise* player name *noise*

 

[Ladysmith]

Standing on the Holt end during that fa cup semi final against Forest in 91 will live long in the memory 

"Billy Bonds claret and blue army" being proudly sung at the top of the voices non stop and.completely drowning out the forest celebrations as they tore our ten men apart.

If anything empitomised what being a West ham fan meant it was that day.

Pride Passion and togetherness.

The only away game I can get a ticket to these days is saints away with my mate in the home end.
 

Yeah great days around that time we use to go down every 3 years!

[Frankie Pankie]

It comes through ok on the tv when I'm watching from VEGAS but Bin Column is right, the fans lose interest faster. I doubt the Villa Park v Forest thing would happen these days.

[Gary Strodders shank]

Standing on the Holt end during that fa cup semi final against Forest in 91 will live long in the memory 

"Billy Bonds claret and blue army" being proudly sung at the top of the voices non stop and.completely drowning out the forest celebrations as they tore our ten men apart.

If anything empitomised what being a West ham fan meant it was that day.

Pride Passion and togetherness.

The only away game I can get a ticket to these days is saints away with my mate in the home end.

[smartypants]

I had over an 8 hour round trip on Saturday due to trains being messed up, spent over £200, didn’t get into ground until after we’d scored and then got charged £17 for 1 beer and some chips at the bar.