Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[threesixty]

Primary flaw in Lop tactics is high line with overlapping wing backs to create overloads. BUT… not having the pace and strength and legs in midfield to cover / prevent counter attacks if / when the opposition breaks thru our press from the front ( which is erratic with a 34 year old being part if it then fading 2nd half).  Paqueta losing it regularly and Areola unable to distribute with his feet over distance leading to it going straight back is suicidal. Why? Because that super sloooooow central midfield cannot press anyway and doesnt.  Rodruiguez, Paqueta and Soucek as a combo is just not suited to the Premiership’s pace and intensity.  The bigger problem is none of the central midfield seem to have the legs, pace needed.

in short, huge tactical to squad profile mismatch.  The ugly truth is we’d be better adopting a more deep lying, Moyesball low block.  But initially stop Emerson and Wan Bassaka bombing on as wing backs.  Back to square one? Problem with Moyesball was that without overloads via wing backs you struggle to get around teams and cannot press or play thru them either, surrender possession and rely much more on countering and set pieces.  Which incidentally Nuno has implemented at Forest successfully as he had at Wolves initially when he first went there and had 2 good seasons in the top 8.   

A mate of mine, a Forest fan, said the football is dire though.  At Wolves after 2 seasons Nuno tried to chamge their style from low block due to Wolves fans unrest about the style. Sound familiar?

There is the challenge. To play a possession, pressing game we need the right type of players esp in central midfield. We aint got all of the pieces of the jigsaw and unfortunately they cost a lot of money because they are quick, physically strong and have legs to get up and down like Caicedo, Bissouma, Tonali, Fernandez, Sarr etc.   

Last roll of the dice might be trying Alvarez and Soler in the mix with either Rodruigez or Soucek. But means Loppy dropping Paqueta and one of Rodruiguez or Soucek or all 3.

wont happen imo and Loppy will continue with the misfits for his system and lose his job by Xmas 





 

 

 

I think you’ve hit upon a problem I’m noticing with the PL in general. It’s like there’s two types of fans. Fans that want the points and therefore the prestige of staying and challenging in the top league. And fans who want to see great football and don’t mind not competing for the top things all the time. 

I’m probably the latter. I think it’s just boring to watch your team play week in week out play crap football just for the points. I feel like it’s almost become are art form through Jose etc, that crap football is actually an amazing tactical choice. I don’t believe that. 
I think it’s just the easy way out for coaches who feel they don’t have the players or they don’t know how to coach fluid, attractive football. 

I think JLO could ask for more of the 1st half at spurs with a bit more concentration and less high line stuff. And we would probably do pretty well. But do we really want that long term? I dunno. I’d rather spend a season or so working out how we play better football. 

Also, it took Porch a very long time to get Chelsea to gel. You could say he had an excuse but many didn’t believe him. But in the 2nd half of last season Chelsea clicked. What we see in Chelsea now is a lot of Porch’s hard work. 
so maybe we are all being a bit naive giving 10 games to this guy?

Either way I think he’s staying unless he ends up bottom 3 after Xmas. And I really can’t see that with our squad. I don’t think we are getting worse, it’s just that we aren’t improving as fast as we should be. 

[Frankie Pankie]

The best managers out of work right now that are within our range...

Potter
Allardyce 
Moyes
at a stretch Southgate 

Loppy fits the bill for Sullivan (not us), if it costs him a tenner to get rid its £9.50 too much

[northbankboy68]

Hopefully, given what a genius of a businessman Sullivan is he will have a clause in the contract that says "Any time the team occupies a relegation position in the league the club can terminate the contract without severance payment". If not, why not?

[Hammer and Pickle]

Think he’s trying to say we need to play our game and not let the opposition play theirs.

I think we’re in trouble.

[northbankboy68]

Can anyone on here please either translate or explain what the fuck this below (lifted from the official website) actually means?  I am at a complete fucking loss.  What's more, I still cannot fathom how the board were impressed by a candidate spouting this kind of mumbo jumbo.  FFS!

"Right now we have nothing, so we have to work very hard, be focused, believe in ourselves, and be ready to compete in the best way to be able to win the match.We have to improve our consistencyWe have to improve in our consistency because we are playing against different teams, because in each match a lot of things happen and there are key points, that sometimes work in your favour and sometimes against, but for sure we have to try to be more consistent and to play better, too. This is my aim."

[Come On You Irons]

Jacob Steinberg in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... hed-revamp

Lopetegui, under growing pressure before a tricky run, is said to harbour concerns over his squad’s attitude. Lucas Paquetá, who has been charged with a breach of betting regulations (he denies wrongdoing), looks unfocused.So much has to change and the question is whether Lopetegui can inspire. There is alarm at board level. There is a sense that a buck-passing operation is under way. Steidten was involved in bringing Lopetegui to David Sullivan, West Ham’s biggest shareholder, but it is interesting that reports in Germany have suggested the former Dortmund manager Edin Terzic is being lined up if results do not improve.While the strength of that link has been downplayed, it adds to the sense of instability. Steidten won his battle with Moyes. He has been backed and given power. Excuses run thin. After overseeing a spend of more than £100m, Steidten cannot have any complaints if questions are not only being asked about Lopetegui’s job security.

Interesting article and Steinberg echoes everything I pointed out all summer regarding the ridiculous, disastrous summer transfer window.

I can see 'loser Lop' and 'guru Tim' both being bombed out at this rate. A pair of total charlatans.

[kylay]

Some say, we need to give him and the team time. True, but how long? He and the team have had since the summer to iron out any problems, change style of play etc. Its not as if they only meet up down the park once a week. These are professionals, surely, they can adapt?



 

I'd say that's THE question.

I want any West Ham manager to do well. But I was always sceptical about Lopetegui - I think his achievements are modest and he's failed more often than succeeded. And, having seen the team, and him, in action since the summer, I think we're on a hiding to nothing with him.

So, disruptive though it would be, I'd be inclined to pull the trigger on a bad experiment unless we take a decent haul of points from the next three games: Man Utd, Nottm Forest and Everton. Realistically, I'd expect a minimum of six points from those games after the supposed new dawn. But having seen us since Lopetegui took the reins, it is unlikely. And then I'd chop him.

After Everton, we play Newcastle then Arsenal and I would not wait until we've lost both of those games to get rid of him. I'd want those to be a couple of pressure-less games for a new boss, to give him a start where he's not necessarily expected to win points straight off and points would be a bonus. It would also have to happen before Christmas, because the squad is a fucking mess and needs some tidying up in January.

I see a lot of sense in this assessment. I was (and still am to some degree) ready to offer Lopetegui a long leash given the task he had at hand, but we are deep enough into the season now where I expect to see some positives. Wins against Ipswich and Palace, while not given, are hardly impressive. The draw at Fulham was about as lucky as they come, and Brentford was adequate. I think more worrying than all of that is the rumored discord in the dressing room. As I saw it, he appeared to be giving chances to the established players in what I can only assume was an attempt to build chemistry and maintain harmony. If that is already failing, it's hard to see how he survives. Next 3 games should be a barometer of that.

[Russ of the BML]

Agree with Russ about younger managers. We are an aging and outmoded team. We were under Moyes too but we were occasionally able to get some decent results by being a negative, low possession counter attacking team. Lop is worse. He’s not all in with the modern emphasis on speed, energy and pressing, and we can’t bloody defend any more either. As useless as Avram Grant and presumably he’ll hang on like a bad smell for just as long. 

The price of evolution is giving up total control. And unfortunately. Nobody leaves the scene without kicking or screaming. You can be a despot ruler. Or a loving parent. You will always cling to habits that has ensured your'e survival. Even if it destroys the very thing you are trying to hold on to.

Philosophical, but very true. 

[Russ of the BML]

Without sounding like I am jumping on the Steidten bus, I thought it was known that Steidten wanted Amorim and Sully wanted Lope. Steidten managed to get Amorim in, but he for talks but he wasn't impressed with Sully (unsurprisingly). So it could be that, whilst Stieidten wanted Amorim, he will work perfectly well with another manager. But then, if that manager fails, who takes the blame?

It raises good questions about (already asked below) in that, if you sack a manager do you sack the TD also, or not? 

[onsideman]

Yeah... semi-rhetorical question really, southbank

I'm just unsure why he's still getting a relatively free ride. The Steinberg article is pretty accurate imho

[wils]

Jacob Steinberg in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... hed-revamp

Lopetegui, under growing pressure before a tricky run, is said to harbour concerns over his squad’s attitude. Lucas Paquetá, who has been charged with a breach of betting regulations (he denies wrongdoing), looks unfocused.So much has to change and the question is whether Lopetegui can inspire. There is alarm at board level. There is a sense that a buck-passing operation is under way. Steidten was involved in bringing Lopetegui to David Sullivan, West Ham’s biggest shareholder, but it is interesting that reports in Germany have suggested the former Dortmund manager Edin Terzic is being lined up if results do not improve.While the strength of that link has been downplayed, it adds to the sense of instability. Steidten won his battle with Moyes. He has been backed and given power. Excuses run thin. After overseeing a spend of more than £100m, Steidten cannot have any complaints if questions are not only being asked about Lopetegui’s job security.

[southbankbornnbred]

Jalopy is Head coach and that definition leaves room for the technical Director role with no overlaps.

That might well be right, comma. But can you then explain exactly who is responsible for the transfers/signings - and how that breaks down?

[,]

Jalopy is Head coach and that definition leaves room for the technical Director role with no overlaps.

[Lato]

It makes you wonder what Kretinsky makes of all this. After a sizable investment in the club he remains forever silent in the background. You would think he would want to have a word with the Dwarf wouldn't you?

[southbankbornnbred]

And does Steidten go too?

Fair question, that OS. I'm not sure I know the answer as, let's face it, few of us fans really know to what extent the poor (so far) signings were made by Lopetegui, Steidten, Sullivan or any combination of them. Maybe a poster with some genuine inside info, or insight, could help out.

But it's one of the reasons why I still find the "director of football" or "technical director" role a bit weird for English clubs.

The ony thing I would say about it, personally, is that if you're going to have a technical director type role at your club, over which there is some say about signings, then you'd expect that person/role to stick around beyond any one manager. It would be really odd to have an expectation that if any one manager fails (and Lopetegui will get a bit of time yet) then you have to replace both him and the technical director at the same time.

You'd basically be admitting you've got two "managers" equally culpable for results. Which really would be pointless. I'm not sure I like the blurred boundaries between manager and tech director. But it's what we have.

[onsideman]

And does Steidten go too?

[southbankbornnbred]

Some say, we need to give him and the team time. True, but how long? He and the team have had since the summer to iron out any problems, change style of play etc. Its not as if they only meet up down the park once a week. These are professionals, surely, they can adapt?


 

I'd say that's THE question.

I want any West Ham manager to do well. But I was always sceptical about Lopetegui - I think his achievements are modest and he's failed more often than succeeded. And, having seen the team, and him, in action since the summer, I think we're on a hiding to nothing with him.

So, disruptive though it would be, I'd be inclined to pull the trigger on a bad experiment unless we take a decent haul of points from the next three games: Man Utd, Nottm Forest and Everton. Realistically, I'd expect a minimum of six points from those games after the supposed new dawn. But having seen us since Lopetegui took the reins, it is unlikely. And then I'd chop him.

After Everton, we play Newcastle then Arsenal and I would not wait until we've lost both of those games to get rid of him. I'd want those to be a couple of pressure-less games for a new boss, to give him a start where he's not necessarily expected to win points straight off and points would be a bonus. It would also have to happen before Christmas, because the squad is a fucking mess and needs some tidying up in January.

[greenie1]

Some say, we need to give him and the team time. True, but how long? He and the team have had since the summer to iron out any problems, change style of play etc. Its not as if they only meet up down the park once a week. These are professionals, surely, they can adapt?

As for Lopetegui, I can't understand what he is saying in his pre match interviews and instantly turn it off.

I really was hoping for good things this season and a turnaround of the poor performances of last season, but at the moment, I just can't see it.

Bowen - fantastic player, but captain? was this Sullivans idea?, being an England international and West Ham captain, in Sullivans eyes this puts more value on the player when he is sold.

Fingers crossed we turn over Man U at the weekend.

[RBshorty]

Agree with Russ about younger managers. We are an aging and outmoded team. We were under Moyes too but we were occasionally able to get some decent results by being a negative, low possession counter attacking team. Lop is worse. He’s not all in with the modern emphasis on speed, energy and pressing, and we can’t bloody defend any more either. As useless as Avram Grant and presumably he’ll hang on like a bad smell for just as long. 

The price of evolution is giving up total control. And unfortunately. Nobody leaves the scene without kicking or screaming. You can be a despot ruler. Or a loving parent. You will always cling to habits that has ensured your'e survival. Even if it destroys the very thing you are trying to hold on to.

[Forest Gate Ugly]

Agree with Russ about younger managers. We are an aging and outmoded team. We were under Moyes too but we were occasionally able to get some decent results by being a negative, low possession counter attacking team. Lop is worse. He’s not all in with the modern emphasis on speed, energy and pressing, and we can’t bloody defend any more either. As useless as Avram Grant and presumably he’ll hang on like a bad smell for just as long. 

[Come On You Irons]

Sadly, after going through my usual instinctive period positivity, I can now clearly see that this appointment is a fucking disaster. When you look around younger managers and what they are doing, it just pains me. Wasted opportunity. I just can't see us improving enough under Lope. 

Some of us saw all summer that the appointment would be an utter disaster. And some of us called it right that the summer transfer window dealings were also disastrous.

[Russ of the BML]

Sadly, after going through my usual instinctive period positivity, I can now clearly see that this appointment is a fucking disaster. When you look around younger managers and what they are doing, it just pains me. Wasted opportunity. I just can't see us improving enough under Lope. 

[southbankbornnbred]

It is absolutely the money, mate. He doesn't like to pay compensation on top of wages.

I think it's the case that, in all of his time as a chairman at Birmingham and West Ham, Sullivan has never appointed a manager who was under contract elsewhere. Somebody else on here might know better, though.

But I think we all know that Sullivan tends to look for the cheaper option with appointments. I guess I'm saying that appointing a Championship manager would still be much cheaper than trying to lure Frank, Silva or McKenna etc out of their Premier League deals.

[,]

When starting this thread maverick wrote “I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play”.

Well here we are eight games in bobbling along at the rate of one point a game and there are no positive signs yet that we have moved on as a team from the last couple of seasons.

the defence is as leaky as ever, we don’t seem to defend as a team, we have not either re arranged or purchased in a way that enhances our midfield to be even adequate when attacking or defending. 

And worst of all we are still resorting to Antonio up front.

it seems jalopy is taking as long as our incoming players to find his feet and during this time it is noticeable how several of our indigenous players, most noticeably Bowen, are playing below their best.

We know the modus operendi of our owners, where they learned a valuable lesson from hanging on to Avram Grant, and that means when Sullivan thinks the risk of relegation is more likely by keeping faith with a manager than ditching him the axe will be wielded. 

 

[wils]

Add to that Sullivan's obvious reluctance to buy "big name" managers out of their contract due to the cost, and it's a much smaller pool. 
 

I don't think it's money. I think they don't want to associated with grubby prick like him. They just wont come even if he pays them what they want. Even Moyes gave me the impression he was holding his nose signing the contract.