Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[southbankbornnbred]

Like all fans (I hope), I was delighted by Sunday's result.

But I'm not kidding myself that it improves Lopetegui's standing: we could very easily have been 4-0 down at half-time and not been able to complain about the scoreline. Our defending in the first-half was diabolical and Lope's tactics were so far short.

Credit to him, though, because he changed things and introduced some pace to the side, which forced Man Utd to defend a little deeper and us a little higher.

Sunday was daylight robbery. But I'll take it. Jury's still out on Lope, though. Let's see how he goes in the next few weeks.

[Massive Attack]

The only thing that saved us from being a goal down inside of 2 minuets on Sunday was the fucking crossbar you simpleton.

So we didn't fucking concede then if they didn't score between the posts, THUNDERCUNT... 

[stubbo-admin]

Well I for one am more than happy to see us carry on as we intend to go with having a lot more possession and believe it will benefit us a lot in the long run once it becomes more and more familiar to the players. When we get it right in possession it looks much better. 

It's when we aren't in possession of the ball conceding easily is when it's looked bad but that can be worked on as a Team, as well as playing the right formation and ditching a Keeper who made us play already a goal down within the first 10 minutes of most matches this season. Already that's improved with the reintroduction of Fabianski with Areola taken out the side and all his errors going with him with the ball at his feet, or goals flying past him for fun early doors.

But surely we can see what has worked is when we've dropped our defence a bit deeper? Not been so aggressive with the full backs...essentially 'rowed back' from Lopetegui's defaults, and utilised our actual strengths which are wide forwards and a striker that love to run in behind.

Our best football has been in transition when we draw the press and use the space from a slightly deeper position (mid block 4-4-2 structure). The danger has been when we push really high.

Not suggesting a reversion to Moyes encampment in the 6 yard box, but our fullbacks show they don't have the final ball for all their good work progressing from box to box and our current striker lacks in-box intelligence.  So our major threat is in transition where we have allowed the opposition to move slightly higher up the pitch and forced a turn over with space in behind.

It's what we were doing in the early days of Moyes when he only played sitting deep against the perceived 'big teams' instead of against everyone in his latter times (thank fuck he's gone).

Think Lopetegui has some learning to do about what the current squad are actually able to do and what makes us most effective. Hopefully he starts trying it from the off instead of always having to pivot at half time.

[THUNDERCLINT]

The only thing that saved us from being a goal down inside of 2 minuets on Sunday was the fucking crossbar you simpleton.

[Massive Attack]

Well I for one am more than happy to see us carry on as we intend to go with having a lot more possession and believe it will benefit us a lot in the long run once it becomes more and more familiar to the players. When we get it right in possession it looks much better. 

It's when we aren't in possession of the ball conceding easily is when it's looked bad but that can be worked on as a Team, as well as playing the right formation and ditching a Keeper who made us play already a goal down within the first 10 minutes of most matches this season. Already that's improved with the reintroduction of Fabianski with Areola taken out the side and all his errors going with him with the ball at his feet, or goals flying past him for fun early doors.

[stubbo-admin]

I think you miss the point.

The suggestion isn't that they're all low block counter attack sides....but that there is a movement to not being obsessed with short-only passes, which was in vogue, but a movement to being happy to drop into more of a mid-block, and then look to play the ball into space on the counter more often than was the case previously.

[Massive Attack]

The Analytic boys are stat obsessed. Not everything they number crunch is exactly what happens. 

Arsenal, Man City, Villa, Liverpool, Brighton, Chelsea, Newcastle and Spurs are quality possession based sides not afraid at all at holding on to the ball and dominating sides when in possession. 

It's definitely the way we should also be going if we want to improve and stick with Lopetegui's methods. 

[goose]

I think you’re changing the question you asked mate. You said “What evidence do you have that anyone he's unearthed has been turned down?“

Anyway, Duran was little known last summer and a 20 year old still not a regular starter at Villa. Sullivan wouldn’t approve the extra £5m required…

Not changing anything really. The previous post referred to unearthing "those exact future Kante like players on the cheap". Seems clear to me.

At £40m and with multiple clubs bidding, John Duran wasn't that, whether we'd got him or not

Ibrahim Osman is a decent shout, but we did pay almost £10m more for Guilherme instead apparently at Steidtens direction. 

I've seen no evidence of him (or his brother) being pearl divers, repeatedly finding gems but being knocked back

Yup.
I reckon I could have “unearthed” Kilman, AWB, Summerville and Fullkrug.

[stubbo-admin]

Interesting observation at end of the Analytics United breakdown podcast today.

Evidence is that most of the league below Man City are moving in the direction of a more direct approach and away from a possession heavy approach...just at the moment we're going in the opposite direction.  A bit like we arrive at the party just as it's being shut down.  The only other teams retaining the possession heavy, control through ball dominance style, being Wolves and Southampton!

This is being measured by how far the ball is being progressed by teams over how long they're in possession (time). The more the ball moves forward in a short space of time, the more 'direct' it's deemed...and obviously with our high line, commit players forward attempted approach, this is pretty much kryptonite.

They make the point that the one game where we played a top team and looked more 'in the game' (City) was because they didn't follow this direct approach and so didn't expose what we're doing/trying to do nearly as much.

Same old West Ham...late to the party and behind the times.

[onsideman]

I think you’re changing the question you asked mate. You said “What evidence do you have that anyone he's unearthed has been turned down?“

Anyway, Duran was little known last summer and a 20 year old still not a regular starter at Villa. Sullivan wouldn’t approve the extra £5m required…

Not changing anything really. The previous post referred to unearthing "those exact future Kante like players on the cheap". Seems clear to me.

At £40m and with multiple clubs bidding, John Duran wasn't that, whether we'd got him or not

Ibrahim Osman is a decent shout, but we did pay almost £10m more for Guilherme instead apparently at Steidtens direction. 

I've seen no evidence of him (or his brother) being pearl divers, repeatedly finding gems but being knocked back

[Massive Attack]

One situation which has unfortunately hampered Lopetegui (and us) is the demise of Paqueta because of the betting scandal constantly playing on his mind. Such a shame he never had the opportunity to select Paqueta without any of the off field nonsense as I'm sure he would have made a world of difference, especially in an attacking set-up geared towards his game. That player just isn't there these days and he needs to be taken out of the limelight as he's clearly not coping well with how his performances have dropped off a cliff. And not just that but he's actually killing us by gifting the ball to the opposition far too easily as well.

Ever since the start of the season it's felt to me like we're playing with ten men carrying him in the side and Lopetegui has probably hoped he'd eventually play through it due to his quality, but it's just not happening.

When the time is right, after a prolonged spell out of the starting line-up then reinstate him but only after gradual reintroduction from the Bench. I think he'd also benefit a great deal given half an hour cameos against tired opposition and with much less pressure to perform. It'll also make him miss playing and hopefully reignite some form and passion for playing again. 

It's not like we don't have plenty of options to play players in his absence either and have recently liked the idea of playing Kudus in the No. 10 position in a 4231..

........................Fullkrug

Summerville.....Kudus......Bowen

..........Rodriguez........Alvarez 

That looks far more balanced, playing to everyone's  strengths with everyone firing on all cylinders once Kudus returns soon, rather than continuing to carry Paqueta as we have been for so long now. Just can't continue to do it in the Premier League. 

I reckon Kudus would be in his element too played centrally picking up the ball running towards a defence with the ability to go either way, driving them mad with his ability. Those 3 attacking midfielders behind 1 of our Strikers looks a frightening prospect and the thought of bringing on an eager Paqueta with less pressure to perform looks the right way to go once Kudus is back. 

Now should Paqueta suddenly turn it on as he fears for his place enough when Kudus soon returns and Lopetegui manages to get the best out of him again then happy days, as you were, but I just don't see it and think the change needs to happen that suits everyone in the meantime. 

[El Scorchio]

However, its yet again down to recruitment and budgets.  Going to cost £50 - 75 million just to get the quality central midfield player we need with the legs and speed unless we can unearth another Kante for £5-10 million as Leicester did ( hence why good recruitment allied with budget is necessary).  Ironically in another “sliding doors moment” under Sullivan’s ownership, didnt we have the chance to purchase Kante ahead of Leicester but opted for some other Sullivan agent recommendation ? I think I saw someone mention that on here ?
 

Yup, I believe that's correct with Kante. This is the real problem. Sullivan's back slapping and doing business through his mates will always hold us back because that's his priority rather than doing objectively the best thing (Don't we have Lop in the first place because a connection to one of his mates?)

The real galling thing is we have Stiedten at the club to find those exact future Kante type players on the cheap, but what's the point if when he identifies someone he wants, the owner will decide not to trust his expert and go with what his mates suggest instead?

As I always say, the real problem at the club is right at the top. Everything else is just a sympton.

Unearthing like this cheap future midfield Kante type, you mean...

https://www.whufc.com/news/west-ham-uni ... adou-kante

We can but hope!

[Adsiron]

I think you’re changing the question you asked mate. You said “What evidence do you have that anyone he's unearthed has been turned down?“

Anyway, Duran was little known last summer and a 20 year old still not a regular starter at Villa. Sullivan wouldn’t approve the extra £5m required…

[stubbo-admin]

 

The real galling thing is we have Stiedten at the club to find those exact future Kante type players on the cheap, but what's the point if when he identifies someone he wants, the owner will decide not to trust his expert and go with what his mates suggest instead?

As I always say, the real problem at the club is right at the top. Everything else is just a sympton.

What evidence do you have that anyone he's unearthed has been turned down?

Wasn't there also that Ghanaian lad last season that Sullivan decided was too much bunce (15m) to take a punt on? Ibrahim Osman?

[onsideman]

Let’s start with John Duran shall we?

 

 

Erm... weren't we talking about him unearthing unknown gems?

Try again

[Pshyco scored all 4]

Let’s start with John Duran shall we?

He was turned down because on paper the asking prices was too much. It's nice to have hindsight. 

 

 

The club had the money. The dwarf always thinks he knows better.

[Sir Alf]

Forest play Moyesball, deep block but very fast counters and a big lump up front.  NunoBall could arguably be kryptonite to Lops high line, advanced win backs system supported by a one paced central midfield. Morgan Gibbs White marauding thru midfield, long ball to big Chris Wood who flattens Todibo and Kilman? Hopefully not but they seem ideally suited to exposing the huge swaths of space we leave when we lose it. 

[Hammer and Pickle]

The whole point of Guilherme is as a backup for either Kudus or Bowen. This is the time to play him.

[Swiss.]

Let’s start with John Duran shall we?

He was turned down because on paper the asking prices was too much. It's nice to have hindsight. 

[dealcanvey]

Want him to give Guilherme some proper game time

Cant see this happening. He has the best two players at the club infront of him for that position. Was a questionable signing at the time spending 25m on a player that we dont really need. Money that should have been spent sorting out our ST situation properly.

[Adsiron]

Let’s start with John Duran shall we?

[onsideman]

 

The real galling thing is we have Stiedten at the club to find those exact future Kante type players on the cheap, but what's the point if when he identifies someone he wants, the owner will decide not to trust his expert and go with what his mates suggest instead?

As I always say, the real problem at the club is right at the top. Everything else is just a sympton.

What evidence do you have that anyone he's unearthed has been turned down?

[Lato]

Where is Come on you Irons?

[Hammer and Pickle]

Want him to give Guilherme some proper game time

[RBshorty]

I'm absolutely convinced we're going to have a strong second half to the season.  The N17 mob will struggle juggling Europe and how postecogluu sets up . They were out on their feet in the second half of last season without European football. While we will massively improve once he knows his best 11 . Pacqueta is a worry . Brilliant player but woefully out of form currently. Once he clicks so will we . Only mentioned the yids . As bad as weve been were only 2 points off them . 

You could be right. If he finally gets a settled eleven and we start to find some momentum then we could surprise a few. Hopefully Jimmy Summerville makes that left side his own. Kudus to come back and play centrally. Get Fullkrug back to see what he could do. 

Things can only get better.  

Don't be daft. If it wasn't for Fabs, Polish Gypsy Curse. Working a charm in the first 45. None of us would be having this conversation. Forest will bring us back down to earth. With a BUMP.!!!