West Ham vs Arsenal | League | 30.11.24 | Official Match Thread

[stubbo-admin]

Match Centre:

Odds:
West Ham: 13/2
Draw: 4/1
Arsenal: 10/21

Pre-Match Press Conference:
https://www.youtube.com/live/tk8ulBEl9yc[br][/br]Tactical Preview: 
https://youtu.be/5vpFbgNCeQ4

Watch-along:
TBA

Streams:

https://vipboxs.net/match/soccer/west-h ... l/12436914

https://sporthd.live/match/slg-onl-West ... Tnv9y4j2ys

(With all live streams be mindful they can carry viruses etc.  Don't click on any ads and use a VPN).
  

[Mex Martillo]

The thing that upset me most was how easily Arsenal controlled the ball. When we got the ball it was desperate clearances that just returned to ball immediately to Arsenal or pathetic attempts to play the ball that broke down with the first passes. It's getting tiring seeing this so often.

Two stunning goals and some good periods of play in the second half was a consolation, but on the whole a massive step back.

What a pass from Soler to Bissaka. We have a good player there, seem to me too long since we had a midfielder who can do that.

[goose]

 

So if you ship 5 goals but scored 2 it always means you played no quality football at all within the 90 minutes? Right …
 
and who said it was “acceptable”. I just said I saw some good play from us at times.
You said you saw nothing good. Im just questioning what made you say that. 

way too binary.. 

 

this is what you said:
“I actually enjoyed the game because normally when we ship 5 goals we look like abject shit. We didn’t this time.”

we absolutely looked like abject shit. We were 4 nil down before we touched the ball in their box. We lost the game in 35min of abject shit. Playing one “world class pass” is completely pointless at 4-0 down.

 

Opinions are like arseholes obviously …

I think we looked shit in the first 30 minutes as we shipped the 4 goals but we had some fight after that and showed some good stuff that I think we can take into the next games. 
The game was a right off pretty early on so I’m looking at the future. 
everyone’s different but I’m bored of moaning all the time especially if I can see something positive to take from things

if we spank leciester than all this will be forgotten. A game where we were never going to get a point from regardless. 

 

 

Someone should have told Newcastle & Bournemouth not to bother trying next time they play arsenal. You seem to accept losing a game inside 30min.

”never going to get a point from”? Have a word with yourself.

[THUNDERCLINT]

Why is this fucking cսnt still here? It doesn't take 12 hours to fill out a P45. Get it fucking done today Sullivan you fucking degenerate, midget felching cսnt.

[Ron Eff]

It is so ridiculously narrow minded to bleat on about money spent on the defence and put all blame on those four players.

Completely overlooks the lack of protection in front of them. Completely overlooks the tactics of our full backs being asked to play as wingers when we’re attacking.

The centre halfs, whatever your opinion on them, are exposed beyond belief and that is why we are so easy to score against. It wouldn’t matter if we had prime Cannavaro and Nesta there. 

And even if you were criticising the centre halfs, its fucking weird Kilman is the target and Todibo gets a free ride when the latter has been much, much worse. Yeh he’s on loan, but its well documented it doesn’t take much to convert to permanent, at a not dissimilar fee to Kilman. 

I don’t think Kilman is the next coming, but he is not “a pile of shit”. In a more tactically astute team, he is perfectly good enough. 

But then I don’t have agenda to be proved right after slating the signing from day one. 

[Texas Iron]

Odegaard and Saka were key to the early lead…and final result…

Why no tight marking of them and a few old school hard but fair tackles to put them off their game early on…???

Games gone soft…all tippy tappy… nice guy defending…

Need a strong arm enforcer against these creative players…



 

[Lee Trundle]

What was it, £75m or more spent on the defence this summer? 

,

[Pshyco scored all 4]

A club that has spent close on £500m since the summer of 2022 . really shouldn't be conceding 5 goals at home to anyone without serious questions being asked . This manager is every bit as poor as roeder and grant . Completely unsuited to the premier League.  

[Manuel]

The fact that we shipped 5 goals AT HOME in a single half of football and some people are making excuses??. WTAF? Never mind the ref, that is unacceptable on any level. The "improvement" in the second half was on account of Arsenal going on cruise control as opposed to us mounting a comeback.....Nothing but a convincing performance against Leicester can save Loppy now.

This site has always harped on about referee's. We don't need a convincing performance at Leicester, a 0-1 will do it.

It's just a pity these days that when we play Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea a lot of our fans expect to lose and when we do just shrug their shoulders. We're a a disgrace in terms of our fanbase and the state of this club, is that what we moved for?

I don't think "that's what we moved for" - demand outstripped supply as far as match attending footfall was concerned and meeting that attendance demand was a big driver.

What I do feel has changed is the percentage of "supporters" who have never, ever, been to a ground to watch a game, yet have equal access to the internet to spout their bollocks. That is purely driven by the amount of football freely available (on the media) 7 days a week for most of the year.

When you physically attend a game, you, by the very action, have to invest time, energy and money into it; when you watch on TV/computer/phone/tablet, that investment is not there, neither is the experience of a "true" supporter; such fans, as I shouldn't really use the term "supporter" here, never gets to feel the full spectrum of experiences such as travelling back home, on fucked-up public transport. after losing away at Grimsby on a cold, wet, winter's Tuesday evening.

That, like the stench that hits you when you first step off a plane (or leave the airport) in New Delhi or Mexico City can never be delivered by the media.

Struggling to get home on a cold Tuesday night in winter after losing at Grimsby, now that sets the wheat from the chaff.

Currently posting from Phu Quoc in 'Nam. OK here, but nowt special.

[Mike Oxsaw]

The fact that we shipped 5 goals AT HOME in a single half of football and some people are making excuses??. WTAF? Never mind the ref, that is unacceptable on any level. The "improvement" in the second half was on account of Arsenal going on cruise control as opposed to us mounting a comeback.....Nothing but a convincing performance against Leicester can save Loppy now.

This site has always harped on about referee's. We don't need a convincing performance at Leicester, a 0-1 will do it.

It's just a pity these days that when we play Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea a lot of our fans expect to lose and when we do just shrug their shoulders. We're a a disgrace in terms of our fanbase and the state of this club, is that what we moved for?

I don't think "that's what we moved for" - demand outstripped supply as far as match attending footfall was concerned and meeting that attendance demand was a big driver.

What I do feel has changed is the percentage of "supporters" who have never, ever, been to a ground to watch a game, yet have equal access to the internet to spout their bollocks. That is purely driven by the amount of football freely available (on the media) 7 days a week for most of the year.

When you physically attend a game, you, by the very action, have to invest time, energy and money into it; when you watch on TV/computer/phone/tablet, that investment is not there, neither is the experience of a "true" supporter; such fans, as I shouldn't really use the term "supporter" here, never gets to feel the full spectrum of experiences such as travelling back home, on fucked-up public transport. after losing away at Grimsby on a cold, wet, winter's Tuesday evening.

That, like the stench that hits you when you first step off a plane (or leave the airport) in New Delhi or Mexico City can never be delivered by the media.

[Manuel]

The fact that we shipped 5 goals AT HOME in a single half of football and some people are making excuses??. WTAF? Never mind the ref, that is unacceptable on any level. The "improvement" in the second half was on account of Arsenal going on cruise control as opposed to us mounting a comeback.....Nothing but a convincing performance against Leicester can save Loppy now.

This site has always harped on about referee's. We don't need a convincing performance at Leicester, a 0-1 will do it.

It's just a pity these days that when we play Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea a lot of our fans expect to lose and when we do just shrug their shoulders. We're a a disgrace in terms of our fanbase and the state of this club, is that what we moved for?

[nychammer]

The fact that we shipped 5 goals AT HOME in a single half of football and some people are making excuses??. WTAF? Never mind the ref, that is unacceptable on any level. The "improvement" in the second half was on account of Arsenal going on cruise control as opposed to us mounting a comeback.....Nothing but a convincing performance against Leicester can save Loppy now.

[Mike Oxsaw]

We lost by 3 goals to a team challenging for the Championship.

The surprise is that people are surprised.

[Leavemyarcelona]

Just got home from this shit performance.  We showed no fight other than 10 minutes before half time when it all kicked off in the stands we started showing some aggression on the pitch. I'd love to know what the instructions were at half time my guess is go easy out there and don't show any aggression. Why was summerville subbed at half time?  

Arsenal fans showed how thick they are thinking its ok to sit amonst us and celebrate. Talking of thick fans why are some fans singing west ham are massive when we are 4-2 down ? 

Exactly. The club have announced they are working to identify the "offenders". The biggest offenders is the club allowing away fans into the home end

[Manuel]

I expected a big defeat, but under no circumstances should a team concede 5 at home to anyone in the first half.  Fuck right off

Since you were expecting a bit defeat would have it been OK to have conceded 5 overall?

[Massive Attack]

Fucking dogshit from the player's, manager and that biased wanker Taylor allowing Arsenal to take the piss the way they did with all their play acting and time wasting antics.

Lopetegui fucked up big time though sending the boys out in such a gutless stand offish fashion 1st half giving them way too much respect. 2nd half better. Proper fucked me off that and deserves all the stick he's getting for that performance, in the stand or not no excuses for it. 

Only one's I thought came out with any credit with both our Full Backs Wan-Bissaka in particular and Emerson too before taken off injured I suspect. The rest were a shower of shit and undone a lot of good work up at Newcastle. 

[Sir Alf]

At half time, Arteta seemed to shift to protecting his players from injuries etc, and thinking of upcoming fixtures, thinking the game was effectively won. Alvarez coming on did strengthen us a bit  but we went largely into a "damage limitation" set up. No surprise second half was just a damp squib. Suited both sides to some extent.

Comparing to last season and even earlier games this season (and trying to be positive), we didn't get carved open so easily. Its probably the proverbial "clutching at straws" but we got undone by a set piece ( they have a set piece specialist and 20 odd goals from them already ) and even that on another day may not have been given.  2 pens which get given one game not the next. Thin margins that might have gone our way on another day with another ref ?

The worst 2 goals were the non tracking of Saka by Emerson (and others) as he walzed thru and got on the end of a simple lob over the top and the slip / bad misjudgement by Kilman for their 4th. 

As concerning, was how we just sat back or simply could not get near them to get the ball as they passed around and thru our midfield.  Soucek and Paqueta had games where, despite trying, they were an obvious weakness in midfield against a team like Arsenal. Paqueta was a liability again tbh,  lost it up at their end before they broke on us to score on one goal and obviously too easily pushed ( illegal maybe but should have put up more of an effort) on their first and dangled a leg for Saka to simulate and go to ground over to make a ref like Taylor give a pen. He brushed his leg but nowadays they give a pen. Naive and needless.  So Paqueta had a part in 3 of their goals albeit 2 directly.    Soucek was what many of us warned he will be in many games, anonymous, and couldn't compete with their speed of movement. He really cannot start every game but there is not really a clear candidate to replace him. Alvarez possibly but he has been worse in many games with rash challenges and is yet another central midfielder who is challenged for pace.   Soler was not great but the best of the 3 central midfielders and sadly our quickest ( low bar ).  Merson ( yes he is an irritating twat ) was spot on that their midfield would blow ours away with its movement to win the game and largely that was the case in the sense we couldn't play out of defence and couldn't get the ball back when they had it. And they won every second ball.

For me, we are currently 2 or 3 better quality players short in the first team ( centre mid, forward) and 5 or 6 in the squad as a whole, away from competing at the top 6 end of the league even if we have a more savvy coach / manager.  Harsh ? The truth often is.  But, with player and coach recruitment not being one person's job ( eg Steidten is not a DOF ), it will be more by luck than design that we ever  improve materially from where we are while Sullivan remains as the controlling shareholder with power of veto.  This last sentence remains the biggest hurdle to progress just as it has throughout the last 14 years.  Sullivan gets in some decent players at times I accept that. But that's not the issue, its the fact he's even involved that is.  Its simply not a strategy for success and progress. 

Sullivan's tenure summarised:
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[iphammer]

Just got home from this shit performance.  We showed no fight other than 10 minutes before half time when it all kicked off in the stands we started showing some aggression on the pitch. I'd love to know what the instructions were at half time my guess is go easy out there and don't show any aggression. Why was summerville subbed at half time?  

Arsenal fans showed how thick they are thinking its ok to sit amonst us and celebrate. Talking of thick fans why are some fans singing west ham are massive when we are 4-2 down ? 

[BRANDED]

Turd 

[RBshorty]

This was a free hit. After Monday. Everyone excepted this to be the final nail in Lopetegui coffin. Before Newcastle. Nothing was learnt, that none of us didn’t know before this. But one thing is pretty clear. Mikel Arteta is one Charmless Nurk.!

 

 

 

[Hello Mrs. Jones]

We have to learn how to.pass the ball to a player wearing the same shirt

[threesixty]

Are you mental? You think shipping 5 at home is in anyway acceptable? 

When & where did I mention Moyes or preferring 22% possession?
You’re either suffering some kind of episode or you should stay away from football as it’s just not for you.

 

So if you ship 5 goals but scored 2 it always means you played no quality football at all within the 90 minutes? Right …
 
and who said it was “acceptable”. I just said I saw some good play from us at times.
You said you saw nothing good. Im just questioning what made you say that. 

way too binary.. 

 

this is what you said:
“I actually enjoyed the game because normally when we ship 5 goals we look like abject shit. We didn’t this time.”

we absolutely looked like abject shit. We were 4 nil down before we touched the ball in their box. We lost the game in 35min of abject shit. Playing one “world class pass” is completely pointless at 4-0 down.

 

 

Opinions are like arseholes obviously …

I think we looked shit in the first 30 minutes as we shipped the 4 goals but we had some fight after that and showed some good stuff that I think we can take into the next games. 
The game was a right off pretty early on so I’m looking at the future. 
everyone’s different but I’m bored of moaning all the time especially if I can see something positive to take from things

if we spank leciester than all this will be forgotten. A game where we were never going to get a point from regardless. 

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

 

Kilman isn’t an issue. You made your comment when he signed and you’ll forever double down on it if he makes a mistake. You’ll never praise him for good performances, so your view becomes redundant. He was excellent against Newcastle for example. Where was your commentary on him then? Or Palace?

 

 

Kilman is an issue. He's been an ever present in a side that is letting in almost 2 goals a game. In a side that is performing so badly you agree the manager needs to go. We let 3 of last season's 4 CB's go this summer for that very issue.

Kilman was poor defensively against Palace and we were lucky not to have been two nil down before Wan Bissaka came on. His contribution for our second goal in bringing the ball out was a fantastic moment but the weakness in our defending is a major problem, and why we are struggling.

If somehow he comes good over the next 6 1/12 years, i'll happily admit so though.

“Take that pile of shit Kilman with him” - I’ll standby that comment being one from an idiot.

There are many reasons we are conceding. Kilman is not the main factor. It’d blindingly obvious that the lack of midfield is the biggest problem. Todibo, who I also am not writing off, had been far worse. Why do you not comment on him? Was it Kilman’s fault Todibo scored a catastrophic own goal against Spurs?

You’re a wally mate. You were anti Lopetegui and Kilman from day one and you won’t ever change that view. Lope needs to improve or go, sure. But Kilman is mostly fine. 

 

 

I never said he was the main issue. I said he's shit and never worth the 45m and 7 year contract. Him being a third of our budget is a big issue though as it's not paying off for a manager that wanted to build a defence around, and part of the reason we had less budget for our midfield.

Todibo has been disappointing but he is on loan. Like Wan Bissaka though I think they are both very good players other teams around and above us might want to take. 

If you think Kilman's great and worth every penny, fine. We'll see offers for him in the summer when our  underperformance gets the bigger clubs sniffing around our best players.

[Mad Dog]

I expected a big defeat, but under no circumstances should a team concede 5 at home to anyone in the first half.  Fuck right off

[Sir Alf]

Bowen was one of our worst players on a day where most of our players were struggling.  Antonio is 35 and it shows in games against like this, Soucek tries but his lack of mobility and speed is exposed and the same for Paqueta who did try too but wanted too much time and space.  We could not press them due to a collective lack of speed and stamina on the day. They won every second ball and were quicker to everything and midfield was lost. That is the area we so lacking in energy, youth, pace, power.  But we have all said before that you cannot support carrying 2 or 3 players not able to pass and control at the very highest level. It will mean the team cannot cope against the best.  I saw Antonio unable to control it, same with Soucek and later Ings, Summerville even Bowen passing to no one. Arsenal to a man did not waste possession.  That is helped when you have a Rice and Odeguard, Saka etc. constantly on the move making passing options.  We don't have that.  Yes coaching may be part of the problem but its as much to do with the personnel, players we have in comparison.   2 or 3 clearly inferior players has a big impact at the top level of the game although , on the day, we also made their job easy with 2 pens and a howler from Kilman who totally misjudged a simple ball over the top.

Need a player to replace what we lost when Rice left to give us power and energy in central midfield.. That's one of the highest priorities but also a strong, quick striker who can control and pass the ball a lot better than Antonio.   Another keeper too seems to be required next season. 

Before the game, many of us expected a defeat but were hoping to at least give them more of a game this time.  A marginal improvement at best and certainly the victory on Monday is now evidently no "corner being turned".  Our squad still needs improving and possibly our coaching too but we will know more on that after Leicester, Wolves and Brentford because Sullivan will be doing nothing just yet.

Would a different coach get more from this squad?  Not really sure it would even if we changed back to a more defensive approach ( we had 9 behind the ball anyway ) we would likely be beaten just as comfortably by the top teams.  What we had  to do was run relentlessly but we didn't seem to be able to or were simply too slow.. Looked like we were still knackered from Monday to me too. It was far too passive early on and the game was over by the 30 min mark.  Yes a slight rally but Arsenal always had another gear.

Same as it ever was really, we remain a long way off becoming a top 6 or 8 team.  We don't have a strategy or football philosophy like Brighton or a progressive owner. Our squad does not have lots of young, hungry players schooled in a consistent tactical approach from youth thru u21s to first team.  There is no sign of joined up thinking and reflects Sullivan, "yesterdays man" left behind who still thinks its the 1990s.  

Steidten said it was a 5 year project to transform this club but he vastly underestimated the Sullivan factor and the weakness of the squad, the strength of the Premier league.  That Conference cup win and 3 years of euro qualification looks like it was just an anomaly now. 

 

[Ron Eff]

 

I had the opinion that he isn't worth buying, not even at 25m. Our defence isn't better for him. He hasn't done anything to prove me wrong. The same as when I pointed out Lopetegui would be the wrong man, of which you now concede he obviously isn't too.

6 1/2 more years of this bloke being our centre back, as no club will ever be interested in taking him.

 

Kilman isn’t an issue. You made your comment when he signed and you’ll forever double down on it if he makes a mistake. You’ll never praise him for good performances, so your view becomes redundant. He was excellent against Newcastle for example. Where was your commentary on him then? Or Palace?

 

 

Kilman is an issue. He's been an ever present in a side that is letting in almost 2 goals a game. In a side that is performing so badly you agree the manager needs to go. We let 3 of last season's 4 CB's go this summer for that very issue.

Kilman was poor defensively against Palace and we were lucky not to have been two nil down before Wan Bissaka came on. His contribution for our second goal in bringing the ball out was a fantastic moment but the weakness in our defending is a major problem, and why we are struggling.

If somehow he comes good over the next 6 1/12 years, i'll happily admit so though.

“Take that pile of shit Kilman with him” - I’ll standby that comment being one from an idiot.

There are many reasons we are conceding. Kilman is not the main factor. It’d blindingly obvious that the lack of midfield is the biggest problem. Todibo, who I also am not writing off, had been far worse. Why do you not comment on him? Was it Kilman’s fault Todibo scored a catastrophic own goal against Spurs?

You’re a wally mate. You were anti Lopetegui and Kilman from day one and you won’t ever change that view. Lope needs to improve or go, sure. But Kilman is mostly fine.