Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[Gentile]

The German 9 hasn't had anywhere near enough match time for people to make a fair judgement. Those slagging him off are the same clowns that Boo wins. 

The manager hasn't lost the players which says something and they are grinding results out for him.whixh bodes well. 

The club is run by a a monster munch handed gaul and until that changes our signings will continue to be based on his ghastly sons managerial career on the latest version of Football Manager. 

Irons. 

[goose]

The fellow clearly doesn’t want to play an all-out striker and has used variously Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen in the most advanced central role, with only very limited success. Meanwhile this, plus the instance on relying on Soucek in the heart of midfield, has led to insipid, disjointed and basically chaotic attacking play, which is clearly paying a heavy toll on players’ and fans’ morale. OK, we’ve had an unbeaten run but unless Lotepegui finally stops tinkering and starts playing a balanced line-up, this is really going to be as good as it gets.

Give it up you desperate fool.
You completely ignore all the times Antonio started, and the fact that Fullkrug has been either injured or plain shit.

and you’ve just made up some more shit about Paqueta playing at #9 which never happened.

[Hammer and Pickle]

The fellow clearly doesn’t want to play an all-out striker and has used variously Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen in the most advanced central role, with only very limited success. Meanwhile this, plus the instance on relying on Soucek in the heart of midfield, has led to insipid, disjointed and basically chaotic attacking play, which is clearly paying a heavy toll on players’ and fans’ morale. OK, we’ve had an unbeaten run but unless Lotepegui finally stops tinkering and starts playing a balanced line-up, this is really going to be as good as it gets.

[Alfs]

I see Sullivan looks like he is throwing Steidten “under the bus” as many predicted. 

I haven't heard this news but after the last window I'm not at all impressed with TS.  Fulkrug is a waste and the young Brazilian kid has failed to impress, according to reports, which is a waste of 50 million.

I'm not defending Sully here, just saying how it is.

[Texas Iron]

Shambolic…


What do you expect from a Barrow Boy Owner…

[nychammer]

I see Sullivan looks like he is throwing Steidten “under the bus” as many predicted. He didnt want a DOF, waited for his first bad xfer ( Fullkrug ) and now blaming the failure to rectify the mess Moyes left on Steidten even though 3 people were sharing the transfer picks which is a farce in the first place. 

No blame to Sullivan for picking the wrong manager against Steidyen’s advice. No blame to Sullivan for vetoing moves for Duran, Gykores etc as they were seen as risky or too expensive. No blame for Lopeteflgui insisting we got Rodruiguez and Soler to fix the slow, statuesque midfield. No blame to Lopetegui, because he was Sullivan’s choice, for being reluctant to use Summerville ( ditto many cases before with Moyes not fancying players bought “for him”).

Nothing has changed at Sullivan’s circus. We know the problem at West Ham,  it is a little narcissist wearing a Russian dictators outfit.  Same as it ever was

Agree Alf. There is no coherent transfer policy at the club, its hard to hold anyone to account when the dwarf wades in on all transfers when a better chairman stays out of playing decisions.  My bet is Steidten secured interest from Juran and Sullivan baulked over the extra 5M. Cant really say Fulkrugg IS a failure  just yet when we really haven't seen him playing with 100 fitness (although its not looking like the best transfer ever). We cant go back to Sullivan and Son playing fantasy football with our club and taking punts on the wrong players, based on the advise of his agent 'friend' Salthouse.

[Sir Alf]

I see Sullivan looks like he is throwing Steidten “under the bus” as many predicted. He didnt want a DOF, waited for his first bad xfer ( Fullkrug ) and now blaming the failure to rectify the mess Moyes left on Steidten even though 3 people were sharing the transfer picks which is a farce in the first place. 

No blame to Sullivan for picking the wrong manager against Steidyen’s advice. No blame to Sullivan for vetoing moves for Duran, Gykores etc as they were seen as risky or too expensive. No blame for Lopeteflgui insisting we got Rodruiguez and Soler to fix the slow, statuesque midfield. No blame to Lopetegui, because he was Sullivan’s choice, for being reluctant to use Summerville ( ditto many cases before with Moyes not fancying players bought “for him”).

Nothing has changed at Sullivan’s circus. We know the problem at West Ham,  it is a little narcissist wearing a Russian dictators outfit.  Same as it ever was

[Russ of the BML]

Of the 9 players he brought in, he only plays 3 of them regularly and another 1 or 2 reluctantly. You claim it will take another couple of windows and another 9 additions to play in the way he wants to, but fail to acknowledge that if he'd brought in 9 would-be starters we'd be almost there now. 

I'm sure your argument will be that he had to take players he didn't necessarily want, yet apparently he is so principled that at Wolves that he walked away when promises were broken. Where were his principles when he was interviewing and presenting his formula for success?

This is a manager that wanted to sign both Cresswell and Antonio while at Wolves which suggested to me he wasnt very smart

I was underwhelmed by his appointment and so far  have seen nothing to change my view.

You've already called me arrogant for having a different opinion to you but you apparently can't see the hypocrisy.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment and most of your comments. Just playing devil's advocate, I don't agree with you on Antonio and Cresswell. I know a Wolves fan. He has told me Lope was told a load of BS about the funding they had. He was not given the full picture. He had transfer plans and was then told there was no money and he had to sell to buy. No disrespect to Antonio and Cresswell, but they were part of a new strategy to try and help keep Wolves in the PL. Experienced and low value. They were the type of players that Lope was told he could afford. So he didn't go in there and ask for Cresswell and Antonio, they were part of a new plan B. But Lope jumped ship before the transfers happened.  

[Massive Attack]

Well including games where Summerville has played 4 or 7 minutes seems harsh, anyhow...

So Soler, who you've already shown you have all the time in the world for and who you've generously said just needs time to adapt to our style of play, has played 30 minutes less than Summerville although they've both had the same number of starts. Summerville has a goal and an assist and a 40% shot accuracy whereas Soler has no goals, one assist and a 25% shot accuracy. One (Summerville) needs to do much more and has yet to prove himself whereas the other is already an important cog in the machine. Ok 

Scoring and assisting isn't all Solers game and has actually been deployed in a deeper role at times not as close as Summerville has. He also has the same number of starts with 6 which I think is fair on both.

I never demanded Soler start at the beginning because I appreciated he needed time to bed in with it all being so new to him in England. Whereas Summerville already knows what the pace of the game and intensity is like in the Premier League/English game having played in it for a full season before his Championship season so has less excuse to get up to speed. And Soler has made more of an impact knitting the play building attacks and dictating the tempo whereas Summerville has drifted more out of games. For Soler only to be a goal behind him says more about Summerville as our Forward player than it does about Soler as a Midfielder. And when Solers not in the side we clearly miss his influence on the side, even if it doesn't equate to your goal scoring charts.

And again,  I've already stated numerous times now recently that I'd start Summerville alongside Bowen and Kudus up front and want Soler dictating play behind all 3. Hopefully that happens against Southampton, unless the German can finally find his shooting boots but think they're still back in Germany somewhere...

[onsideman]

Well including games where Summerville has played 4 or 7 minutes seems harsh, anyhow...

So Soler, who you've already shown you have all the time in the world for and who you've generously said just needs time to adapt to our style of play, has played 30 minutes less than Summerville although they've both had the same number of starts. Summerville has a goal and an assist and a 40% shot accuracy whereas Soler has no goals, one assist and a 25% shot accuracy. One (Summerville) needs to do much more and has yet to prove himself whereas the other is already an important cog in the machine. Ok 

[Massive Attack]

I never said Summerville was a regular starter, I specifically said he was a regular playing this season. And it's clear he hasn't done enough when asked to play in 18 games already this season. He has to earn the right to stay in the side and he just hasn't done enough to justify that. I'm not even against Summerville either, nor do I suspect Lopetegui is, it's the lack of consistency and end product that does concern us and he needs to force the issue more now instead of waiting for it to happen. There's a quality player in there but it's up to him to produce it so he becomes undroppable. That hasn't happened yet and he's had 18 appearances to show it by now. 

Fullkrugs been injured for most of the season, so it's pointless arguing whether he'd have started more or not. And when he does, he fucks it up big time like on Saturday. 

Lopetegui clearly prefers Todibo to Mavropanos who he uses only when Todibo isn't fully match fit. He isn't selecting Mavropanos because he genuinely believes he's better than Todibo, no one believes that for a second. And that's before we get on to him being out the side due to rumoured ill discipline off the pitch. 

So despite your suggestion that Todibo allegedly punched Lopetegui and was forced to train with the youths, he has only not selected him due to fitness?

Anyhow, on Summerville, I think it's disingenuous to claim that he's played 18 games when most of those have been for 45 minutes or less and some have been under 10 minutes... but let me ask you, do you think he's been given a fair chance and are you holding him singularly responsible for last season's Championship Player of The Year's career stalling as it has? Genuine question

He's suffered with injuries on and off all season, sometimes playing on with an injury like earlier in the season where he played with his leg heavily strapped up. On top of that there has been alleged issues in the changing room so a combination of reasons why he's not settled in to keeping his place but he is the man he wants to play when fit enough. 

It's not disingenuous, it's a fact that he has played in 18 games, some starts, some off the bench and totally understandable considering he's not done enough to cement his place in the Team. 1 goal and 1 assist after over 800 minutes doesn't deserve to keep his place in the Team. Very few flashes of showing it doesn't cut it. That's on the player, not the manager and like you say, I see it with my own eyes him not performing well enough to stay in the side. That said, I do think eventually he can start a lot more but he needs to earn that right, not given it.

Long term I actually want to see Kudus - Bowen -  Summeville start up front together and said as much recently on another thread. Fullkrug could now scupper that idea if he plays and continues to not peform. Or happily eat plenty of servings of humble pie if Fullkrug suddenly clicks in to gear and not produce the shit in the last match. 

[onsideman]

I never said Summerville was a regular starter, I specifically said he was a regular playing this season. And it's clear he hasn't done enough when asked to play in 18 games already this season. He has to earn the right to stay in the side and he just hasn't done enough to justify that. I'm not even against Summerville either, nor do I suspect Lopetegui is, it's the lack of consistency and end product that does concern us and he needs to force the issue more now instead of waiting for it to happen. There's a quality player in there but it's up to him to produce it so he becomes undroppable. That hasn't happened yet and he's had 18 appearances to show it by now. 

Fullkrugs been injured for most of the season, so it's pointless arguing whether he'd have started more or not. And when he does, he fucks it up big time like on Saturday. 

Lopetegui clearly prefers Todibo to Mavropanos who he uses only when Todibo isn't fully match fit. He isn't selecting Mavropanos because he genuinely believes he's better than Todibo, no one believes that for a second. And that's before we get on to him being out the side due to rumoured ill discipline off the pitch. 

So despite your suggestion that Todibo allegedly punched Lopetegui and was forced to train with the youths, he has only not selected him due to fitness?

Anyhow, on Summerville, I think it's disingenuous to claim that he's played 18 games when most of those have been for 45 minutes or less and some have been under 10 minutes... but let me ask you, do you think he's been given a fair chance and are you holding him singularly responsible for last season's Championship Player of The Year's career stalling as it has? Genuine question

[Massive Attack]

I never said Summerville was a regular starter, I specifically said he was a regular playing this season. And it's clear he hasn't done enough when asked to play in 18 games already this season. He has to earn the right to stay in the side and he just hasn't done enough to justify that. I'm not even against Summerville either, nor do I suspect Lopetegui is, it's the lack of consistency and end product that does concern us and he needs to force the issue more now instead of waiting for it to happen. There's a quality player in there but it's up to him to produce it so he becomes undroppable. That hasn't happened yet and he's had 18 appearances to show it by now. 

Fullkrugs been injured for most of the season, so it's pointless arguing whether he'd have started more or not. And when he does, he fucks it up big time like on Saturday. 

Lopetegui clearly prefers Todibo to Mavropanos who he uses only when Todibo isn't fully match fit. He isn't selecting Mavropanos because he genuinely believes he's better than Todibo, no one believes that for a second. And that's before we get on to him being out the side due to rumoured ill discipline off the pitch. 

[onsideman]

I wouldn't call Todibo and Summerville regulars either.

In the squad, but not in the starting line up.

"When fit" in both Todibo and Fullkrugs case.

In Summervilles case after 18 appearances playing regularly all season now scoring just once and assisting only once, is it any wonder he hasn't started more often...

Mavropanos has been selected ahead of Todibo even when fit on multiple occasions, and you only have to go back 3 days to find the last time

We don't yet know about Fullkrug but he certainly wasn't a regular before his injury

​​​​​​Summerville is absolutely not a regular starter. Most thought he would get his chance when Kudus was banned but it didn't happen. Right now, if he starts he is the first person to be hooked if things aren't going well and if he comes on it'll generally be because we're chasing the game. As a result I would suggest he is always playing under more pressure to perform than most others which I think impacts some of his decision making. He knows he's not trusted. Like a new opening batsman, he needs to be told he has a number of games to relax into his role at his new club. Lopetegui is regularly goaded for taking him off and bemoaned for not selecting him, so I think it's just you and him that feel the way you say and, to be honest, I don't care what your stats say, I would prefer to trust my own eyes

[Massive Attack]

I wouldn't call Todibo and Summerville regulars either.

In the squad, but not in the starting line up.

"When fit" in both Todibo and Fullkrugs case.

In Summervilles case after 18 appearances playing regularly all season now scoring just once and assisting only once, is it any wonder he hasn't started more often...

[Lee Trundle]

I wouldn't call Todibo and Summerville regulars either.

In the squad, but not in the starting line up.

[Far Cough UKunt]

I reckon Antonio in his current state would be more effective as a striker than Fullkrug is right now.

[Massive Attack]

Kilman
​Wan-Bissaka
Todibo
Soler
Summerville 

5 Summer regulars when fit


Fullkrug - Would be a regular if he remained fit which isn't on the Manager 
Rodriguez - Definitely on the Manager
Foderingham - As you would expect of a 3rd choice Keeper
Guilherme - Clearly for the future, rather than the here and now, although still had minutes already 


So overall he has regularly played 5, 6 if Fullkrug would stay fit with 2 understandably not regualrly playing and just 1 dog turd that is totally on him. Hardly a bad record of integrating a better standard of player with more surgery that's needed to progress further. 1 Summer window was never going to fix the issues we want sorting with regards a better style of Football and results, it may take another 2 windows for that to happen regardless of who's in charge.

And Ive never had an issue with you having a different opinion, only the way you bully others with yours. I actually have agreed with some of the things you've said in the past, but we do generally see it different regarding giving Lopetegui time to address all our problems and the signs of improvement that's happening.

[Sir Alf]

Massive, I tend to agree he hasnt got the players he wants to implement the high line, advanced wing backs he attempted for the first 10 or so games. But part of that is also the profile of player recruited and required for the fastest, most intense league in the world. Lopetegui got it wrong wanting Rodruiguez and Soler in hindsight. Soler will be a good acquisition longer term but is more a replacement for Paqueta. What we needed was a replacement for what we lost when Rice went to conplement Alvarez and Soucek who are slow. We do not have the proverbial “legs” needed in the centre of the park. 

Get this addressed and a fast powerful centre forward and Lopetegui’s tactics might start to be effective. For now, he has, to keep his job and get some points, reverted back closer to the way we played under Moyes imo. The right move imo. Tecognising the failure in recruitment and buying some time to correct it. If Lop can with Steidten or even Sullivans help correct the errors of last summer in the Jan or more likely next summer window, he might just prove me and a few others wrong.  Im making the assumption he knows whats wring mind simply because he’s adjusted tactics. But if he does not address the midfield and forward area he will not survive too long. He needs a loan or two in Jan



 

[onsideman]

Of the 9 players he brought in, he only plays 3 of them regularly and another 1 or 2 reluctantly. You claim it will take another couple of windows and another 9 additions to play in the way he wants to, but fail to acknowledge that if he'd brought in 9 would-be starters we'd be almost there now. 

I'm sure your argument will be that he had to take players he didn't necessarily want, yet apparently he is so principled that at Wolves that he walked away when promises were broken. Where were his principles when he was interviewing and presenting his formula for success?

This is a manager that wanted to sign both Cresswell and Antonio while at Wolves which suggested to me he wasnt very smart

I was underwhelmed by his appointment and so far  have seen nothing to change my view.

You've already called me arrogant for having a different opinion to you but you apparently can't see the hypocrisy.

[Massive Attack]

Scott

He hasn't quite got the players he wants yet to fully implement what he wants from them and I gave a clear example of that yesterday through the lack of pressing from certain players. They're either incapable due to poor fitness, have too much going on in their heads off the pitch, or not professional enough to do as they are told. Because if he had the players to perform, I'm confident the Team would be markedly better than it is now. And even then, there have been visible sporadic signs of quality and the right intent as to what we should be doing. 

We have definitely improved the quality of our passing game, not just collectively which is indicated in the regular possession of the ball, but also individually from the players most notably Soucek who's been part of a lot of successful moves since the Newcastle game. That is a big shift from the past under Moyes when we would predominantly camp in our own half parking 3 buses in front of our goal. 

Other thing I notice I see him trying to encourage and that's asking his Defenders to be positive and travel forward with the ball. Kilman, Todibo, Mavropanos as well as Emerson and Wan-Bissaka now all take turns in carrying the ball forward which is good to see. Far too often we would just send aimlessly punts up the pitch or off it altogether, now that rarely happens. 

When we do try it, we also press a lot more now too. Although some players aren't doing their jobs and it doesn't always happen which goes back to my previous point about weeding out those slackers for player's who will be prepared to graft putting defenders under serious pressure. We weren't doing that before, most of the time standing off them inviting wave after wave of attacks instead. 

Another big difference is we are looking to attack and create as much as possible, regularly creating shooting opportunities since the Newcastle game. That weren't happening as regularly under Moyes, often having 3 or so shots a game even against the likes of Fulham!

There are signs of clear improvement but I'm co minced now we don't have the right Squad to perform it properly. The Squad needs a lot of surgery to get that right and I'm afraid to say it has to take time. Even if we want a change in manager to get that out of them, they'll still need plenty of time to get it out of them once new players come in. 9 new players in the Summer was just the start of the overhaul, not the end of it and it'll probably take another 9 or so player's to get it right for me. Some may even be sitting in our Academy which encourages me when I see Scarles ripping it up in the last 2 matches Lopetegui clearly likes and isn't afraid to play him. Even though so many convinced themselves he'd never play them at all..

Scarles and Casey have both been given appearances as well as being on the Bemch ready to come on.

Orford and Mayers have also been on our Bench as well so that's 4 Academy players in a matchday Squad, so he isn't afraid to play them if the time is right. 

Guilherme who's raw and new to the Country is also another 18yo who's already had game time. So it's a daft myth he doesn't care or want to play youth player's as he clearly does, before we look at his long track record of it elsewhere. 

It isn't fully functioning well right now but there are encouraging signs even if we dont have all the right players yet. Give it time..

[scott_d]

For me the issue is the lack of understanding as to what he's trying to do here.

Most managers have a philosophy and it has to have a bit more substance than "play good football".

It's clear we are trying to train possession and play it out of the back and in some ways there is an argument that this will take some time to adapt or a team who have been told to punt it long for the last 3-4 years.  There are probably other less-obvious changes in the style of play that may go un-noticed to your average footy fan.

But it would be interesting to hear what he's trying to do.  If there is a plan and there is an end goal other than results then it might be useful to know.

For instance, we've not seen any youth players until the last few games, which isn't a bit criticism on it's own, but is he spending time watching the youngsters at the club to spot any potential first-teamers?  Is he spending time with the youth coaches and managers to try and instill his philosophy into the youth teams so they are that little bit more prepared for the step up?  Clearly under Moyes the youth teams were playing better, more attaching football than the first team so it wasn't an easy transition. 

That's just an example, but give us some indication of the impact he's trying to have on the club as people are judging on what we see on the pitch every week in the first team and it's not winning us over.

[Sir Alf]

Agree with Texas.  Sullivan is the problem.  Look at Tony Bloom at Brighton and Bill Foley and co at Bournemouth. They implement a strategy, philiosophy for the way all teams at the club will play, to recruit for now, the future ( develop ) and sell at the right time to fund. Everyone at these clubs are aligned with the strategy and were recruited fir that reason. Both owners do not get involved in recruiting and allow a DOF and teams of analysts to handle that but they give oversight on ensuring the recruitment is aligned to the long term strategy or plan.  Tony Bloom is a maths nerd apparently but is heralded to be a true leader who listens and wants to get his execs views, ideas. Wants to facilitate their success and in so doing the clubs success.

Sullivan is nothing like that. 30-40 years out of date thinking, a dictator or commander who actively overrides everyone by handling recruitment himself via agents as he always has. Steidten is a half hearted attempt to appease Kretinski and Sullivan will now say he failed last summer so he has to step up and handle recruitment again.

We wont spend any Kudus money well. We wont fix the lack of pace, athleticism in midfield and will likely spend it on Sullivans 54th attempt at getting a striker who will be the wrong fit and struggle because we dont have the midfield etc to control games with possession, pressing etc.

We know the problem, David Sullivan

[THUNDERCLINT]

P45 the fucking fraud. He's been a busted flush since Chelsea. That performance was unforgivable and he's never going to rebuild any goodwill because it.

The Tottenham and Arsenal  games were just confirmation the prick is well out of his depth, drowning and not deserving of any goodwill anyway.

Let Potts finish the season.

[Massive Attack]

Let's see what happens between now and the end of the season, then take stock of the situation of how well/badly we are playing. My position hasn't changed on that since the Summer and think it’s pointless getting in a zero hour contract manager fucking about with everything till then. We ain't getting relegated, so let's see what happens in the 2nd half of the season before deciding to keep or ditch.