Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[Massive Attack]

 

I’ve not sidestepped anything. I’ve already explained in his first three seasons he was heavily backed. Unlike his last as the money dried up, and so did the faith in him.

You can argue for an alternate reality all you like. 

But we both know you are because you banged on about how he got the boot after a poor start in his last season and yet after an equally poor start in his 2nd season in charge he actually got a record League points total come the end of it. Maybe the Club were just a bit too hasty the last time and now reap what they sow with successive poor finishes in the League.

He never had an equally poor start in his second season. That is a complete lie. 

Split hairs all you like. 16th after 8 matches, 17th after 7 matches they're both equally poor starts (not that I said identical anyway). 

[Takashi Miike]

thick as two short planks mick, are you saying that the midget cսnt doesn't use him as an agent or advisor? no one knows specifically which person brings in which player, it's for a reason

[Cabbige Savage]

he is larfing at us

[collyrob]

What players did silkman bring in?

[Takashi Miike]

lopetegui is only a small part of the problem. until that midget fucker and his crew of in house agents disappear, this shambles will continue to get worse

[collyrob]

He can take that useless cսnt kilman with him. 

[Snodders' Beard]

Good post. The assessment of the FB's and CB's is exactly what the problem is. 

But add to that also that, for some reason, Lope has complicated the DM position by doing this 'up and down' role that see's the DM move into midfield when we have the ball and then into sweeper role when we are defending. Alvarez was made to look a right muppet by this system twice this season. The CB's don't like it either and so when the DM plays as a sweeper they naturally push wider but then, as you say, our FB's are tucking in, so it leaves you with this scenario:

-----------------------------------DM

----------FB-----CB------------------------------CB------FB

-------------------------CM---------------CM

I mean, Jesus, you don't need to be a bran surgeon to see how easy it is to play through the gaps in that set up! Its suicidal. 

But hey, what do we know? Our coach is paid millions a year to turn out this shit. 

Well spotted. It's a bloody weird system, and probably too much for players to take on coming from the formational rigidity of Moyes. I suspect most players prefer their instructions in the KISS (Keep It Short & Simple) mould, particularly if it requires them to not have to cover as much space. How confusing must this set up be if Alvarez and Guido can't understand it in their native language?!

Wouldn't the simplest thing be having Alvarez/Guido/whoever sit in the middle of the space between the CBs and the CMs, so he forms a tip of a triangle with either line (think of the number 5 on a dice)? That way he's screening in front of the back 2 and will have play coming at him rather than chasing shadows when caught further up the pitch, and can double up with the 2 behind him. And he can be that pivot role when we have the ball.

I reckon KISS frontman Gene Simmons would make an excellent defensive midfielder. Nobody would want to get anywhere near him in case they catch a disease.

He certainly has Sullivan's "Razzle-Dazzle" factor!

[eusebiovic]

 

It's a fair Q, but the answer isn't 'just' about defensive players. It's also about the system we play, how we play it and which defensive midfielders sit in front of that back four.

There are so many variables. high line, low block, all that shit. One or two primarily defensive players in front of the back four etc.

One thing we surely have to do with Lopetegui is get him to ditch that STUPID thing he does with the full-backs, where he still picks games where he tries to tuck the in close to his centre halves - to create a central low block when we're defending our own half. It's fucking insane and just invites possession against you, because your wide attacking opponents always have space and are a passing option.

Lopetegui sort of ditched the mad idea for a few games, but it has crept back in to some of his tactics recently.

He's massively over-thinking how he wants to use his full-backs. Just let them play vertically. We have two good full-backs in AWB and Emerson (even Coufal is still solid). But stop fannying around with them and let them play a system and a style they're used to: they'll be better for it and our defending will improve. That last game, with AWB on the left and Emerson in front of him, was fucking nuts. Again.

The centre halves are a problem. Kilman is a lower half of the Premier League player - at best. And we spunked £40m on him. He reads the game well and has decent positional sense. But he is painfully slow for the modern game, and it leaves him very exposed. Even more so when he's alongside Mav - who I would say is a relegation standard CB because he just makes too many mistakes. Todibo looks very good at times, but he's had injuries and, if the rumours are to be believed, fell out with the manager.

Good post. The assessment of the FB's and CB's is exactly what the problem is. 

But add to that also that, for some reason, Lope has complicated the DM position by doing this 'up and down' role that see's the DM move into midfield when we have the ball and then into sweeper role when we are defending. Alvarez was made to look a right muppet by this system twice this season. The CB's don't like it either and so when the DM plays as a sweeper they naturally push wider but then, as you say, our FB's are tucking in, so it leaves you with this scenario:

-----------------------------------DM

----------FB-----CB------------------------------CB------FB

-------------------------CM---------------CM

I mean, Jesus, you don't need to be a bran surgeon to see how easy it is to play through the gaps in that set up! Its suicidal. 

But hey, what do we know? Our coach is paid millions a year to turn out this shit. 

Well spotted. It's a bloody weird system, and probably too much for players to take on coming from the formational rigidity of Moyes. I suspect most players prefer their instructions in the KISS (Keep It Short & Simple) mould, particularly if it requires them to not have to cover as much space. How confusing must this set up be if Alvarez and Guido can't understand it in their native language?!

Wouldn't the simplest thing be having Alvarez/Guido/whoever sit in the middle of the space between the CBs and the CMs, so he forms a tip of a triangle with either line (think of the number 5 on a dice)? That way he's screening in front of the back 2 and will have play coming at him rather than chasing shadows when caught further up the pitch, and can double up with the 2 behind him. And he can be that pivot role when we have the ball.

I reckon KISS frontman Gene Simmons would make an excellent defensive midfielder. Nobody would want to get anywhere near him in case they catch a disease.

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

And yet you still conveniently side step the 2nd season conundrum to your last season theory when he gets off to a poor start in 16th after 8 matches but still manages to finish the same season with a record League points total ever with 77 for Sevilla.

I'd argue had he still be in charge and they weren't so hasty to sack him, they could have still gone on to have a 4th successful season in a row. Now look at them the moment he's gone. Yet another unlucky coincidence no doubt...

 

I’ve not sidestepped anything. I’ve already explained in his first three seasons he was heavily backed. Unlike his last as the money dried up, and so did the faith in him.

You can argue for an alternate reality all you like. 

But we both know you are because you banged on about how he got the boot after a poor start in his last season and yet after an equally poor start in his 2nd season in charge he actually got a record League points total come the end of it. Maybe the Club were just a bit too hasty the last time and now reap what they sow with successive poor finishes in the League.

He never had an equally poor start in his second season. That is a complete lie. 

[Snodders' Beard]

Out of curiosity, since so many thinks our defen6is so shit.

Who should we have bought?
Or who would fix our problems if we could choose anyone?

 

It's a fair Q, but the answer isn't 'just' about defensive players. It's also about the system we play, how we play it and which defensive midfielders sit in front of that back four.

There are so many variables. high line, low block, all that shit. One or two primarily defensive players in front of the back four etc.

One thing we surely have to do with Lopetegui is get him to ditch that STUPID thing he does with the full-backs, where he still picks games where he tries to tuck the in close to his centre halves - to create a central low block when we're defending our own half. It's fucking insane and just invites possession against you, because your wide attacking opponents always have space and are a passing option.

Lopetegui sort of ditched the mad idea for a few games, but it has crept back in to some of his tactics recently.

He's massively over-thinking how he wants to use his full-backs. Just let them play vertically. We have two good full-backs in AWB and Emerson (even Coufal is still solid). But stop fannying around with them and let them play a system and a style they're used to: they'll be better for it and our defending will improve. That last game, with AWB on the left and Emerson in front of him, was fucking nuts. Again.

The centre halves are a problem. Kilman is a lower half of the Premier League player - at best. And we spunked £40m on him. He reads the game well and has decent positional sense. But he is painfully slow for the modern game, and it leaves him very exposed. Even more so when he's alongside Mav - who I would say is a relegation standard CB because he just makes too many mistakes. Todibo looks very good at times, but he's had injuries and, if the rumours are to be believed, fell out with the manager.

Good post. The assessment of the FB's and CB's is exactly what the problem is. 

But add to that also that, for some reason, Lope has complicated the DM position by doing this 'up and down' role that see's the DM move into midfield when we have the ball and then into sweeper role when we are defending. Alvarez was made to look a right muppet by this system twice this season. The CB's don't like it either and so when the DM plays as a sweeper they naturally push wider but then, as you say, our FB's are tucking in, so it leaves you with this scenario:

-----------------------------------DM

----------FB-----CB------------------------------CB------FB

-------------------------CM---------------CM

I mean, Jesus, you don't need to be a bran surgeon to see how easy it is to play through the gaps in that set up! Its suicidal. 

But hey, what do we know? Our coach is paid millions a year to turn out this shit. 

Well spotted. It's a bloody weird system, and probably too much for players to take on coming from the formational rigidity of Moyes. I suspect most players prefer their instructions in the KISS (Keep It Short & Simple) mould, particularly if it requires them to not have to cover as much space. How confusing must this set up be if Alvarez and Guido can't understand it in their native language?!

Wouldn't the simplest thing be having Alvarez/Guido/whoever sit in the middle of the space between the CBs and the CMs, so he forms a tip of a triangle with either line (think of the number 5 on a dice)? That way he's screening in front of the back 2 and will have play coming at him rather than chasing shadows when caught further up the pitch, and can double up with the 2 behind him. And he can be that pivot role when we have the ball.

[Manuel]

As horrible as it is to watch us play these days praying we don’t get embarrassed,  I now find myself focusing more on how the players do and watch for how players are developing. Bowen, Kudus and Summerville are always a delight. Soler is growing on me as is Soucek. Bassa stands out, and Killman too. Although I wish he was more of a leader. Emerson is a busy little player not the worst. The rest I have little to no interest in watching.

Growing up I always liked to watch Billy Bonds and Alvin Martin and Julian Dicks just as much as I did DiCanio and Payet. We need to build our backbone for our team and find our leader pretty sharpish. I want to see a center half, holding midfielder and center forward come in- in that order for me to get excited about the team again. Lets hope these cunts get it right this fucking January for once.



 

Put the tints away, Nuts. We have been shocking all season but here you are bigging up SEVEN of our players ffs. Reality is summer recruitment was shit and we don't have many great players at all, regardless of who the gaffer is. We are no better than Crystal Palace or Fulham.

Yeah Manuel, You’re right, can’t argue the obvious, although Fulham are a lot better than us right now. 

Tbf, I'm very cynical these days about our players and maybe we would be a lot better with a new manager. I really rate Bowen, that aside I'm still not totally convinced with Kudus and think he lacks a football brain with his final ball, needs to put his head up more. Summerville still looks raw imo, Paqueta is totally finished, if he ever started, Soler and Soucek not good enough at this level, Alvarez way too inconsistent, Emerson and Kilman average PL defenders, AVB is good without being top class. Don't know what Todibo is meant to be. I really don't know where we go from here.

[Nutsin]

As horrible as it is to watch us play these days praying we don’t get embarrassed,  I now find myself focusing more on how the players do and watch for how players are developing. Bowen, Kudus and Summerville are always a delight. Soler is growing on me as is Soucek. Bassa stands out, and Killman too. Although I wish he was more of a leader. Emerson is a busy little player not the worst. The rest I have little to no interest in watching.

Growing up I always liked to watch Billy Bonds and Alvin Martin and Julian Dicks just as much as I did DiCanio and Payet. We need to build our backbone for our team and find our leader pretty sharpish. I want to see a center half, holding midfielder and center forward come in- in that order for me to get excited about the team again. Lets hope these cunts get it right this fucking January for once.


 

Put the tints away, Nuts. We have been shocking all season but here you are bigging up SEVEN of our players ffs. Reality is summer recruitment was shit and we don't have many great players at all, regardless of who the gaffer is. We are no better than Crystal Palace or Fulham.

Yeah Manuel, You’re right, can’t argue the obvious, although Fulham are a lot better than us right now. 

[Manuel]

As horrible as it is to watch us play these days praying we don’t get embarrassed,  I now find myself focusing more on how the players do and watch for how players are developing. Bowen, Kudus and Summerville are always a delight. Soler is growing on me as is Soucek. Bassa stands out, and Killman too. Although I wish he was more of a leader. Emerson is a busy little player not the worst. The rest I have little to no interest in watching.

Growing up I always liked to watch Billy Bonds and Alvin Martin and Julian Dicks just as much as I did DiCanio and Payet. We need to build our backbone for our team and find our leader pretty sharpish. I want to see a center half, holding midfielder and center forward come in- in that order for me to get excited about the team again. Lets hope these cunts get it right this fucking January for once.

 

Put the tints away, Nuts. We have been shocking all season but here you are bigging up SEVEN of our players ffs. Reality is summer recruitment was shit and we don't have many great players at all, regardless of who the gaffer is. We are no better than Crystal Palace or Fulham.

[Nutsin]

As horrible as it is to watch us play these days praying we don’t get embarrassed,  I now find myself focusing more on how the players do and watch for how players are developing. Bowen, Kudus and Summerville are always a delight. Soler is growing on me as is Soucek. Bassa stands out, and Killman too. Although I wish he was more of a leader. Emerson is a busy little player not the worst. The rest I have little to no interest in watching.

Growing up I always liked to watch Billy Bonds and Alvin Martin and Julian Dicks just as much as I did DiCanio and Payet. We need to build our backbone for our team and find our leader pretty sharpish. I want to see a center half, holding midfielder and center forward come in- in that order for me to get excited about the team again. Lets hope these cunts get it right this fucking January for once.
 

[Massive Attack]

Never suggested it wasn’t true. I’m pointing out the context in which he did it and the consequences they have suffered since. 

And yet you still conveniently side step the 2nd season conundrum to your last season theory when he gets off to a poor start in 16th after 8 matches but still manages to finish the same season with a record League points total ever with 77 for Sevilla.

I'd argue had he still be in charge and they weren't so hasty to sack him, they could have still gone on to have a 4th successful season in a row. Now look at them the moment he's gone. Yet another unlucky coincidence no doubt...

 

I’ve not sidestepped anything. I’ve already explained in his first three seasons he was heavily backed. Unlike his last as the money dried up, and so did the faith in him.

You can argue for an alternate reality all you like. 

But we both know you are because you banged on about how he got the boot after a poor start in his last season and yet after an equally poor start in his 2nd season in charge he actually got a record League points total come the end of it. Maybe the Club were just a bit too hasty the last time and now reap what they sow with successive poor finishes in the League.

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

What facts weren't true about achieving record La Liga points total ever for Sevilla, or 3 consecutive Champions League qualifications via the League with 1 season starting poorly in 16th, or the Title challenge in his last full season, under only Lopetegui's 3 full seasons in charge? 

Never suggested it wasn’t true. I’m pointing out the context in which he did it and the consequences they have suffered since. 

And yet you still conveniently side step the 2nd season conundrum to your last season theory when he gets off to a poor start in 16th after 8 matches but still manages to finish the same season with a record League points total ever with 77 for Sevilla.

I'd argue had he still be in charge and they weren't so hasty to sack him, they could have still gone on to have a 4th successful season in a row. Now look at them the moment he's gone. Yet another unlucky coincidence no doubt...

 

 

I’ve not sidestepped anything. I’ve already explained in his first three seasons he was heavily backed. Unlike his last as the money dried up, and so did the faith in him.

You can argue for an alternate reality all you like. 

[Massive Attack]

I’m pointing out facts. You’re the one spinning mental gymnastics and waving pom poms.

I predicted exactly what he’d be like if we got him and he has been exactly that.

What facts weren't true about achieving record La Liga points total ever for Sevilla, or 3 consecutive Champions League qualifications via the League with 1 season starting poorly in 16th, or the Title challenge in his last full season, under only Lopetegui's 3 full seasons in charge? 

Never suggested it wasn’t true. I’m pointing out the context in which he did it and the consequences they have suffered since. 

And yet you still conveniently side step the 2nd season conundrum to your last season theory when he gets off to a poor start in 16th after 8 matches but still manages to finish the same season with a record League points total ever with 77 for Sevilla.

I'd argue had he still be in charge and they weren't so hasty to sack him, they could have still gone on to have a 4th successful season in a row. Now look at them the moment he's gone. Yet another unlucky coincidence no doubt...

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

Explain the 2nd season terrible start Jaan, I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics of spinning that one..

And who's to say he wouldn't have then go on to have a decent final season in charge had he been allowed to finish it, much like his poor start to his successful 2nd season proved.

I’m pointing out facts. You’re the one spinning mental gymnastics and waving pom poms.

I predicted exactly what he’d be like if we got him and he has been exactly that.

What facts weren't true about achieving record La Liga points total ever for Sevilla, or 3 consecutive Champions League qualifications via the League with 1 season starting poorly in 16th, or the Title challenge in his last full season, under only Lopetegui's 3 full seasons in charge? 

Never suggested it wasn’t true. I’m pointing out the context in which he did it and the consequences they have suffered since. 

[Gank]

Did people on here really think anyone (ANYONE) would have been able to inherit Moyes’ squad, successfully overhaul it in one window and at the same time successfully completely change the way we play to improve both possession and attacking stats?

He wasn’t my choice but one transfer window in, I’d say he’s done alright moving some dead wood out, adding some better players and there’s no doubt the stats we hated under Moyes have changed for the better even if the results are about the same.

Its underwhelming compared to what Slot has done but it’s already better than how Moyes finished and he’s only just started on the rebuild.

[Massive Attack]

Explain the 2nd season terrible start Jaan, I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics of spinning that one..

And who's to say he wouldn't have then go on to have a decent final season in charge had he been allowed to finish it, much like his poor start to his successful 2nd season proved.

I’m pointing out facts. You’re the one spinning mental gymnastics and waving pom poms.

I predicted exactly what he’d be like if we got him and he has been exactly that.

What facts weren't true about achieving record La Liga points total ever for Sevilla, or 3 consecutive Champions League qualifications via the League with 1 season starting poorly in 16th, or the Title challenge in his last full season, under only Lopetegui's 3 full seasons in charge? 

[Massive Attack]

How does what he did at Savill improve his tenture with us, Massive Attack?

 

 

 

 

It doesn't directly. However it did prove that when given reasonable enough time and proper backing he can bring relative success to a Club. Not just Kilman and a couple of freebie/Loan signings as his only new signings, whilst the Board chuck a number of other players at him to coach as well in a haphazard way.

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

Explain the 2nd season terrible start Jaan, I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics of spinning that one..

And who's to say he wouldn't have then go on to have a decent final season in charge had he been allowed to finish it, much like his poor start to his successful 2nd season proved.

I’m pointing out facts. You’re the one spinning mental gymnastics and waving pom poms.

I predicted exactly what he’d be like if we got him and he has been exactly that.

[Lee Trundle]

How does what he did at Savill improve his tenture with us, Massive Attack?

[Massive Attack]

Explain the 2nd season terrible start Jaan, I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics of spinning that one..

And who's to say he wouldn't have then go on to have a decent final season in charge had he been allowed to finish it, much like his poor start to his successful 2nd season proved.

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

The Fella gets them 3 lots of Champions League revenue in a row in every single full season in charge and a European Cup win, yet because of his mismanagement they are somehow in financial trouble now because of him, nothing to do with the Clubs Owners? I bet there's a Spanish David Sullivan running about in Seville loving your gaslighting spin on how Lopetegui reign was actually something of a disaster for the Club the way you are trying to blame him for their current position. 

By the way, in his 2nd season in charge of Sevilla they got off to a poor start and were lying in 16th position in the League after 8 matches, just 1 position better off than the season they sacked him in 17th. He went on to finish that season in 4th qualifying for the Champions League when given the full season. 

 

 

Sevilla turned a profit in the transfer market for 6 seasons before he arrived.

Lopetegui’s reign saw a high net spend for 3 seasons, which had came to an end the summer of the season he managed their worst ever start and got sacked. 

No other manager in their history had the money he had. Not even close.