Graham Potter

[stubbo]

https://www.whufc.com/news/graham-potte ... head-coach

​​​​​​In the past he's favoured a 3-4-3 formation...hard to see how we can do that currently with only 3 senior CBs, one of whom is injured. He's also played wingers (Solly March as an example) in the wing back roles.

Typically when a 3-4-3 gets announced on a match day the manager is immediately described as being too negative, too cautious etc. I guess it depends on the composition of the 4.

He's given young players chances...hopefully that continues at West Ham.

Welcome Graham.

 

[Lee Trundle]

I think I do get it.

It's just I don't think it's a good thing to bring up as it paints Sullivan in a good light.  The only 2 positives from the transfer window were AWB and Summerville.  Sullivan's picks. 

I think my issue is more with TIM as I still waiting for him to be as good as everyone tells me he is.  Fullkrug was a disaster of a signing.  I don't care if he fitted with Lopetegui's style (whatever that was).

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

He played well under Lopetegui.  Probably the only player that did.

And all these other players that were bought to play his system weren't as good.

Again, you're missing the point. You don't seem to get that it's a team game. However well an individual might play doesn't matter much if he doesn't fulfil the role required of him for the team to actually win games.

In any case, the problem with having a manager who is limited in his approach means that if one or two pieces of the jigsaw are missing then it all falls apart. Seeing as Lopetegui needed a striker like Fullkrug but didn't have one who was fit then it became a moot point whether the full backs could provide crosses for him anyway.

[honky cat]

Just watched the palace presser. I had given up on these for the past few years. Thoughtful and articulate, very impressive. 

[Lee Trundle]

... oh and Summerville was the other bright spot.

But he was another player who was bought for the wrong system as well.

[Lee Trundle]

He played well under Lopetegui.  Probably the only player that did.

And all these other players that were bought to play his system weren't as good.

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

I've never ever mentioned KWP (whoever the fuck that is)
​​​​

I think Trundle is referring to stubbo's earlier post.

He's probably right that AWB is a better right back than Kyle Walker Peters. He's completely missing the point though, which is that you don't just buy the best player in that position, you buy the best player who fits the tactics you want to employ. AWB didn't. He's a better fit for Potter but that's luck, not judgement.

[Takashi Miike]

I've never ever mentioned KWP (whoever the fuck that is)


​​​​

[Lee Trundle]

AWB is miles better than KWP.

Well done Salthouse for bending Sullivan's ear over that.

[Takashi Miike]

Guilherme still so young. As others say, maybe too early to be reaching conclusions although he has yet to show any glimpse of that “special something” that most very good players show early on ( unless hitting a post against Liverpool was it counts ?). But beimg ancient, I can remember Paul Ince ( yeah I know traitor and all that ) coming on at 18 in a Zenith Data Systems tie against Chelsea. It was obvious he was the real deal within 20-30 mins. His control, movement, passing etc. then hits a volley from 30 yards against the bar. 

But the more important thing here is even if this Brazilian kid does not wirk out as hoped, you dont abandon the approach and the idea of a DOF after one window as Sullivan seems to have?  And you commit to 100% and take a long term view. We half arsed it as is Sullivan’s way by having different people pick players past summer. No you let the data analysis, background checks and player profiling drive who is brought in. Some players for now which is what we’ve always gone for anyway but as time goes on more players for the future. Blended with our home grpwn youth development in an identifyable style all West Ham teams play. And as mentioned, we plan to sell some if them for good profit to fund further investments.  But it all hinges on leadership from the top, a vision, a strategy and long term thinking / planning. Everyone at the club aligned with the strategy or plan. 

But no, we have Sullivan and suffer on the “alter of his ego” and fragile, small man psychology. The bloke is psychologically disordered, addicted to power and desperate for adoration and apreciation.  

So we will have to hope Potter can navigate around Sullivan’s influence and bring the progress we crave in spite or our little pretentious, Russian dictator 


 

Alf, a couple of games back Salthouse was sitting next to him. They love being in control, no DOF could ever do his job in that set up

[Sir Alf]

Guilherme still so young. As others say, maybe too early to be reaching conclusions although he has yet to show any glimpse of that “special something” that most very good players show early on ( unless hitting a post against Liverpool was it counts ?). But beimg ancient, I can remember Paul Ince ( yeah I know traitor and all that ) coming on at 18 in a Zenith Data Systems tie against Chelsea. It was obvious he was the real deal within 20-30 mins. His control, movement, passing etc. then hits a volley from 30 yards against the bar. 

But the more important thing here is even if this Brazilian kid does not wirk out as hoped, you dont abandon the approach and the idea of a DOF after one window as Sullivan seems to have?  And you commit to 100% and take a long term view. We half arsed it as is Sullivan’s way by having different people pick players past summer. No you let the data analysis, background checks and player profiling drive who is brought in. Some players for now which is what we’ve always gone for anyway but as time goes on more players for the future. Blended with our home grpwn youth development in an identifyable style all West Ham teams play. And as mentioned, we plan to sell some if them for good profit to fund further investments.  But it all hinges on leadership from the top, a vision, a strategy and long term thinking / planning. Everyone at the club aligned with the strategy or plan. 

But no, we have Sullivan and suffer on the “alter of his ego” and fragile, small man psychology. The bloke is psychologically disordered, addicted to power and desperate for adoration and apreciation.  

So we will have to hope Potter can navigate around Sullivan’s influence and bring the progress we crave in spite or our little pretentious, Russian dictator 

 

[stubbo]

Nah, that's just made up, trying too hard bollocks. If he had impressed in training or done better when he has been on the pitch we would have seen him more. 

 

You say that but then why wasn’t Scarles played earlier instead of putting AWB at left back to cover for Emerson? You think Scarles was only decent in training a few weeks ago and forced himself in the team? 

Guilherme could be doing well but we have 2 senior players ahead of him who are rated as some of the best players in the league (Kudus, Bowen). So what manager under the kosh is going to play LG ahead of them? LG progression needs a plan. They already had Bowen and kudus so what was the plan to develop this guy for 1st team football? 

There is no way he’s a shit player. 

You'd imagine that they were thinking one of Kudus or Bowen would move on in a year or two's time and then he'd step into that role. That thing called succession planning that anyone forward thinking is able to do. Brighton again being the prime example- their players get sold and someone else is ready to step right into the role in the team. The opposite of having your one striker or fullback get injured and have zero players in the squad on standby to step into the team fairly seamlessly.

Precisely.  Steidten has witnessed a model previously that relies on you selling one 'star' per season to bankroll further development.  The target there was likely Kudus this Summer (85m release clause).

Getting Guilherme in was in all liklihood succession planning....we still have Bowen, Summerville...then Guilherme to be the 'first off the bench' next season post-Kudus.

Say what you like about his signings, but he had a plan.  Even Fullkrug....he signed him for a manager that wants a forward who wants someone good in the air, good in the box, strong, and able to hold up play and bring others into it.  Arguably Fullkrug fits that profile much better than Duran.  So good or bad, you can see some logic.

Same with him chasing KWP (who was ideal for Lopetegui) before Salthouse started whispering to Sullivan
about AWB.

[El Scorchio]

I think Guilherme's development has played second fiddle to the last managers desire to stay in his job!






 

Nah, that's just made up, trying too hard bollocks. If he had impressed in training or done better when he has been on the pitch we would have seen him more. 

 

You say that but then why wasn’t Scarles played earlier instead of putting AWB at left back to cover for Emerson? You think Scarles was only decent in training a few weeks ago and forced himself in the team? 

Guilherme could be doing well but we have 2 senior players ahead of him who are rated as some of the best players in the league (Kudus, Bowen). So what manager under the kosh is going to play LG ahead of them? LG progression needs a plan. They already had Bowen and kudus so what was the plan to develop this guy for 1st team football? 

There is no way he’s a shit player. 

You'd imagine that they were thinking one of Kudus or Bowen would move on in a year or two's time and then he'd step into that role. That thing called succession planning that anyone forward thinking is able to do. Brighton again being the prime example- their players get sold and someone else is ready to step right into the role in the team. The opposite of having your one striker or fullback get injured and have zero players in the squad on standby to step into the team fairly seamlessly.

[El Scorchio]

people complain that we don’t find the McAlisters, the Caicedo’s etc. this is what you have to do to get them.  You have to take risks with talent. 

 

 

Excellent summary of the whole situation. And they don;t always work out. Even if LG doesn't, it doesn't mean it's the wrong route to go down. Clearly with over 100 million in profit for Brighton after moving those two on, it can work superbly. Truth is that any profit you turn on players like this, even if its 5-10 mill, it's a successful move. Like flipping a house. If they perform well for you in the meantime as well, then everyone wins.

What will we be doing instead? Letting Ings and some other similar players go on a freebie (or a huge loss with whatever we can recoup) after flushing millons and millions of pounds down the toilet on transfer and years of six figure weekly wages.

[threesixty]

I think Guilherme's development has played second fiddle to the last managers desire to stay in his job!





 

Nah, that's just made up, trying too hard bollocks. If he had impressed in training or done better when he has been on the pitch we would have seen him more. 

 

 

You say that but then why wasn’t Scarles played earlier instead of putting AWB at left back to cover for Emerson? You think Scarles was only decent in training a few weeks ago and forced himself in the team? 

Guilherme could be doing well but we have 2 senior players ahead of him who are rated as some of the best players in the league (Kudus, Bowen). So what manager under the kosh is going to play LG ahead of them? LG progression needs a plan. They already had Bowen and kudus so what was the plan to develop this guy for 1st team football? 

There is no way he’s a shit player. 

[threesixty]

Unless your money laundering or something you’re not paying 20m for someone if no other serious buyer is not putting in similar bids. If that’s the case then his valuation is reasonable not based on what he can do today but his value over the next 12-15 yrs of his career. 

They think he’s a potential 50m+ player if developed. Whether he gets goals or not at 16/17 yr old in a professional league is meaningless. It’s his potential that drives up his fee. The problem Is that in training he has not been developed enough to get him in the 1st team. Seeing how Loppy was it’s not surprising.He could have gone on loan but for some unknown reason Loppy didn’t bother. I think Loppy thought he’d cruise through the 1st part of the season and make it easier to bed Guilherme in. But he went into panic mode pretty early. 

people complain that we don’t find the McAlisters, the Caicedo’s etc. this is what you have to do to get them.  You have to take risks with talent. 

[El Scorchio]

For context, Caicedo was a year or two older than LG is when Brighton bought him- for 28 million- and was shipped out for a year on loan before getting any real game time. Maybe LG should have gone on loan, but that's neither here nor there really- the point is that the player sold in the summer for 115 million didn't make any impact for a whole year after signing as an older player. I wonder if a load of their fans were pissing their pants at how he'd never amount to anything.

 

While I agree with the sentiment, it should probably be noted that Brighton didn't pay £28m upfront for Caicedo. His previous club received that amount due to the 20% sell on clause. Money down was only £4-5m. Obviously we don't know if the Guilherme deal is piled with add ons but it's the reputed £20m price tag which is making some people think he's a massive flop already. If we all thought he cost less than £5m upfront then no-one would really give a shit that he's not pulled up any trees yet.

The price we paid for LG will likely fluctuate wildly depending on who you ask and what point they are trying to prove. I'd be surprised if it's as low as the 5 mill some are saying or as high as the 19 mill others are saying. Either way time will tell if he ever amounts to anything either for us or someone else. Time will tell being the key phrase here. It's simply far too soon to judge the boy. Sullivan rushing him out the door and trumpeting it to his media proxy to prove some point and try and make the bloke who signed him look bad is fucking pathetic either way. What sort of boss or leader deliberately throws their employees or team under the bus? A fucking awful awful nasty spiteful petty one. That's who.

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

For context, Caicedo was a year or two older than LG is when Brighton bought him- for 28 million- and was shipped out for a year on loan before getting any real game time. Maybe LG should have gone on loan, but that's neither here nor there really- the point is that the player sold in the summer for 115 million didn't make any impact for a whole year after signing as an older player. I wonder if a load of their fans were pissing their pants at how he'd never amount to anything.

 

 

While I agree with the sentiment, it should probably be noted that Brighton didn't pay £28m upfront for Caicedo. His previous club received that amount due to the 20% sell on clause. Money down was only £4-5m. Obviously we don't know if the Guilherme deal is piled with add ons but it's the reputed £20m price tag which is making some people think he's a massive flop already. If we all thought he cost less than £5m upfront then no-one would really give a shit that he's not pulled up any trees yet.

[Massive Attack]

Which is why it was daft to set aside upwards of £25.5M (£19M before add-ons - The Times) if the chances of him making it are remote. Especially when we needed ready to go Forwards/Strikers and could have put that money towards other such targets. It was a costly vanity signing not by Sullivan for once, but by Steidten if he wasn't going to hit the ground running. That's not to say in time he may come good, it's just we aint the kind of Club who can wait that long for that amount of money. More of a Real Madrid type deal. 

The other part to it was we are stacked in wide/attacking areas as well, giving him even less chance to get enough game time to prove himself. 

If a Club can come close to matching what we laid out for him, then I say move him on and redirect the funds elsewhere where it's really needed. 

[Russ of the BML]

Could debate the point all fucking day, but the reality is just based on the law of averages the chances of him one day becoming a top PL footballer are massively stacked against him.

Indeed. As is the case for most players. 

[Manuel]

Could debate the point all fucking day, but the reality is just based on the law of averages the chances of him one day becoming a top PL footballer are massively stacked against him.

[El Scorchio]

For context, Caicedo was a year or two older than LG is when Brighton bought him- for 28 million- and was shipped out for a year on loan before getting any real game time. Maybe LG should have gone on loan, but that's neither here nor there really- the point is that the player sold in the summer for 115 million didn't make any impact for a whole year after signing as an older player. I wonder if a load of their fans were pissing their pants at how he'd never amount to anything.

[John Coffey]

Scarles made his first team debut at 16 as an exceptional youngster and performed well. You'd have to ask two successive managers why he was then left out in the cold for 2 years but I wouldn't use him as a comparison

Guilherme wouldn't be at school in any relevant alternative universe. He's been coached professionally since the age of 11

My expectations were lowered pretty quickly when, after being excited at his impending arrival, Tim Vickery made it very clear that having played 30 times for Palmerias with no goals, he  was not only one for the future but he wondered whether that future could ever be here

 Correct. Vickery stated that Guilherme was in no way ready for the Premier League and it would be at least 2 years before he might be. 

[Ron Eff]

Writing Guilherme off at 18 years old is all a bit unnecessary. It’s only the transfer fee (of which we don’t know the ins and outs of) that make people think he should be playing every week. No chance Lopetegui in his plight was going to play an untried, new to the country, 18 year old. 

I think he’s looked competent in his few minutes on the pitch. Think it was Ipswich and Liverpool where I’ve seen some promise. 

He should start to come on in games where we are relatively comfortable. Perhaps he would have on Tuesday if we didn’t let them back in it twice. 

[onsideman]

Scarles made his first team debut at 16 as an exceptional youngster and performed well. You'd have to ask two successive managers why he was then left out in the cold for 2 years but I wouldn't use him as a comparison

Guilherme wouldn't be at school in any relevant alternative universe. He's been coached professionally since the age of 11

My expectations were lowered pretty quickly when, after being excited at his impending arrival, Tim Vickery made it very clear that having played 30 times for Palmerias with no goals, he  was not only one for the future but he wondered whether that future could ever be here

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

Goddard fella - Maybe I, in your words, have written him off, based on no progress since he came in, and more so the law of averages will show that a kid coming over from South America to the PL just ain't going to be good or strong enough. He might be an exception, despite his slow start, and I might be wrong, but I doubt it. Why don't YOU put up a case as to why you think he might make it, rather than try to mock those with a real opinion. Or more likely, you're just one of these with a 'let's see what happens' 'opinion'. Forums would be pretty fucking boring if they were all full of limp wristed cowards like you. 

Blimey. Strong words there, Manuel son. I'll see if I can try and muster up the courage to become a whingeing minge, because apparently being mindlessly negative is the only opinion that's "real".