Villa vs West Ham | PL | 25.1.24 | Predictions and Match Thread

[stubbo-admin]

Match Centre:

Odds:
West Ham: 11/2
Draw: 7/2
Aston Villa: 4/7

Pre-Match Press Conference:
Official Press Conference

Tactical Preview: 
Babbling Irons

Watch-along:
Hammers Chat Watchalong

Streams:

SportHD 

(With all live streams be mindful they can carry viruses etc.  Don't click on any ads and use a VPN).
  

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

" The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing."

That post is out right dishonest. You've quoted the entire mini-thread but carefully edited  out my last sentence.. This one.

'In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.'

When you resort to outright and easily seen-through dishonesty to try to make your argument, you really have lost any sort of credibility.

So you've made a statement then next line said you might be completely wrong about it?  All over the place, lets just revisit if those 4 are still here come September. 

No. I haven't done that. Either you have reading difficulties or you are being disingenuous - again. And your final sentence is again completely dishonest. I've already posted that it's extremely unlikely that those 4 will all be here next season.

Are you determined to make yourself look foolish?

[Rossal]

Why would you make that up? I carefully said nothing of the sort

" The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing."

That post is out right dishonest. You've quoted the entire mini-thread but carefully edited  out my last sentence.. This one.

'In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.'

When you resort to outright and easily seen-through dishonesty to try to make your argument, you really have lost any sort of credibility.

So you've made a statement then next line said you might be completely wrong about it?  All over the place, lets just revisit if those 4 are still here come September. 

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Fair enough then if you would like them around next season, I would rather replace or bring the yoooof through 

Why would you make that up? I carefully said nothing of the sort

" The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing."

That post is out right dishonest. You've quoted the entire mini-thread but carefully edited  out my last sentence.. This one.

'In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.'

When you resort to outright and easily seen-through dishonesty to try to make your argument, you really have lost any sort of credibility.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but it reads like your making cases to keep them, especially Cresswell.

Yes. You're reading it wrong. As anyone who reads the post will be able to see.

[Rossal]

Despite the very encouraging performance yesterday, the squad will need a lot of work in summer.

Fab and/or Areola need replacing, Cresswell, Coufal, Ings,  Antonio are too old, slow or both so I expect most of them to move on. Antonio might get another year if he can play at the highest level again?

Irvine is not quite Premiership quality it would seem based on the reluctance of 2 managers to give him many minutes. So he’s another to be moved on.

Rodriguez not quick enough. Soler I’m personally not sure on. Jury out on him. 

Harsh to say, Soucek may also have to go if he wants to start most weeks. He is a valuable member of the squad but if we want to play Potterball he isn’t the best fit. I’d like him to stay but not as a starter every week.  O

So that’s as many as 7 players assuming a couple listed are retained.  

Scarles, Aguerd ( if he’s amenable to having another crack at  playing in the Prem), Potts to come back. Earthy and Marshall another years loan imo. Orford and Casey to be loaned out.

2 athletic, central midfielders, a quick/ strong striker, another CB and keeper needed and with the right profile of player to fit Potter’s 3-box-3 preferred system of high possession and pressing. 5 players to get in. At least 120 million if we want them to be ready now to play in the Premiership. 

I'd like to see a fully confident Irving and see what he can do. He likes a shot, has a lovely left foot and can bring balance to our midfield. Have enjoyed some of his cameos but he looks scared to do anything wrong with it. Always taking the easy pass etc...... would like to see Potter build him up between now and the end of season see if theres a player there worth keeping. 

[southbankbornnbred]

Despite the very encouraging performance yesterday, the squad will need a lot of work in summer.

Fab and/or Areola need replacing, Cresswell, Coufal, Ings,  Antonio are too old, slow or both so I expect most of them to move on. Antonio might get another year if he can play at the highest level again?

Irvine is not quite Premiership quality it would seem based on the reluctance of 2 managers to give him many minutes. So he’s another to be moved on.

Rodriguez not quick enough. Soler I’m personally not sure on. Jury out on him. 

Harsh to say, Soucek may also have to go if he wants to start most weeks. He is a valuable member of the squad but if we want to play Potterball he isn’t the best fit. I’d like him to stay but not as a starter every week.  O

So that’s as many as 7 players assuming a couple listed are retained.  

Scarles, Aguerd ( if he’s amenable to having another crack at  playing in the Prem), Potts to come back. Earthy and Marshall another years loan imo. Orford and Casey to be loaned out.

2 athletic, central midfielders, a quick/ strong striker, another CB and keeper needed and with the right profile of player to fit Potter’s 3-box-3 preferred system of high possession and pressing. 5 players to get in. At least 120 million if we want them to be ready now to play in the Premiership. 

In broad terms, I agree with most of that analysis, Alfs.  Good stuff.

Although, ironically, Soucek seems to be thriving under Potter. Maybe it’s all relative (to Rodriguez etc), but he’s doing a lot of the hard yards we need in CM, and much of the press. He’s a strange lad, Soucek. Every time we write him off, he comes back with something. Usually an even bigger work ethic.

Earthy strikes me as a Potterball player, btw. Guessing, of course, but suspect Graham will like his movement and first touch. He needs more games, though.

[Sir Alf]

Despite the very encouraging performance yesterday, the squad will need a lot of work in summer.

Fab and/or Areola need replacing, Cresswell, Coufal, Ings,  Antonio are too old, slow or both so I expect most of them to move on. Antonio might get another year if he can play at the highest level again?

Irvine is not quite Premiership quality it would seem based on the reluctance of 2 managers to give him many minutes. So he’s another to be moved on.

Rodriguez not quick enough. Soler I’m personally not sure on. Jury out on him. 

Harsh to say, Soucek may also have to go if he wants to start most weeks. He is a valuable member of the squad but if we want to play Potterball he isn’t the best fit. I’d like him to stay but not as a starter every week.  O

So that’s as many as 7 players assuming a couple listed are retained.  

Scarles, Aguerd ( if he’s amenable to having another crack at  playing in the Prem), Potts to come back. Earthy and Marshall another years loan imo. Orford and Casey to be loaned out.

2 athletic, central midfielders, a quick/ strong striker, another CB and keeper needed and with the right profile of player to fit Potter’s 3-box-3 preferred system of high possession and pressing. 5 players to get in. At least 120 million if we want them to be ready now to play in the Premiership. 

[Lee Trundle]

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but it reads like your making cases to keep them, especially Cresswell.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

We're playing close to a quarter of a million pounds every week to 3 of those players who won't get anywhere near the team.

That's why they need replacing.

They got near the team yesterday...

And the average salary for a PL player is £60k. Ings, by far the biggest earner of the three on £125k p/w and the only one that's outrageouly overpaid (I assume you're excluding Soucek for your three) will certainly get moved on if it's at all possible, Cresswell, on £50k p/w, is probably covering 3rd choice LB, 4th choice CB and some sort of senior pro/dressing room good influence role and almost certainly won't get a new contract and Coufal may or may not go, but isn't really overpaid. In fact at £35k per week he is probably cheap.

You're likely get your hopes rewarded, as I'm sure Sullivan thinks the same way.

 

 

What hopes? You mean that Ings, Cresswell and probably Coufal will be gone? I don't think I mentioned any other hopes did I? 

[Rossal]

 

Yes, Coufal did get rinsed for the first. That's what happens when you have people playing out of position because of injuries. However, after the first 10 minutes, he did a pretty good job. The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing.

In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.

Fair enough then if you would like them around next season, I would rather replace or bring the yoooof through 

Why would you make that up? I carefully said nothing of the sort

" The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing."

[Lee Trundle]

We're playing close to a quarter of a million pounds every week to 3 of those players who won't get anywhere near the team.

That's why they need replacing.

They got near the team yesterday...

And the average salary for a PL player is £60k. Ings, by far the biggest earner of the three on £125k p/w and the only one that's outrageouly overpaid (I assume you're excluding Soucek for your three) will certainly get moved on if it's at all possible, Cresswell, on £50k p/w, is probably covering 3rd choice LB, 4th choice CB and some sort of senior pro/dressing room good influence role and almost certainly won't get a new contract and Coufal may or may not go, but isn't really overpaid. In fact at £35k per week he is probably cheap.

You're likely get your hopes rewarded, as I'm sure Sullivan thinks the same way.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

 

Coufal got absolutely rinsed for the opener. Those players highlight just how bad the state of the squad is that Moyes and Jlop have left behind. Potter may be able to coach some players into a bit of form. But theres plenty that need to be moved on asap. 

 

Yes, Coufal did get rinsed for the first. That's what happens when you have people playing out of position because of injuries. However, after the first 10 minutes, he did a pretty good job. The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing.

In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.

Fair enough then if you would like them around next season, I would rather replace or bring the yoooof through 

Why would you make that up? I carefully said nothing of the sort

[Rossal]

Only Soucek is a regular starter - and him not every match. Coufal and especially Cresswell came in and did a good job. Ings didn't even start with all our other forwards out. He did a decent job, too.

I'm not really sure what happened yesterday to provoke your post. If anything a valid conclusion would be that under a new coach our bench is a bit better than we thought it was.

 

Coufal got absolutely rinsed for the opener. Those players highlight just how bad the state of the squad is that Moyes and Jlop have left behind. Potter may be able to coach some players into a bit of form. But theres plenty that need to be moved on asap. 

 

Yes, Coufal did get rinsed for the first. That's what happens when you have people playing out of position because of injuries. However, after the first 10 minutes, he did a pretty good job. The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing.

In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.

Fair enough then if you would like them around next season, I would rather replace or bring the yoooof through 

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

We're playing close to a quarter of a million pounds every week to 3 of those players who won't get anywhere near the team.

That's why they need replacing.

They got near the team yesterday...

And the average salary for a PL player is £60k. Ings, by far the biggest earner of the three on £125k p/w and the only one that's outrageouly overpaid (I assume you're excluding Soucek for your three) will certainly get moved on if it's at all possible, Cresswell, on £50k p/w, is probably covering 3rd choice LB, 4th choice CB and some sort of senior pro/dressing room good influence role and almost certainly won't get a new contract and Coufal may or may not go, but isn't really overpaid. In fact at £35k per week he is probably cheap.

[Lee Trundle]

We're playing close to a quarter of a million pounds every week to 3 of those players who won't get anywhere near the team.

That's why they need replacing.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

So many of the squad need to get moved on though, watching Cresswell, Coufal, Soucek, Ings is painful at times......doubt many of them would make the bench at most clubs yet they start for us. 






 

Only Soucek is a regular starter - and him not every match. Coufal and especially Cresswell came in and did a good job. Ings didn't even start with all our other forwards out. He did a decent job, too.

I'm not really sure what happened yesterday to provoke your post. If anything a valid conclusion would be that under a new coach our bench is a bit better than we thought it was.

 

Coufal got absolutely rinsed for the opener. Those players highlight just how bad the state of the squad is that Moyes and Jlop have left behind. Potter may be able to coach some players into a bit of form. But theres plenty that need to be moved on asap. 

 

 

Yes, Coufal did get rinsed for the first. That's what happens when you have people playing out of position because of injuries. However, after the first 10 minutes, he did a pretty good job. The others all did well. Very well, in fact. I just don't see how yesterday's match gave any evidence that those four are terrible players who need replacing.

In fact, that MIGHT be true, but you can't use yesterday's performance to back up your argument.

[Massive Attack]

It's not just about 1 extra non-defensive player but it certainly sets the tone from the beginning of the game with such a lack of creativity going forward. 8 defensive minded starters is overkill and he was brave enough to resist it yesterday considering we had Mavropanos suspended struggling to field Centre Halves. He called it right, whereas the Palace game he got it wrong.

[stubbo]

Something I've liked that Potter did when he came in was to set us up with 3 at the back and flood the midfield for the opposition to get through. It plays more to our strengths and helps hide some of our deficiencies. Lopetegui struggled to settle on 1 formation that worked and it's a welcome change that I think suits this group of players more. Well it certainly worked against Villa twice, if not against Palace where he went far too defensive with 8 defensive players. Not yesterday, the balance was more right between defence and attack.

I agree. Although of course the only difference yesterday was Coufal for Mavropanos (defender for defender) and Soler (who was injured for Palace and not fit to start) for Guido...so a very small adjustment.  

But I guess we have to stop thinking of Emerson and Wan Bissaka in this structure as 'defensive' players...they may have been considered defenders, but their role in the team is not defensive.  It's very much a case of defend as a team and attack as a team, and much less about your attacking players attack and your defensive players defend.

The stats compared between both games proves the balance was overly defensive with 0 goals, 0 on target with just 7 shots at home whereas yesterday we scored 1, 14 shots, 4 on target. That extra non defensive minded player made a difference to our side starting Soler instead of Rodriguez. Much better balance and it showed.

I agree the difference was night and day, but don't agree it's always about a single personnel change.  As an example, we didn't change wingbacks in the second half yesterday, but Potter instructured Emerson to be more positive and aggresive.

Against Palace, we took Rodriguez off and brought Soler on and it got worse.  I just think it's more nuanced than as simple as a personnel change.  It's gameplan, structure, opposition and they way they play and respond.  I think we'd have done better against Palace if he'd left it as it was and NOT brought Soler on....we had a stalemate in the first half against a good and inform side.  Changing it opened us up and allowed them to punch through the middle of us.  Bigger issues in that game were things like Paqueta being fatigued.

Think too often we think it's as simple as 'pick the right lineup' and that fixes all, and if it does't we need new players because they're shit.

What we've seen under Potter so far is so far removed from Lopetegui, with ineffective players looking effective, that it just shows that it's so much more than a simple issue of a squad of good players with the right names stuck in slots on the teamsheet.

[Chip Shop Charlie]

Seeing a lot of criticism of Paqueta for the incident with Digne. Another one from the absolute div Agbonlahor, but absolutely zero criticism for the attempted elbow from Digne. Weird logic. If he fully connected, he would have been off. The way football is, Paqueta has to go down to draw attention to it. 

Like I said earlier in the thread, I thought after the Pedro incident for Brighton, it was universally agreed an attempted elbow was a red card. 

Didn't Andy Carroll get a red for an elbow that didn't connect.
Would be nice with some consistency

[Massive Attack]

Interesting that Kilman had his best game for ages without having to play alongside that disastrous bubble Mavropanos 









 

 

100%. Having to babysit the Greek disaster this season had badly effected his game. He looked more like the way he can play yesterday. 

 

Maybe he's improved because of a week of proper coaching and a match plan? I am expecting the 'greek disaster' to improve as well. 

 

 

He'll be doing well then after 2 different consecutive managers in the Premier League couldn't get a decent tune out of him and Arsenal were not convinced of him at all.

[El Scorchio]

I'm just waiting for the club to be offering Cresswell another years extension on his contract now he's played 2 games this season.

Who's his agent? Genuinely don't know, but is it one of Sullivan's mates by any chance? Great servant over the years but he's just not a contributor any more.

[Mad Ferret]

Rossal has got a proper hate boner for Soucek.

Very strange indeed.
 

[Lee Trundle]

I'm just waiting for the club to be offering Cresswell another years extension on his contract now he's played 2 games this season.

[Rossal]

So many of the squad need to get moved on though, watching Cresswell, Coufal, Soucek, Ings is painful at times......doubt many of them would make the bench at most clubs yet they start for us. 




 

Only Soucek is a regular starter - and him not every match. Coufal and especially Cresswell came in and did a good job. Ings didn't even start with all our other forwards out. He did a decent job, too.

I'm not really sure what happened yesterday to provoke your post. If anything a valid conclusion would be that under a new coach our bench is a bit better than we thought it was.

 

 

Coufal got absolutely rinsed for the opener. Those players highlight just how bad the state of the squad is that Moyes and Jlop have left behind. Potter may be able to coach some players into a bit of form. But theres plenty that need to be moved on asap. 

[honky cat]

Interesting that Kilman had his best game for ages without having to play alongside that disastrous bubble Mavropanos 






 

 

100%. Having to babysit the Greek disaster this season had badly effected his game. He looked more like the way he can play yesterday. 

 

 

Maybe he's improved because of a week of proper coaching and a match plan? I am expecting the 'greek disaster' to improve as well. He has to because i cant see us getting anyone else in before the weekend and fuck knows what the story with todibo is?