The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

 

So unless you get a line item on your  taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.

Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc. 

​​​​​​ Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government.  Believed everything they said.

​
​​

Gooses point was that I am affected by asylum seeker numbers on a daily basis. I argue that I am not, your points are about tax rises costing me more.

However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.

Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!

As for your conspiracy theory that government arent telling me where my money is being spent I think we are ok in in the UK we get all the audits we need. I think successive govts and the OBR would identify any fraud. Call me naive if you want I dont care you seem to have a lot more problems than me!

[ironsofcanada]

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

 

 

So unless you get a line item on your  taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.

Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc. 

​​​​​​ Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government.  Believed everything they said.

​​


​​​​

[goose]

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

Let's take slow, so I am clear.

You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right?  That is what you said went down 2%.

I guess what do you think EES NI means?

Its a waste of time you dont understamd any of it do you.

You thought Ers NI was a tax on the individual!!!!

You are just being pedantic my Ees NI went down by 2% points therefore my tax was reduced not overall by 2% but it still went down significantly. Or are you jow just going to pick me up on that and again change the argument.

Simple question did the taxes I pay rise last year? Answer no they went down.

Over a decade billy. Population growth didn’t happen in a year.

[goose]

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years. 

honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.

 

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

 

 

Its gone up from £4bn to £6bn within two years.
Over ten years it’s gone up from hundreds of millions to £6bn.
At the same time the tax burden has shifted massively.

The tax payer covers that cost and has had to cover that huge increase. 
The cost of the NHS has gone up alongside population growth.

If you don’t think they’re all related to the increased tax burden, I’ve got some magic beans to sell you.

btw if you think “the budget has always been there” I suggest you look at government borrowing.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

“Over the past decade, the financial impact of illegal immigration on UK taxpayers has escalated significantly. In the fiscal year 2019/20, the Home Office planned to spend £430 million on asylum, border, visa, and passport operations. However, by 2023/24, actual spending had surged to approximately £4 billion, reflecting a substantial increase in costs associated with managing illegal immigration and asylum seekers.”

Yes I know all of that! Well done you for googling it.

But did it cause an increase in any of the tax rates that you directly pay or was it absorbed by the overall tax revenue. Did HMRC write to you to ask for more tax. No!

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

Let's take slow, so I am clear.

You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right?  That is what you said went down 2%.

I guess what do you think EES NI means?

Its a waste of time you dont understamd any of it do you.

You thought Ers NI was a tax on the individual!!!!

You are just being pedantic my Ees NI went down by 2% points therefore my tax was reduced not overall by 2% but it still went down significantly. Or are you jow just going to pick me up on that and again change the argument.

Simple question did the taxes I pay rise last year? Answer no they went down.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years. 

honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.

 

 

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

[goose]

“Over the past decade, the financial impact of illegal immigration on UK taxpayers has escalated significantly. In the fiscal year 2019/20, the Home Office planned to spend £430 million on asylum, border, visa, and passport operations. However, by 2023/24, actual spending had surged to approximately £4 billion, reflecting a substantial increase in costs associated with managing illegal immigration and asylum seekers.”

[ironsofcanada]

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

 

Let's take slow, so I am clear.

You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right?  That is what you said went down 2%.

I guess what do you think EES NI means?

[goose]

BillyJenningsBoots

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday. 

 

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

 

So in 10 years the tax burden has gone up for everyone except you?  

in the meantime the uk population has grown by 4.2m people. Absolutely no link between the two facts.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Wait one second.

Surely you don't think that that your ERS NI is the only indication of the tax you pay?

Ffs Ers NI is paid by the Employer not me... the argument is about ME paying more personally out of my pay packet or VAT, excise duty etc. Prove that any of those have been increased over the last 10 years to specifically cover an increase in the numbers Asylum seekers.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

BillyJenningsBoots

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday. 

 

 

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

[goose]

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years. 

honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.

[ironsofcanada]

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Wait one second.

Surely you don't think that that your ERS NI is the only indication of the tax you pay?

[BillyJenningsBoots]

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

 

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

[goose]

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

Of course you pay more tax. You’ve been shown how the tax burden has risen with inflation, you’ve also got the chancellor outlining the pressures it causes on tax revenue.

nobody said £9bn is solely down to immigration, but it’s a simple fact that more people = more higher cost of running the NHS.

 

What are you not getting I do not pay more tax and neither do you.

So costs rise, the Chancellor wants more funds to pay for everything what did she do - she increased Employers NI. Did that increase my tax - no! Did she say due to the increased costs of Asylum seekers we are increasing Ers NI or was it due to the rising costs of the NHS, Education etc and the overall budget defecit left by the previous govt? Yes she did say that.

Oh and that tax budget includes Asylum seeker costs which is less that 0.3% of the total. So is materially negligible and was not the reason Ers NI was increased. 

In fact inspite of the rising costs of the NHS and Education etc to this country my tax has fallen in the last 12 months as the prev govt reduced Ees NI by 2%age points as an election sweetener. Sorry forgot about that FACT!

The last 12 months?? Hahaha come on billy you cannot be this dumb. How about over the past 12 years? Or did the population growth only happen in 1 year?

lol “my NI went down therefore I’m exempt from funding anything to do with illegal immigration”

[ironsofcanada]

BillyJenningsBoots

 

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday. 

[goose]

 

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

[BillyJenningsBoots]

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.
 

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

[BillyJenningsBoots]

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

Of course you pay more tax. You’ve been shown how the tax burden has risen with inflation, you’ve also got the chancellor outlining the pressures it causes on tax revenue.

nobody said £9bn is solely down to immigration, but it’s a simple fact that more people = more higher cost of running the NHS.

 

 

What are you not getting I do not pay more tax and neither do you.

So costs rise, the Chancellor wants more funds to pay for everything what did she do - she increased Employers NI. Did that increase my tax - no! Did she say due to the increased costs of Asylum seekers we are increasing Ers NI or was it due to the rising costs of the NHS, Education etc and the overall budget defecit left by the previous govt? Yes she did say that.

Oh and that tax budget includes Asylum seeker costs which is less that 0.3% of the total. So is materially negligible and was not the reason Ers NI was increased. 

In fact inspite of the rising costs of the NHS and Education etc to this country my tax has fallen in the last 12 months as the prev govt reduced Ees NI by 2%age points as an election sweetener. Sorry forgot about that FACT!

[ironsofcanada]

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

 

I was first permanently in the UK as a student (before my family stuff came through), I paid a fee every year to access the NHS.  I also had to guarantee funding (scholarships primarly but beyond that I had to literally get a bank statement from my mother and have her sign a legal statement that she would support me in an emergency) so I would not access other government services - essentially the dole. 

The fees I paid decreased the need for your taxes to fund the NHS, assuming you were paying taxes then.  

Do you believe all people entering the UK now support your governement with similar fees?

If not you government has to look elsewhere, like your taxes or borrowing (the interest increases your taxes) or printing money (inflation - your money buys less).

Well done you! The 100s of thousands of migrants that come in on workers and student visa pay tax and also contribute positively to this country.

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.

So not sure what your point is!

[goose]

*immigration not inflation 

[goose]

My tax rate has not changed because of Asylum costs and neither has the amount of tax I pay.

Whether that is PAYE,VAT fuel duty or the price of pint its all tax and it has not increased directly because of asylum seekers.

You really think that asylum costs are a major factor of pressure on this or previous govts to increase taxes it amounts to less than half a percent of the total budget. I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

BTW the net migration figures show that asylum seekers are a small percentage of the overall net migration numbers that are mostly workers via visas and students. The largest number in recent years were from India and not Palestine or Syria.

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

Of course you pay more tax. You’ve been shown how the tax burden has risen with inflation, you’ve also got the chancellor outlining the pressures it causes on tax revenue.

nobody said £9bn is solely down to immigration, but it’s a simple fact that more people = more higher cost of running the NHS.

[ironsofcanada]

I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

 

 

I was first permanently in the UK as a student (before my family stuff came through), I paid a fee every year to access the NHS.  I also had to guarantee funding (scholarships primarly but beyond that I had to literally get a bank statement from my mother and have her sign a legal statement that she would support me in an emergency) so I would not access other government services - essentially the dole. 

The fees I paid decreased the need for your taxes to fund the NHS, assuming you were paying taxes then.  

Do you believe all people entering the UK now support your governement with similar fees?

If not you government has to look elsewhere, like your taxes or borrowing (the interest increases your taxes) or printing money (inflation - your money buys less).