The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[Gank]

Is it still unfashionable to support Russia on here? Ukraine isn't even a real country and Zelensky isnt an elected or qualified President. Putin is well within his rights to protect his own people in the Ukraine region. 

protect them from what though? didn't seem like they were in any mortal danger before he put them in the middle of a warzone. And what makes a president qualified? Reagan wasn't bad for an actor!

Under the old regime, Putin's Russia was paying the pensions of the people living in the traditionally Russian region called Ukraine, and to answer your question I'd refer you to the Alley of Angels.

Ukraine since claiming an unjust independance has become the most corrupt nation in the hemisphere. Having Zelensky placed in that role on the basis of having played it in a comedy film previously is the thinnest veil for him being a puppet and since a puppet always has a puppetmaster pulling the strings, that's where Putin has the right to be concerned because that puppet is being controlled by the EU, whose members make up the more financially generous contributors to NATO - an organisation set up principally to oppose Russia. 

That's without talking about the fact that Ukraine was promised as a region of Russia by Catherine the Great. 

The proportion of Ukrainians who would prefer Russian nationality depends upon the news outlet, with Russia Today and the BBC reporting about 65:35 each but on opposite sides. Taking the truth as somewhere in the middle would be roughly half and given the size of the border, it wouldnt be unreasonable to say that the people of the Ukraine region who wish Russian citizenship are those who are currently under Russian control, and thus that this is thr perfect time to conduct talks through an intermediary with both sides agreeing to leave it nkw as it is, and any concessions (like the concession of Donbas) can be blamed on that intermediary, in this case Donald Trump. 

In recent history, Russia has been a more allied player to the USA than Ukraine, that's for sure. Zelensky being put into place without an election put paid to that, which would of course have put Putin on the defensive. 

[ironsofcanada]

I did! In the last paragraph, you know the bit you cut out of the quote on your earlier post. 

I still found those very general.

The suit thing could mean a number of different exchanges What specifically? In general, you can go 2 sides on the that. 

No I wouldn't myself poke fun at it like Trump did. That's not helpful.

But Zelensky is not a general, never been in the military, is in fact conscripting  young people in the military (and keeping certain classes of people in country like my nephew's in-laws).  So is the non-suit in a diplomatic situation is maybe not a great look? 

He wants the folk hero look and it works with you, obviously but if people's lives are on the line maybe make an exception.


There was a whole lot of hating Putin going on. And as Trump said "Understandable".  But again specifics, mate. 

But generally, do you accept that if Trump needs to make a lasting cease fire with 2 parties, he needs to downplay that? Just practical and if you are the leader of country that needs peace, you hold that hatred in for  an hour or so?

For me a switch was flicked when Zelensky said "J.D."  - not Mr Vice President or even Mr. Vance "...what kind of diplomacy?" Again a little thing like suit the (from either side).  

But the disrespect was not one-sided I guess. 

We can go on.. 

But you had a side before this, and you found what you wanted.  

[Hammer I am]

 

Then hold an election. Or even say you would set down to make peace. Don't be so naive.


Zelensky's got you, hook line and sink

Just substitute Trump for Zelensky in your last paragraph and you've just explained yourself perfectly.

Which people has a lost specifically then? Let's see these examples, 

Mate,
Trump  is part of what is threatening my country with economic disaster, I don't like him at all.  I am just a realist that isn't locked into one side and goes with the evidence of what actually happened.

People shifting - Lindsey Graham, but more generally look up the polling places like CNN did on Zelensky post meeting.


I'm sorry a general point like, - Trump and Vance did bad things - and - Zelensky didn't deserve it, is the opposite of specifics.
Tell me specifically what was said or done. And we can discuss it.

I did! In the last paragraph, you know the bit you cut out of the quote on your earlier post. 

With regard to Graham fair enough one example, not like him to change his deeply held position after a chance meeting with trump is it? Bit of history repeating itself there. And I wonder how many Trump supporters have gone the other way, plenty of his base seem embarrassed by it

I'm done for the eve, not running away, you're just giving me a headache but playing dumb all the time. I know you're not dumb so give it up

[ironsofcanada]

Last point, During his inaugural address in 2019, Zelensky told lawmakers:“I do not want my picture in your offices: the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.”Such a stark contrast to Trump who has his own gold framed mug shot hanging just outside the oval office. And posts videos of a 100 foot golden stature of himself in the middle of Gaza, the most recent American acquisition in his new empire.

A little glimpse into the soul of each of them. 

 

Then hold an election. Or even say you would set down to make peace. Don't be so naive.


Zelensky's got you, hook line and sink

Just substitute Trump for Zelensky in your last paragraph and you've just explained yourself perfectly.

Which people has a lost specifically then? Let's see these examples, 

Mate,
Trump  is part of what is threatening my country with economic disaster, I don't like him at all.  I am just a realist that isn't locked into one side and goes with the evidence of what actually happened.

People shifting - Lindsey Graham, but more generally look up the polling places like CNN did on Zelensky post meeting.


I'm sorry a general point like, - Trump and Vance did bad things - and - Zelensky didn't deserve it, is the opposite of specifics.
Tell me specifically what was said or done. And we can discuss it.

[Hammer I am]

Last point, During his inaugural address in 2019, Zelensky told lawmakers:“I do not want my picture in your offices: the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.”Such a stark contrast to Trump who has his own gold framed mug shot hanging just outside the oval office. And posts videos of a 100 foot golden stature of himself in the middle of Gaza, the most recent American acquisition in his new empire.

A little glimpse into the soul of each of them. 

 

Then hold an election. Or even say you would set down to make peace. Don't be so naive.


Zelensky's got you, hook line and sinker. Fortunately, he lost a lot of people who actually want peace because of yesterday. 

Just substitute Trump for Zelensky in your last paragraph and you've just explained yourself perfectly.

Which people has a lost specifically then? Let's see these examples, 

[Hammer I am]

 

No you wouldn't, you're being deliberately obtuse, you know the specifics, they've been clipped enough.

Way to run from an actual discussion of the events.

Again, this continual running and hiding from the points you have made makes it is clear that you don't think they hold up to scrutiny. 

 

 

I gave you specifics, it's YOU that fails to counter anything so nice try 

[ironsofcanada]

Last point, During his inaugural address in 2019, Zelensky told lawmakers:“I do not want my picture in your offices: the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.”Such a stark contrast to Trump who has his own gold framed mug shot hanging just outside the oval office. And posts videos of a 100 foot golden stature of himself in the middle of Gaza, the most recent American acquisition in his new empire.

A little glimpse into the soul of each of them. 

 

 

Then hold an election. Or even say you would set down to make peace. Don't be so naive.


Zelensky's got you, hook line and sinker. Fortunately, he lost a lot of people who actually want peace because of yesterday. 

[Nutsin]

Britain First will pass a strict law that anyone who speaks out in favour of any war must enlist and serve on the frontline in that war. It’s the only way to curtail warmongering.


 

[ironsofcanada]

 

No you wouldn't, you're being deliberately obtuse, you know the specifics, they've been clipped enough.

Way to run from an actual discussion of the events.

Again, this continual running and hiding from the points you have made makes it is clear that you don't think they hold up to scrutiny. 

[Hammer I am]

Last point, During his inaugural address in 2019, Zelensky told lawmakers:“I do not want my picture in your offices: the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.”Such a stark contrast to Trump who has his own gold framed mug shot hanging just outside the oval office. And posts videos of a 100 foot golden stature of himself in the middle of Gaza, the most recent American acquisition in his new empire.

A little glimpse into the soul of each of them. 

[Hammer I am]

 

I've watched the whole thing, I'm not sure how you can seriously defend their behaviour and he somehow deserved being treated like that. 

I would be interested in hearing the specifics you are refering to, especially from the first 40 mins or so. 

 

 

No you wouldn't, you're being deliberately obtuse, you know the specifics, they've been clipped enough. As well you know as you're very keen to keep mentioning the first 40 minutes instead.

we witnessed an argument between a man without a suit, and a suit without a man. 

Was telling too how he let the mask slip and fully went to complimenting Putin as a kindred spirit and how "they've been a lot together" compare that to how he talked about Zelensky, saying he has hatred in his heart, and is ungrateful. 

[XKhammer]

Breaking news is that Putin is going to mediate a peace deal between Zelensky and Trump 

[ironsofcanada]

 

I've watched the whole thing, I'm not sure how you can seriously defend their behaviour and he somehow deserved being treated like that. 

I would be interested in hearing the specifics you are refering to, especially from the first 40 mins or so. 

[Nutsin]

Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

What do you think this golden age will look like?

 

 

America first Goose. Smaller Gov’t lower taxes, pro growth policy, strong leadership, common sense policies, deregulation, greater transparency, end of woke, Globalism movement reduction in members and influence, less crime, safer streets, No wars! Lower inflation, Fair trade, healthier food supply And I do expect to see the US debt reduce but that will take a minute. 

[Hammer I am]

Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

What do you think this golden age will look like?

Something like Rodney's grown up Damien dream I imagine

[Hammer I am]

 

I must be slow tonight because I still don't get the second part. obviously he's made comments in public but that wasn't person on person negotiation (diplomacy if you will!)

Zelensky rose to the bait on what seemed to be an orchestrated ambush designed to humiliate him.

 

The political theatre we watched and more subtly in the 40 minutes before (I watched the whole thing, not just the theatre parts) Zelensky was trying to negotiate, change the deal, do diplomacy, whatever you want to call it, in front of the cameras.
 
It was not behind closed doors...completely contradictory to what you said you wanted. 


Your last sentence is a parrotting of the neo-con war hawks I have heard since. It fantastical rubbish with some of the nastiest of backing.

Explain this "orchestrated ambush." Zelensky has a number of opportunities to negotiate and sign a deal in the last weeks and days.  The Trump admin wanted it done long ago.

Zelensky insisted he go to the White House.  So you are supposed to have an intro press conference, hash out the details - behind closed doors - and then sign the deal, cameras , fancy dinner etc.  If you think he was justfied in negotiating in front of the press (though you say opposite) he is not being ambushed.  If anyone was surprised it was Trump and Vance, if you watch the whole thing.

I've watched the whole thing, I'm not sure how you can seriously defend their behaviour and he somehow deserved being treated like that. It's like Trump saying Ukraine started the war

I wonder if you going to slowly fade into the background as Trump gets more and more unhinged going forward. I bet Argentina is looking on in interest 

[goose]

Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

What do you think this golden age will look like?

[Hammer I am]

Nutsin,

The increased British funding will be coming from frozen Russian assets so no we're not going to feel the pinch  personally as a result. How poetic 

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Are you saying those aren’t the facts. You only need google it to find the truth. Oh hang on why would you want to that!?

 

Oh you want me to google what a left wing rag has apparently fact checked? How do they fact check the treasury payment system? Why was it only left wing rags getting all this funding? You want me to trust the fact checking of the liberal media ffs? Sorry but they’ve been caught in way too many lies for me to take their fact checking seriously.

 

Is Politico a left wing rag... thought it was a Centrist digital news site. 

It's an anti-Semitic and pro-Palestine news site for sure.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Who fact checked that Billy, Politico or the BBC?

Are you saying those aren’t the facts. You only need google it to find the truth. Oh hang on why would you want to that!?

 

Oh you want me to google what a left wing rag has apparently fact checked? How do they fact check the treasury payment system? Why was it only left wing rags getting all this funding? You want me to trust the fact checking of the liberal media ffs? Sorry but they’ve been caught in way too many lies for me to take their fact checking seriously.

 

 

Is Politico a left wing rag... thought it was a Centrist digital news site. Its only a problem due to them trying to link Trump to Putin. No wonder Trump wants to discredit them.

Leta face it everythings left wing compared to Trumps ethos!

[Nutsin]

Anyway Zelensky is toast, which is a good thing. He is the last person you want to try and negotiate with Putin.

Get him out, bring in a peace agreement and start rebuilding what’s left.

You can expect the MAGA movement to continue to slowly spread across Europe with added US pressure on the left wing Bureaucracy which is the EU. 

Personally I’d hate to see the good people of the U K suffer while the US has its Golden age.

[Nutsin]

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

Thin Ice? Trump recognizes we have too much debt, which is why we have DOGE and which is why he wants an end to the war ffs! Isn’t that obvious?

if you think the B of E has anywhere near the influence and power and control as the Federal Reserve you are sorely Mistaken. 

But as I said, if you are happy with additional cuts in spending or Having to deal with an  increase in taxation which includes inflation and  Interest rates then go for it.

 

The interest on your national debt last year was $1.1tr.
Thats just the interest.

How much do you think DOGE is saving you this year?

You keep talking about cuts & increased taxes but neither is actually happening. Cuts in foreign aid are absolutely fine with me, I’m happy for that money to go on defence spending.

No idea how much DOGE will end up saving the US Taxpayer. To be honest I doubt it will reduce the deficit but I do expect the money to be used to encourage economic growth and will  increase GDP.

You can go to DOGE.GOV and it lists all the savings so far and it shows receipts. A bit more legitimate than a CNN fact check.

[Nutsin]

 

Uk has given 0.9% of GDP to Ukraine while the US has only given 0.5%. So please stop pretending their not paying their fair share.

if you wanna start pointing fingers about national debt you’re on very thin ice.

 

Hmmmmn 0.5% of $27 trillion is a lot more than 0.9% of $3 trillion. Not sure what your point is, bottom line is your 0.9% is about to go up and ours is about to go down.Good eh! 

 

You honestly think UK can and should match US pound for pound in matters like this?? There's a reason why every joint operation involving money is done on a percentage of GDP since the beginning of time. You really haven't thought that through have you

 

 

No, I don’t mate! But we’re out now, your choice if you want to help fill the void. But like I’ve been trying to explain to Goose it will hurt the British people if they do.
Thanks for making my point for me! U reading this Goose?

[Nurse Ratched]

Political question: On the Labour front bench there are Rachel Reeves and Angela Raynor, The Conservatives have Kemi Badenoch and Pritti Patel. Place them in the order you would. 

 

 

Finally, a man with the right political instincts. 

[ironsofcanada]

 

I must be slow tonight because I still don't get the second part. obviously he's made comments in public but that wasn't person on person negotiation (diplomacy if you will!)

Zelensky rose to the bait on what seemed to be an orchestrated ambush designed to humiliate him.

 

 

The political theatre we watched and more subtly in the 40 minutes before (I watched the whole thing, not just the theatre parts) Zelensky was trying to negotiate, change the deal, do diplomacy, whatever you want to call it, in front of the cameras.
 
It was not behind closed doors...completely contradictory to what you said you wanted. 


Your last sentence is a parrotting of the neo-con war hawks I have heard since. It fantastical rubbish with some of the nastiest of backing.

Explain this "orchestrated ambush." Zelensky has a number of opportunities to negotiate and sign a deal in the last weeks and days.  The Trump admin wanted it done long ago.

Zelensky insisted he go to the White House.  So you are supposed to have an intro press conference, hash out the details - behind closed doors - and then sign the deal, cameras , fancy dinner etc.  If you think he was justfied in negotiating in front of the press (though you say opposite) he is not being ambushed.  If anyone was surprised it was Trump and Vance, if you watch the whole thing.