West Ham v Newcastle - 10th March (Official Match & Predictions Thread)

[honky cat]

I dont want to create a scene, but this has been the longest time without a match since forever, and i cant keep reading about politics, millwall, drivel for the rest of the weekend.

Nailed on win for our massive bastards.

Feel free to delete when someone who knows what they're doing comes along.
Irons.

Since you made the first move let's keep this one.

I'll update with all the usual match thread content in the next day or so.

Stubbo

 

Match Centre:

Odds:
West Ham: 23/10
Draw: 13/5
Newcastle: 5/4

Pre-Match Press Conference:
Official Press Conference

Tactical Preview: 
Babbling Irons

Watch-along:
Hammers Chat

Streams:

SportHD 

(With all live streams be mindful they can carry viruses etc.  Don't click on any ads and use a VPN).
  

[stubbo]

Surely if he’s refused surgery and thus delayed his return to action with no foreseeable return date in sight, then he’s in breach of his contract?
you wouldn’t hear of this sort of nonsense anywhere else 

Apparrently it's not uncommon....Zouma did the same.  Could be on religious grounds. But ultimately the Club are unlikely to be able to compel him to go under the knife.

[Maverick180180]

Surely if he’s refused surgery and thus delayed his return to action with no foreseeable return date in sight, then he’s in breach of his contract?
you wouldn’t hear of this sort of nonsense anywhere else 

[stubbo]

I had a feeling that something was up with Jimmy, it's all been too quite like he's the forgotten man. A terrible blow and it is one area where I do have some sympathy for Potter, Summerville was a key player for him.

Supposedly the club believe he needs an operation, but he doesn't want to have one and wants to try and heal naturally.

Sounds like a saga that could go on.

[Manuel]

I had a feeling that something was up with Jimmy, it's all been too quite like he's the forgotten man. A terrible blow and it is one area where I do have some sympathy for Potter, Summerville was a key player for him.

[Maverick180180]

Being reported that Summerville is now out for the rest of the season 
If true, what the fuck is going on with the club? 

[Sir Alf]

Apologies for tainting El Scorch with my agreement but I totally agree with his analysis. Well I would its the same as I bore on about week after week and going back to the days of Kovac. Rice was able to solve the problem of a one paced, not very athletic, not that physical midfield for a while but once he was sold we did not replace “like for like”. Alvarez is a goid footballer and provides some physicality ( too much at wrong times on occasion ) but is not that quick and needs “legs” alongside. Much like Partey has looked a much better player at Arsenal since Rice has been doing the leg work.

We simply cannot pick a central midfield that cam play thru or around the press.  I watched Forest and the speed that Gibbs White moves and plays at creates so much more space and doesnt allow the time for the opposition to reset after a turnover.

If we played another forward, like we started against Brentford, we risk giving the opposition the midfield to run in with just 2 centre mids.  

A lot of it imo is a hangover from the Moyes days and squad built for sitting deep,in a low block with 10 behind the ball and not playomg out but pumping direct to Antonio who was good at holding it up and the team then launched a quick counter.  We did not recruit the right profile of player last summer to play the possession based games of Lop and Potter, that we needed to be effective at it.

All about opinions, but regardless of manager it wont imo be fixed without recruitment this summer. If we get the wrong profile of players again ( slow,not athletic enough) then Potter will be toast by xmas .

[El Scorchio]

So the conundrum goes on. We saw in the first game his preferred approach is 3-4-3....Summerville at wing back on the right, Fullkrug through the middle.  Hard to argue that AWB has played the wing back role almost to perfection so Summerville hasn't been missed 



 

AWB has indeed been superb. But in my opinion Summerville has the edge going forward and his absence is contributing to our blunted attack of late.

 

Annoying we have not seen summerville. I thought the game Potter played him right wing (may have been villa?) he looked very good. So much pace.

Agree. When the fuck is he back? We do have an issue though, that essentially all our best talent plays in the same or similar positions. 

[dealcanvey]

So the conundrum goes on. We saw in the first game his preferred approach is 3-4-3....Summerville at wing back on the right, Fullkrug through the middle.  Hard to argue that AWB has played the wing back role almost to perfection so Summerville hasn't been missed 


 

AWB has indeed been superb. But in my opinion Summerville has the edge going forward and his absence is contributing to our blunted attack of late.

 

Annoying we have not seen summerville. I thought the game Potter played him right wing (may have been villa?) he looked very good. So much pace.

[Eerie Decent]

"We were just as ineffective with Ings Ferguson and Paqueta on the pitch as we were when it was just Kudus and Bowen. Changing things up front/attacking did nothing."

It's a bit different throwing a load of attackers on in desperation, than starting a team with more than TWO fucking attackers. The mindset from the start is completely different, and the game would flow different.

"However it’s hard to have a go at him too much for sticking to the side that just won two in a row"

What an outdated, old school, brainless opinion. Are you saying if Bowen misses the next match, and we shit housed our way to a narrow win, you wouldn't start him in the next? I thought we was getting a new age, tactically brilliant manager, yet he started the same team 3 games in a row, against 3 drastically different opposition? 

Not at all- the problem would still have persisted if there's fuck all in midfield to get the ball TO those attackers. That was the problem, and swapping who is up front isn't going to change it. If anything it's going to make it worse as you're taking resource away from an already struggling midfield to add more up top and cutting any supply line even further.

And of course it's not an outdated brainless opinion to not mess with a winning side. In fact it's a brainless decision TO mess with a side that's just won two and kept two clean sheets, including away at Arsenal, unnecessarily- especially given the actual circumstances we're in. Sure in a fictitious situation where your best player and captain may not have played you'd probably put him in but that's an exception and seen as he was playing in those games anyway it's a completely moot point to make in this situation. In the actual situation we were in, the only player you could possibly make an argument for who wasn't playing is Paqueta, and seen as he's been inconsistent at best (and was indeed anonymous when he came on) it's highly unlikely you put him in there.

Completely disagree with all of that. Anyway, let's hope he doesn't keep the same team that scraped wins in the 2 previous games before Monday night's fucking borefest.

Already said, he could start with Alvarez in his best position as a DM and not as a forward, he could drop Soucek for Paqueta, and go with Soler or JWP (Soler for me, who for some reason has only been played out wide).

So yes, he does have options. The absolute worst option he has is JWP holding, Alvarez further up the pitch, and Soucek doing fuck knows what. But it worked against the shortest team in the league in the most boring win of the season, so let's just persist with that

[wils]

So the conundrum goes on. We saw in the first game his preferred approach is 3-4-3....Summerville at wing back on the right, Fullkrug through the middle.  Hard to argue that AWB has played the wing back role almost to perfection so Summerville hasn't been missed 

 

AWB has indeed been superb. But in my opinion Summerville has the edge going forward and his absence is contributing to our blunted attack of late.

[dealcanvey]

There was alot of recycling the ball against Newcastle. Getting to wide positions and where we would usually expect a cross to go in it ended up going back to a centre midfielder looking for an opening. Newcastle were doing the same. Made it even more boring.

We either need to move the ball much quicker between the lines to create these openings or be more direct in those situations. 

[El Scorchio]

Appreciate that when you have the luxury of a competitive squad, although in our situation, what changes are you actually going to make, though? You're not dropping JWP or Alvarez in midfield, so the only option anyway would be Paqueta or Soler for Soucek. He hasn't really got much up his sleeve at all. And the other players were unable to alter the game when he made changes in midfield anyway. Ferguson for Soucek may also have been an option but he'd have been on scraps due to us having nothing in the middle.

[fraser]

We went away to Arsenal and played those tactics and we won, though they had no forwards and ten men for a while. 

But then to line up the same against Leicester and create one decent chance (the one we scored from) after all that possession, then try it again against a much better Newcastle was stupid and as I expected when seeing the line up no goals. 

It was an absolute bore fest over there. 

When Moyes approached games like that he got slaughtered and rightly so, so should Potter. 
​​​

[Manuel]

Alex Ferguson always changed up his sides, just saying.

Each his own, but I find it puzzling how a so called modern day coach puts out the same eleven against different types of opposition both home and away. When you consider how tactical the modern day game is it simply doesn't add up. Each game is a different challenge and should be approached accordingly in terms of shape, formation and personnel. His subs are scattergun too.

[El Scorchio]

"We were just as ineffective with Ings Ferguson and Paqueta on the pitch as we were when it was just Kudus and Bowen. Changing things up front/attacking did nothing."

It's a bit different throwing a load of attackers on in desperation, than starting a team with more than TWO fucking attackers. The mindset from the start is completely different, and the game would flow different.

"However it’s hard to have a go at him too much for sticking to the side that just won two in a row"

What an outdated, old school, brainless opinion. Are you saying if Bowen misses the next match, and we shit housed our way to a narrow win, you wouldn't start him in the next? I thought we was getting a new age, tactically brilliant manager, yet he started the same team 3 games in a row, against 3 drastically different opposition? 

Not at all- the problem would still have persisted if there's fuck all in midfield to get the ball TO those attackers. That was the problem, and swapping who is up front isn't going to change it. If anything it's going to make it worse as you're taking resource away from an already struggling midfield to add more up top and cutting any supply line even further.

And of course it's not an outdated brainless opinion to not mess with a winning side. In fact it's a brainless decision TO mess with a side that's just won two and kept two clean sheets, including away at Arsenal, unnecessarily- especially given the actual circumstances we're in. Sure in a fictitious situation where your best player and captain may not have played you'd probably put him in but that's an exception and seen as he was playing in those games anyway it's a completely moot point to make in this situation. In the actual situation we were in, the only player you could possibly make an argument for who wasn't playing is Paqueta, and seen as he's been inconsistent at best (and was indeed anonymous when he came on) it's highly unlikely you put him in there.

[Eerie Decent]

"We were just as ineffective with Ings Ferguson and Paqueta on the pitch as we were when it was just Kudus and Bowen. Changing things up front/attacking did nothing."

It's a bit different throwing a load of attackers on in desperation, than starting a team with more than TWO fucking attackers. The mindset from the start is completely different, and the game would flow different.

"However it’s hard to have a go at him too much for sticking to the side that just won two in a row"

What an outdated, old school, brainless opinion. Are you saying if Bowen misses the next match, and we shit housed our way to a narrow win, you wouldn't start him in the next? I thought we was getting a new age, tactically brilliant manager, yet he started the same team 3 games in a row, against 3 drastically different opposition? 

[9898]

We've employed a scared manager. Failure at Chelsea has affected him and he is managing to save his reputation short term statistically rather than make decisions that will benefit the team in the future.
Also, let's talk Scarles. Youth player or not, christ is he limited and a bit of a plodder. Also has the infuriating habit of jogging back slowly when he loses the ball and the opposition are attacking. 
 

[El Scorchio]

We were just as ineffective with Ings Ferguson and Paqueta on the pitch as we were when it was just Kudus and Bowen. Changing things up front/attacking did nothing. The problem clearly stems from further back and a blind man can see we are inadequate in centre midfield despite whomever in the squad he picks. None of the play can go through there when we have the ball at the back and we can’t get through the lines at all. (And for those who have mentioned it’s not an easy watch and it makes it hard for the crowd to get behind, that’s completely true. Lots of frustration there the other night around me.) 

As has been mentioned it’s less of a problem when playing away because it’s not so necessary but at home it’s a big problem. However it’s hard to have a go at him too much for sticking to the side that just won two in a row and got two clean sheets, but it clearly didn’t work out in this match and it needs sorting. There are no players currently at the club who are the solution. It likely has to be suffered until the end of the season when you’d hope we pick a player or two up in the transfer market. We also had this issue when both Moyes and Lop were at the club so it’s long standing. This is more watchable and less awful as we aren’t camped in our own penalty box for 86 minutes of every game or lining up in a suicidal formation and getting pumped for 4 goals every third match but it still needs to be a lot better. Some of the players in CM if not all need to go. Probably soler, JWP, guido. Alvarez and Paqueta would be the ones if any you’d keep but they are also the only ones who would command a fee to actually get new blood in. Soucek you probably would get some money for- come on Moyesey- so he’s probably best option to sell. We need to basically gut the squad to progress. For me that means we have to just endure to the end of the season and hope there’s a plan that Sullivan isn’t going to scupper. 

I feel our problems are a bit similar to Man U with Amorim. A limited and one dimensional squad that isn’t capable of doing what their new manager needs them to do. Only difference is our manager has the good grace not to call out all our players in public on a weekly basis and prefers to do his best to try and build them up, not knock them down. 

[Rossal]

The reason we're shit going forward is because we play with wing backs who get found constantly

They then have forwards in front of them who prefer to drift wide 

So the only play from the middle has to come from the centre mids and theyre shit at attacking

so we're just left with the ball ending up out wide every single attack with a cross into the box 

how Potter hasn't realised this yet or looked to address it is very worrying 

[Manuel]

I've always believed a raucous home crowd can make a difference over the course of a season, IMO at least worth a couple of points. I watched the Forest City game last weekend and the fans there played a big part from that game tailing off to a 0-0 instead of a 1-0. Seen it at Anfield many times too. We had 5-6 forward players on the pitch at the end on Monday but wouldn't had scored had we been out there all night.

Point being if the club/team/ even the fucking dj don't find a way of getting some atmosphere going over there I think it is going to be a huge problem for the foreseeable. These home results/performances are not stacking up. In short, we really don't seem to have a home advantage at all these days.

I'm far from convinced that we are going to be in a much better place come August, as some subscribe too.

[Eerie Decent]

It's ok for people to keep harping on about him shoring up the defence by playing 9 defensive players, but in 3 home games against Palace, Brentford & Newcastle, we've scored ZERO goals, had about 5 shots on target, and barely put a tackle in 

You cannot blame that on Sullivan. Yes, the squad is imbalanced, but come on, there is enough talent, and he's had enough time, to do much better than that at home to those 3 teams.

Away from home, he can do that forever, not bothered. But at that soulless cսnt bowl, he needs to get the fans inside. People are dropping like flies, and he needs to show some bollocks. That was always my big worry with him, I've never been sure he has the toughness for a club like ours. Let's hope that's wrong 

[Mex Martillo]

It's just too many defensive players. I could put up with it when we were winning, but we need a change. I felt JWP, Paqueta and Soler were not used to playing together and need to be given a chance. They were marginally better than JWP, Alvarez and Soucek against Newcastle. I would not bring Fullkrug straight in from injury and you can see why Brighton prefer an aging Welbeck and resonable Brazilian.

As for Potter, he is about Moyes level at the moment. Have see if he can make to step up to entertainment and winning. To be fair, we have advanced on possession and passing, but low on attacking.
 

[Manuel]

I think one genuine excuse for Potter is the injury to Summerville (who has seemingly vanished) think he was very key to Potter's plans.

[Manuel]

Stubbo - The excuses you're serving up for Potter is a fucking joke. It was him that said he will serve up football that the fans want and connect with, but instead we are now the worst attacking side in the whole league, 17 shots on target in his 10 games. is that Sullivan's fault? It's a fucking joke and there are no excuses for it.

[Texas Iron]

We will never progress with Sullivan and Brady running the club…

No Vision…No Strategy…No structure…No Football orientation…

They run it as. A Cash Cow…squeezing profits and improving base club value…

There is no Soul…focus on The Footballl and the supporters…