The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[goose]

 

Lying again? where did I say that America can replace every Chinese product? If they replace just 25% the Chinese will shit themselves. 

Let’s see how long they will last without our advanced micro chips….. My guess is it’s not too long.

Then there is the huge trade imbalance in their favour that they will lose too.

Agreements for Trillions in new investments in US production from various countries and companies have already been struck so it’s already happening.


MAGA!

No, let’s see how America gets on without microchips. Your production and retail sales of thousands of products would grind to a halt overnight.

thats without considering the trade that goes the other direction for Intel, Qualcomm etc etc.

Looks like China isn’t a factor old boy! Taiwan and S Korea aren’t going anywhere. Wrong again?

U.S. microchips are primarily designed and manufactured by a mix of American companies and foreign manufacturers with strong U.S. ties. Key players include:

- **Design and IP**: 
  - **Nvidia**: Leading in GPUs for AI, gaming, and data centers.
  - **AMD**: Produces CPUs, GPUs, and server chips.
  - **Intel**: Designs CPUs, server chips, and some AI accelerators; also manufactures chips.
  - **Qualcomm**: Specializes in mobile and IoT chips.
  - **Apple**: Designs custom chips (e.g., M-series, A-series) for its devices.
  - **Broadcom**: Focuses on networking and connectivity chips.

- **Manufacturing (Foundries)**:
  - **Intel**: One of the few U.S. companies with domestic foundries, producing chips in Arizona, Oregon, and New Mexico.
  - **GlobalFoundries**: U.S.-based, with fabs in New York and Vermont, focusing on mature nodes (not cutting-edge).
  - **TSMC (Taiwan)**: Not U.S.-based but critical for U.S. chipmakers (e.g., Nvidia, AMD, Apple), with new U.S. fabs under construction in Arizona.
  - **Samsung (South Korea)**: Manufactures some chips for U.S. firms, with a growing U.S. presence (e.g., Texas fab).

- **Equipment and Tools**:
  - **Applied Materials**, **Lam Research**, **KLA**: U.S. firms supplying critical chipmaking equipment.
  - **Cadence**, **Synopsys**: Provide essential chip design software.

Most advanced U.S.-designed chips (e.g., Nvidia’s H100) rely on TSMC for manufacturing due to its cutting-edge processes (3nm, 5nm). The U.S. is investing heavily via the CHIPS Act to boost domestic production, but currently, only about 10% of global chip manufacturing happens in the U.S.

If you want specifics on a company or recent developments, I can search X or the web. Interested?

 

 

Looks like you don’t understand the global supply chain of semiconductors.

btw to your earlier point of only replacing 25% of Chinese imports - what happens to the other 75%?

[Nutsin]

Because it’s a very simplistic view of markets.
Firstly you’re assuming that American can replace every Chinese product, component & raw materials. It cannot, and where it can the US alternative is more than 100% more expensive. Hence why they are using China.

For components & raw materials the retail market isn’t growing. The make up of the product is. There’s no additional market share up for grabs there, just higher cost of goods.

For Chinese completed products going straight to market you’re assuming that America has a ready made alternative, in many cases it doesn’t. Otherwise you assume that the American version will be cheaper even with tariffs, and in most cases it won’t.

This is completely ignoring every other country on the planet who can produce these products (cheaper than the US) who can & will enter the market.

 

Lying again? where did I say that America can replace every Chinese product? If they replace just 25% the Chinese will shit themselves. 

Let’s see how long they will last without our advanced micro chips….. My guess is it’s not too long.

Then there is the huge trade imbalance in their favour that they will lose too.

Agreements for Trillions in new investments in US production from various countries and companies have already been struck so it’s already happening.


MAGA!

No, let’s see how America gets on without microchips. Your production and retail sales of thousands of products would grind to a halt overnight.

thats without considering the trade that goes the other direction for Intel, Qualcomm etc etc.

Looks like China isn’t a factor old boy! Taiwan and S Korea aren’t going anywhere. Wrong again?

U.S. microchips are primarily designed and manufactured by a mix of American companies and foreign manufacturers with strong U.S. ties. Key players include:

- **Design and IP**: 
  - **Nvidia**: Leading in GPUs for AI, gaming, and data centers.
  - **AMD**: Produces CPUs, GPUs, and server chips.
  - **Intel**: Designs CPUs, server chips, and some AI accelerators; also manufactures chips.
  - **Qualcomm**: Specializes in mobile and IoT chips.
  - **Apple**: Designs custom chips (e.g., M-series, A-series) for its devices.
  - **Broadcom**: Focuses on networking and connectivity chips.

- **Manufacturing (Foundries)**:
  - **Intel**: One of the few U.S. companies with domestic foundries, producing chips in Arizona, Oregon, and New Mexico.
  - **GlobalFoundries**: U.S.-based, with fabs in New York and Vermont, focusing on mature nodes (not cutting-edge).
  - **TSMC (Taiwan)**: Not U.S.-based but critical for U.S. chipmakers (e.g., Nvidia, AMD, Apple), with new U.S. fabs under construction in Arizona.
  - **Samsung (South Korea)**: Manufactures some chips for U.S. firms, with a growing U.S. presence (e.g., Texas fab).

- **Equipment and Tools**:
  - **Applied Materials**, **Lam Research**, **KLA**: U.S. firms supplying critical chipmaking equipment.
  - **Cadence**, **Synopsys**: Provide essential chip design software.

Most advanced U.S.-designed chips (e.g., Nvidia’s H100) rely on TSMC for manufacturing due to its cutting-edge processes (3nm, 5nm). The U.S. is investing heavily via the CHIPS Act to boost domestic production, but currently, only about 10% of global chip manufacturing happens in the U.S.

If you want specifics on a company or recent developments, I can search X or the web. Interested?

[Hammer I am]

Let’s see how long they will last without our advanced micro chips….. My guess is it’s not too long.



MAGA!

They'd just back engineer them like everything else

[goose]

Why would it be less profit if they have a bigger slice of the pie (market share) and how will they mark up their prices if it’s a competitive market?

Because it’s a very simplistic view of markets.
Firstly you’re assuming that American can replace every Chinese product, component & raw materials. It cannot, and where it can the US alternative is more than 100% more expensive. Hence why they are using China.

For components & raw materials the retail market isn’t growing. The make up of the product is. There’s no additional market share up for grabs there, just higher cost of goods.

For Chinese completed products going straight to market you’re assuming that America has a ready made alternative, in many cases it doesn’t. Otherwise you assume that the American version will be cheaper even with tariffs, and in most cases it won’t.

This is completely ignoring every other country on the planet who can produce these products (cheaper than the US) who can & will enter the market.

 

Lying again? where did I say that America can replace every Chinese product? If they replace just 25% the Chinese will shit themselves. 

Let’s see how long they will last without our advanced micro chips….. My guess is it’s not too long.

Then there is the huge trade imbalance in their favour that they will lose too.

Agreements for Trillions in new investments in US production from various countries and companies have already been struck so it’s already happening.


MAGA!

No, let’s see how America gets on without microchips. Your production and retail sales of thousands of products would grind to a halt overnight.

thats without considering the trade that goes the other direction for Intel, Qualcomm etc etc.

[Nutsin]

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Why would it be less profit if they have a bigger slice of the pie (market share) and how will they mark up their prices if it’s a competitive market?

Because it’s a very simplistic view of markets.
Firstly you’re assuming that American can replace every Chinese product, component & raw materials. It cannot, and where it can the US alternative is more than 100% more expensive. Hence why they are using China.

For components & raw materials the retail market isn’t growing. The make up of the product is. There’s no additional market share up for grabs there, just higher cost of goods.

For Chinese completed products going straight to market you’re assuming that America has a ready made alternative, in many cases it doesn’t. Otherwise you assume that the American version will be cheaper even with tariffs, and in most cases it won’t.

This is completely ignoring every other country on the planet who can produce these products (cheaper than the US) who can & will enter the market.

 

 

Lying again? where did I say that America can replace every Chinese product? If they replace just 25% the Chinese will shit themselves. 

Let’s see how long they will last without our advanced micro chips….. My guess is it’s not too long.

Then there is the huge trade imbalance in their favour that they will lose too.

Agreements for Trillions in new investments in US production from various countries and companies have already been struck so it’s already happening.


MAGA!

[Nutsin]

Agreed neither the EU nor the UK will take your bleached chicken or your shit gas guzzling cars why do you think Asian and European cars are so popular its not just the price.

If you are not importing cheap goods from China where are you going to get them from. You cant make them in the US so either you carry on importing or prices will rocket.

Its just common sense. 

What the US need is a long term strategy and Im not sure the Tarrif hokey cokey is the way to achieve it. Try making stuff people actually want. Tech and AI is surely what the US is good at why try to bring back an era of manufacturing when others will always do it cheaper and better that is what a global economy is for! Trump just got to stop harking backwards and look forwards. Focus on the areas that count and apply tarrifs specifically to those instead of this ridiculous blanket approach.

The services the US provides and exports virtually levels off the deficit with the EU so why pretend its all about agriculture and manufacturing? 

What world do you live in ffs! 

we have plenty of Mercedes and BMW’s, VW etc: out here and they get just a many mpg as a Cadillac, Ford and GMC and Chevy. Oh and they’re the same size too.

As for Pick up trucks there are plenty of short bed trucks available although there are some bigger ones too but all of them are smaller than a fucking Lorry ffs! Think of a !
BMW X5 for example.
 So stop talking bollocks!

And there are plenty of other countries we can get product from.

As for food I’m pretty fucking sure we have the technology to produce food to meet your standards. 

What a bunch of fuckwits.

 

Oh here’s Nutsack making out American cars are as good as BMWs and VWs what utter bollocks! Yeah dream on. If that was the case how do any VWs get sold in America?

Why would we want your trucks however big or small they are. To ship them all the way over here when we have home built and Europe built on our doorstep! When exactly in any time in the past has Europe bought American cars or trucks in any sort of volume. Answer they havent and its not because of any tarrifs.

When you and you MAGA muppets start realising that US goods arent all that you'll concentrate on what you are actually good at, although even that might be difficult now youve pissed all your potential markets off!!

You have no idea what you are talking about. 

[BillyJenningsBoots]

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Agreed neither the EU nor the UK will take your bleached chicken or your shit gas guzzling cars why do you think Asian and European cars are so popular its not just the price.

If you are not importing cheap goods from China where are you going to get them from. You cant make them in the US so either you carry on importing or prices will rocket.

Its just common sense. 

What the US need is a long term strategy and Im not sure the Tarrif hokey cokey is the way to achieve it. Try making stuff people actually want. Tech and AI is surely what the US is good at why try to bring back an era of manufacturing when others will always do it cheaper and better that is what a global economy is for! Trump just got to stop harking backwards and look forwards. Focus on the areas that count and apply tarrifs specifically to those instead of this ridiculous blanket approach.

The services the US provides and exports virtually levels off the deficit with the EU so why pretend its all about agriculture and manufacturing? 

What world do you live in ffs! 

we have plenty of Mercedes and BMW’s, VW etc: out here and they get just a many mpg as a Cadillac, Ford and GMC and Chevy. Oh and they’re the same size too.

As for Pick up trucks there are plenty of short bed trucks available although there are some bigger ones too but all of them are smaller than a fucking Lorry ffs! Think of a !
BMW X5 for example.
 So stop talking bollocks!

And there are plenty of other countries we can get product from.

As for food I’m pretty fucking sure we have the technology to produce food to meet your standards. 

What a bunch of fuckwits.

 

 

Oh here’s Nutsack making out American cars are as good as BMWs and VWs what utter bollocks! Yeah dream on. If that was the case how do any VWs get sold in America?

Why would we want your trucks however big or small they are. To ship them all the way over here when we have home built and Europe built on our doorstep! When exactly in any time in the past has Europe bought American cars or trucks in any sort of volume. Answer they havent and its not because of any tarrifs.

When you and you MAGA muppets start realising that US goods arent all that you'll concentrate on what you are actually good at, although even that might be difficult now youve pissed all your potential markets off!!

[goose]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.










 

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Why would it be less profit if they have a bigger slice of the pie (market share) and how will they mark up their prices if it’s a competitive market?

Because it’s a very simplistic view of markets.
Firstly you’re assuming that American can replace every Chinese product, component & raw materials. It cannot, and where it can the US alternative is more than 100% more expensive. Hence why they are using China.

For components & raw materials the retail market isn’t growing. The make up of the product is. There’s no additional market share up for grabs there, just higher cost of goods.

For Chinese completed products going straight to market you’re assuming that America has a ready made alternative, in many cases it doesn’t. Otherwise you assume that the American version will be cheaper even with tariffs, and in most cases it won’t.

This is completely ignoring every other country on the planet who can produce these products (cheaper than the US) who can & will enter the market.

[Nutsin]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.









 

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Why would it be less profit if they have a bigger slice of the pie (market share) and how will they mark up their prices if it’s a competitive market?

[Nutsin]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.










 

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Agreed neither the EU nor the UK will take your bleached chicken or your shit gas guzzling cars why do you think Asian and European cars are so popular its not just the price.

If you are not importing cheap goods from China where are you going to get them from. You cant make them in the US so either you carry on importing or prices will rocket.

Its just common sense. 

What the US need is a long term strategy and Im not sure the Tarrif hokey cokey is the way to achieve it. Try making stuff people actually want. Tech and AI is surely what the US is good at why try to bring back an era of manufacturing when others will always do it cheaper and better that is what a global economy is for! Trump just got to stop harking backwards and look forwards. Focus on the areas that count and apply tarrifs specifically to those instead of this ridiculous blanket approach.

The services the US provides and exports virtually levels off the deficit with the EU so why pretend its all about agriculture and manufacturing? 

What world do you live in ffs! 

we have plenty of Mercedes and BMW’s, VW etc: out here and they get just a many mpg as a Cadillac, Ford and GMC and Chevy. Oh and they’re the same size too.

As for Pick up trucks there are plenty of short bed trucks available although there are some bigger ones too but all of them are smaller than a fucking Lorry ffs! Think of a !
BMW X5 for example.
 So stop talking bollocks!

And there are plenty of other countries we can get product from.

As for food I’m pretty fucking sure we have the technology to produce food to meet your standards. 

What a bunch of fuckwits.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.









 

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

Agreed neither the EU nor the UK will take your bleached chicken or your shit gas guzzling cars why do you think Asian and European cars are so popular its not just the price.

If you are not importing cheap goods from China where are you going to get them from. You cant make them in the US so either you carry on importing or prices will rocket.

Its just common sense. 

What the US need is a long term strategy and Im not sure the Tarrif hokey cokey is the way to achieve it. Try making stuff people actually want. Tech and AI is surely what the US is good at why try to bring back an era of manufacturing when others will always do it cheaper and better that is what a global economy is for! Trump just got to stop harking backwards and look forwards. Focus on the areas that count and apply tarrifs specifically to those instead of this ridiculous blanket approach.

The services the US provides and exports virtually levels off the deficit with the EU so why pretend its all about agriculture and manufacturing? 

[goose]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.








 

No business is going to just shrug and settle for less profit. Short term they’ll pass it on to consumers and longer term they’ll lobby to have the tariffs reversed.

US is decades away from being able to walk away from Chinese imports. And to get there will cost billions in investment to then produce more expensive products.

It will never be delivered. Mid terms, next election will see it reversed.

and there’s a good reason people don’t buy American cars & food……… and the answer is not tariffs.

[zebthecat]

Many US trucks, in particular, would not pass Eurpean or UK safety standards either.
Being huge, thirsty and crap doesn't help either.

[Hammer I am]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.





 

many US cars are just not compatible with British roads, and many US food products are not compatible with health, so I can't imagine much will change there

[Nutsin]

I think the USA can increase trade with Mexico, which will help our southern neighbours pull more people out of poverty. Much rather a wealthier Mexico than a wealthier China. Same with the Canadiens, India and Vietnam too.

A free and fair trade market will help prevent the corporations from passing the cost onto the consumer due to increased competition, the shareholders will give up a portion of their profits by percentage but will have a bigger pie to make up for it. So it’s a win win.

Trump already issued a warning to US car manufacturers not to take the piss and increase prices. So he is watching it, I’m sure the Unions will be too.

Trumps tax cuts will help too.

And NOBODY has said this will all happen over night but that is where global trade is heading. The EU will remove its trade barriers and Tarrifs, as will others and you will see more American made products globally which includes Europe so look for USA Trucks and Cars.
on the road and US agriculture on your shelves. And the USA will not be beholden to China.

The US consumer is not easily replaced, China’s production is.







 

[goose]

This is what you said:

“We have all seen the effects that the China model has done to the USA, who do you think will want to follow suit ? 

Do you think the EU will be on board with that?
 Is it a price worth paying for cheap goods?”

The EU’s imports of Chinese goods largely follows the same pattern as the US.

you’ll have to post up your buddies ‘tweet’, I don’t have an account. Funny how you only wanna reference him when he agrees with you…….

I referenced him at the very beginning, remember? And I called him out for his globalist scaremongering. I knew he knew better. 

And no, the EU doesn’t as the USA has a major trade deficit. For China to trade with the EU instead of the USA they would want to maintain the same deficit, otherwise why change?

Fact is the EU won’t want to pick up the slack for a number of reasons mentioned in my c&p post, however China will have little to gain if they made a change which means they’d both be stupid to do it and risk the wrath from the USA.

Remember who pays the lion share of the EU’s defence budget too. Trump won’t tolerate the EU funding China’s war machine just like he didn’t like them funding Russia’s.

China has boxed itself in. It loses if it looks to trade elsewhere, it is as simple as that.

As for Trump looking to bring jobs back to the USA, this will help drive up wages, Corporate America will have to pony up, instead of just worrying about shareholders at the expense of the worker. Time for workers and unions to get their voices back which is already happening.

China has the losing hand.

If there’s demand of course the EU will continue to purchase from China. The Chinese have already started looking at alternative trade partners for their products.

You think corporate America will just suffer higher cost of goods and not pass that cost through to consumers?

Which specific goods/raw materials currently sourced from China do you think the US are able to replace in the short term?

[Nutsin]

This is what you said:

“We have all seen the effects that the China model has done to the USA, who do you think will want to follow suit ? 

Do you think the EU will be on board with that?
 Is it a price worth paying for cheap goods?”

The EU’s imports of Chinese goods largely follows the same pattern as the US.

you’ll have to post up your buddies ‘tweet’, I don’t have an account. Funny how you only wanna reference him when he agrees with you…….

I referenced him at the very beginning, remember? And I called him out for his globalist scaremongering. I knew he knew better. 

And no, the EU doesn’t as the USA has a major trade deficit. For China to trade with the EU instead of the USA they would want to maintain the same deficit, otherwise why change?

Fact is the EU won’t want to pick up the slack for a number of reasons mentioned in my c&p post, however China will have little to gain if they made a change which means they’d both be stupid to do it and risk the wrath from the USA.

Remember who pays the lion share of the EU’s defence budget too. Trump won’t tolerate the EU funding China’s war machine just like he didn’t like them funding Russia’s.

China has boxed itself in. It loses if it looks to trade elsewhere, it is as simple as that.

As for Trump looking to bring jobs back to the USA, this will help drive up wages, Corporate America will have to pony up, instead of just worrying about shareholders at the expense of the worker. Time for workers and unions to get their voices back which is already happening.

China has the losing hand.

[goose]

This is what you said:

“We have all seen the effects that the China model has done to the USA, who do you think will want to follow suit ? 

Do you think the EU will be on board with that?
 Is it a price worth paying for cheap goods?”

The EU’s imports of Chinese goods largely follows the same pattern as the US.

you’ll have to post up your buddies ‘tweet’, I don’t have an account. Funny how you only wanna reference him when he agrees with you…….

[Nutsin]

Here is El Erians most recent tweet if the link doesn’t work.

Noting that "of all the ruckus in markets over the past few weeks, the most concerning part was the rapid rise in Treasury yields," here is the @FT on the real yield on 10-year US government bonds:
"This is the subcomponent that is hardest to read into. The jump could have been from levered positions unwinding, or potentially from a drawdown in foreign investment, or both."
#economy #markets #bonds

[Nutsin]

Great bit of AI c&p there son.

Your point was about China taking away manufacturing jobs from the middle classes because the US is importing those manufactured goods.

The EU imports the same white goods, electrical items, clothes, toys etc etc.
Only difference is that the EU makes & exports more luxury items like cars & alcohol & fashion brands.

 

 

Of course it was C&P, why do you think I was posting it as my own ffs? 

No my point is that to fill the void left by the USA you will lose manufacturing jobs. Get it right.

The EU already has a higher unemployment rate than the USA.

Oh and here is a tweet from El Erian, basically admitting that the recent correction in the bond market could be in part attributed to deleveraging, which means people getting kicked out of their positions due to margin calls or selling to reduce their risk of a margin call.
Exactly What I have been saying. Read below.

Oh and China have reached out to the USA. Looks like they want to make a deal. Personally I hope Trump tells them to fuck off. 

here is El Erians tweet. He has finally stopped the scaremongering.

https://x.com/elerianm?s=21&t=lLtbssQkNTv4aBFIadkCwg

[goose]

Great bit of AI c&p there son.

Your point was about China taking away manufacturing jobs from the middle classes because the US is importing those manufactured goods.

The EU imports the same white goods, electrical items, clothes, toys etc etc.
Only difference is that the EU makes & exports more luxury items like cars & alcohol & fashion brands.

[Nutsin]

You think the EU is any different to the US?

Yes. 

The EU imports more from China than the US does.

The trade relationships between the United States (US) and China, and the European Union (EU) and China, differ significantly in terms of trade balances, composition of goods and services, policy approaches, and geopolitical considerations. Below is a detailed comparison based on the most recent available data and trends up to April 2025:

---

### **1. Trade Balance**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - The US has a significant trade deficit with China, which reached **$295.4 billion in 2024** for goods, with imports from China totaling **$438.9 billion** and exports to China at **$143.5 billion**. Including services, the deficit was **$263.3 billion**.[](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/chin ... blic-china)[](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... nd-mexico/)
  - This persistent deficit has been a focal point of US trade policy, with concerns about reliance on Chinese manufacturing and perceived unfair trade practices, such as currency manipulation and state subsidies.[](https://guides.loc.gov/us-trade-with-china)
  - The deficit peaked at **$418.2 billion in 2018** during the Trump administration’s trade war but has since moderated due to tariffs and supply chain diversification.[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - The EU also runs a substantial trade deficit with China for goods, which was **€292 billion in 2023** (down from a record €396 billion in 2022). In 2020, the deficit was €181 billion, showing a growing imbalance over time.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)[](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... statistics)
  - Unlike the US, the EU has a trade surplus in services with China, amounting to **€14.1 billion in 2023**, with China being the EU’s fourth-largest services trading partner.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
  - The EU’s trade deficit is driven by high volumes of manufactured goods imports, but its export profile includes high-value goods like motor vehicles and pharmaceuticals, which partially offset the imbalance.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)

**Key Difference**: The US has a larger goods trade deficit with China relative to its total trade volume, and unlike the EU, it does not benefit from a services trade surplus. The EU’s trade deficit, while significant, is mitigated by stronger exports in specific high-value sectors and a services surplus.

---

### **2. Composition of Trade**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - **Imports from China**: Dominated by consumer goods and technology, including **telephones, computers, semiconductors, furniture, toys, and textiles**. China was the second-largest supplier of US goods in 2024, accounting for **12% of total US imports**.[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)
  - **Exports to China**: Include **agricultural products** (e.g., soybeans), **aircraft**, **machinery**, and **energy products** like natural gas. However, exports are significantly lower than imports, contributing to the trade imbalance.[](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/chin ... blic-china)
  - Services trade is less prominent, with the US exporting **$199.2 billion** in goods and services combined to China in 2024, compared to importing **$462.5 billion**.[](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... nd-mexico/)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - **Imports from China**: Primarily **telecommunications equipment, electrical machinery, and automatic data-processing machines**, reflecting China’s role as a manufacturing hub for electronics. In 2023, China supplied **€516.2 billion** in goods to the EU, the largest share of EU imports after the US.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)[](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025 ... them-apart)
  - **Exports to China**: Focused on high-value manufactured goods, including **motor cars and vehicles, medicaments, and machinery**, with exports totaling **€223.5 billion in 2023**. The EU is a major supplier of luxury goods and automotive products, driven by China’s growing middle class.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)[](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025 ... them-apart)[](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56093378)
  - **Services Trade**: The EU exports significant services to China, particularly in **financial services, tourism, and intellectual property**, contributing to the €14.1 billion surplus in 2023.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)

**Key Difference**: The EU exports a higher proportion of high-value, specialized goods (e.g., vehicles, pharmaceuticals) to China compared to the US, which focuses more on raw materials and agricultural products. The EU also has a stronger services trade presence, while US trade is heavily skewed toward goods imports.

---

### **3. Policy and Geopolitical Approach**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - The US has adopted a confrontational approach, emphasizing **tariffs** and **export controls** to address trade imbalances and national security concerns. In 2024, tariffs on Chinese goods reached **145%** (including a 125% reciprocal tariff and a 20% tariff related to fentanyl precursors).[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)
  - The Trump administration’s trade war (2018–2019) and subsequent policies under Biden aimed to reduce dependency on Chinese imports, leading to a **2.8% increase in imports** and a **2.9% decrease in exports** from 2023 to 2024.[](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/chin ... blic-china)
  - The US has prioritized **decoupling** or **derisking** supply chains, encouraging companies to shift production to countries like Vietnam and Mexico, which has reduced China’s share of US imports (Mexico overtook China as the top US supplier in 2023).[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)[](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/11/how-chi ... iffs-.html)
  - National security concerns, such as China’s dominance in **5G networks** and critical minerals, drive policies to restrict Chinese technology and investments.[](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/conten ... lationship)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - The EU adopts a **multifaceted approach**, viewing China as a **partner, competitor, and systemic rival** (per its 2019 strategic outlook). It seeks **reciprocity** and a **level playing field**, addressing issues like market access, intellectual property rights, and forced technology transfers.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
  - The EU has imposed targeted tariffs, such as on **Chinese electric vehicles** (up to 35.3% in 2024) and **glass fiber yarns**, to counter dumping and protect local industries. However, it avoids broad, punitive tariffs like those of the US.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)[](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/worl ... china.html)
  - The EU engages in **dialogue** through mechanisms like the **EU-China Summit** and **High-Level Economic and Trade Dialogue**, aiming to maintain open communication while addressing trade imbalances.[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
  - Unlike the US, the EU is increasingly dependent on Chinese imports, with China’s share of EU manufactured goods imports rising, making full decoupling less feasible. This dependency complicates alignment with US policies on issues like Huawei and 5G.[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)[](https://www.piie.com/research/piie-char ... orted-more)[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)

**Key Difference**: The US pursues an aggressive, tariff-heavy strategy focused on reducing dependency and countering China’s geopolitical influence, while the EU balances cooperation and competition, prioritizing market access and dialogue to manage its growing reliance on Chinese goods.

---

### **4. Trade Dependencies and Diversification**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - The US has reduced its reliance on Chinese imports since 2018, with China’s share of US imports dropping as Mexico, Canada, and the EU have become larger suppliers. US import concentration for manufactured goods has diversified, reversing trends from 2013–2018.[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)[](https://www.piie.com/research/piie-char ... orted-more)[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)
  - US trade dependencies on China remain significant for **electronics, semiconductors, and critical minerals**, but policies encourage reshoring and sourcing from allies like Vietnam (US imports from Vietnam doubled from 2019 to 2024).[](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/11/how-chi ... iffs-.html)
  - China’s import dependency on the US is relatively low, except for commodities like **soybeans** and **energy**, allowing China to diversify its trade toward emerging markets.[](https://merics.org/en/report/growing-as ... rade-china)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - The EU has become **more dependent** on Chinese manufactured goods, with China’s contribution to the EU’s import concentration index rising from 2013 to 2023. EU trade dependencies on China increased to **12% of imports in 2022**, up from 7% in 2000.[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)[](https://merics.org/en/report/growing-as ... rade-china)
  - China is the EU’s **largest source of goods imports** (€516.2 billion in 2023), surpassing the US. This dependency is particularly strong in **telecommunications equipment** and **electronics**, making derisking challenging.[](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025 ... them-apart)[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)
  - The EU struggles with diversifying import sources due to China’s dominance in global manufacturing (29% of world value-added in manufacturing) and the lack of a unified industrial policy.[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)[](https://www.allianz-trade.com/en_BE/new ... china.html)

**Key Difference**: The US has made progress in diversifying away from Chinese imports, while the EU’s dependency on China has deepened, creating a divergence in economic vulnerabilities and policy priorities.

---

### **5. Impact of Recent Developments (2024–2025)**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - The escalation of the US-China trade war under President Trump’s second term (starting 2025) has intensified with **145% tariffs** on Chinese goods, prompting China to impose **34% retaliatory tariffs** on all US imports. This has raised concerns about global trade disruptions and higher consumer prices in the US.[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)[](https://www.politico.eu/article/global- ... s-tariffs/)[](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/11/how-chi ... iffs-.html)
  - US companies are increasingly relocating production to Southeast Asia and Latin America to mitigate tariff impacts, with Chinese firms also shifting operations to countries like Vietnam.[](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/11/how-chi ... iffs-.html)
  - Public sentiment in the US is skeptical, with only **10% of Americans** believing US-China trade benefits the US more than China, compared to **46%** who see it favoring China.[](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... nd-mexico/)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - Trump’s tariffs on both China and the EU (20% across-the-board, higher for cars) have pushed the EU to explore closer trade ties with China to offset potential losses in the US market. For example, the EU and China restarted negotiations on **electric vehicle pricing** in April 2025.[](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/worl ... china.html)[](https://www.reuters.com/world/trade-cri ... 025-04-11/)[](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/worl ... china.html)
  - However, tensions persist due to China’s **overproduction** and **dumping** of cheap goods, which threaten EU industries like steel and chemicals, and its support for Russia in the Ukraine conflict.[](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/worl ... china.html)[](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025 ... them-apart)
  - The EU faces internal divisions, with some member states favoring deeper ties with China for economic reasons, while others align with US security concerns, complicating a unified approach.[](https://www.reuters.com/world/trade-cri ... 025-04-11/)[](https://www.allianz-trade.com/en_BE/new ... china.html)

**Key Difference**: The US is doubling down on a trade war with China, driving decoupling efforts, while the EU is caught between seeking new opportunities with China and addressing competitive and geopolitical challenges, leading to a more ambivalent strategy.

---

### **6. Global Trade Context**
- **US-China Trade**:
  - The US has lost ground to China as a global trade partner, with China surpassing the US in total trade volume in 2012 ($6.2 trillion vs. $5.3 trillion in 2024). China is now the dominant trade partner for most of Asia, Africa, and South America.[](https://www.voronoiapp.com/trade/-Globa ... -2024-4080)[](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/how ... 2000-2024/)
  - The USMCA (United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement) has strengthened North American trade, with Mexico overtaking China as the US’s top supplier in 2023.[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)

- **EU-China Trade**:
  - China overtook the US as the EU’s largest trading partner in 2020, with trade worth **$709 billion** compared to $671 billion with the US. This shift was driven by China’s economic recovery post-COVID and demand for EU goods like cars and luxury products.[](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56093378)[](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56093378)
  - The EU’s trade with China is more integrated into its economy (28% of GDP vs. 18.4% for the US), making it more vulnerable to disruptions in the US-China trade war.[](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/vis ... 2000-2024/)

**Key Difference**: China’s trade dominance is more pronounced in the EU, where it is the top trading partner, while the US has diversified its trade partnerships, reducing China’s relative importance.

---

### **Summary Table**

| **Aspect**                | **US-China Trade**                                                                 | **EU-China Trade**                                                                 |
|---------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| **Goods Trade Deficit**   | $295.4 billion (2024)                                                    | €292 billion (2023)                                                       |[](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/chin ... blic-china)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
| **Services Trade**        | Deficit ($263.3 billion total, 2024)                                      | Surplus (€14.1 billion, 2023)                                             |[](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... nd-mexico/)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
| **Main Imports**          | Telephones, computers, semiconductors, furniture, textiles                | Telecommunications equipment, electrical machinery, data-processing machines |[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
| **Main Exports**          | Agricultural products, aircraft, machinery, energy                        | Motor cars, medicaments, machinery                                        |[](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/chin ... blic-china)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
| **Policy Approach**       | Aggressive tariffs (145%), decoupling, national security focus            | Dialogue, targeted tariffs, reciprocity focus                              |[](https://english.elpais.com/economy-and- ... nship.html)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)
| **Dependency Trend**      | Decreasing, diversifying to Mexico, Vietnam                               | Increasing, higher reliance on Chinese manufactures                        |[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)[](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco ... pendencies)
| **Geopolitical Stance**   | Confrontational, trade war escalation                                    | Partner, competitor, rival; seeks cooperation amid tensions                |[](https://www.politico.eu/article/global- ... s-tariffs/)[](https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-tr ... s/china_en)

---

### **Conclusion**
The US-China trade relationship is characterized by a large trade deficit, a focus on consumer goods imports, and an aggressive policy of tariffs and decoupling driven by national security and economic competition. In contrast, the EU-China trade relationship is more balanced in terms of goods and services, with a stronger emphasis on high-value exports and services, but it faces challenges from growing dependency and internal divisions. While the US actively reduces its reliance on China, the EU is deepening its trade ties, navigating a delicate balance between economic opportunities and geopolitical risks. These differences reflect distinct economic structures, policy priorities, and geopolitical alignments as of April 2025.

[goose]

You think the EU is any different to the US?

Yes. 

The EU imports more from China than the US does.

[Nutsin]

You think the EU is any different to the US?

Yes. 

[nychammer]

Something to consider. 

If China’s cheap labor hollows out a countries middle class by taking away manufacturing Jobs, and undercuts the value of Domestic products, why would another country choose that option ?  We have all seen the effects that the China model has done to the USA, who do you think will want to follow suit ? 

Do you think the EU will be on board with that?
 Is it a price worth paying for cheap goods?

 There’s a price to pay for cheap goods. Not sure other countries will want to pay it or can afford to pay it. 

Trump needs to slow walk any deal with China, make them feel the pain, civil unrest will be a big issue. So will the continued decline of their real estate market.

might take a minute but it’s gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

if you are going to go this route you have to hold the line. The end game is fair trade and once those agreements are in place things will even off, but you have to hold feet to the fire to get them. Every chicken little is out there squawking doom and gloom, but Trump was elected promising he would do this so we the people can have little complaint, we have no choice but to trust and believe it works in our favor.