England v India - 5 Test series

[Fauxstralian]

1st Test June 20-24 @ Headingley
England team : Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes, Jamie Smith, Chris Woakes, Brydon Carse, Josh Tongue, Shoaib Bashir.

No Bethell & various fast bowlers .. Atkinson, Wood, Archer unavailable

India lose Kohli and Rohit Sharma to retirement after the debacle in Australia

[Westham67]

Terry Alderman was a menace not too pacey either line and length bowler 

[Fauxstralian]

That Ashes finished 2-1 to England which flattered Australia 
Probably Australia’s lowest ebb in living memory after Lillee, Marsh & Chappell retired.
Simpson turned things around concentrating on fitness & fielding & promoting the likes of Mark Taylor , Steve Waugh, Jones & McDermott. 
Helped when he got into the 90’s that the likes of Ponting, M Waugh , McGrath & Warne appeared 
Simpson was a decent leg spinner (as well as a brilliant slip fielder) & Warne always said he helped him enormously with his tactics 
Warne said he was his best coach … and Warne was one who said cricket teams only needed coaches to carry them to the ground 

[Westham67]

Sad to hear of the death of Bob Simpson overnight
Brilliant Test career including an Ashes triple century then came back a decade later at 41 to captain Australia when WSC decimated the team. Averaged over 50 as Australia beat India 3-2 then became coach in 1986 
Won the 1987 ODI World Cup, regained the Ashes in 1989 & ended the West Indies Test domination
RIP

 

RIP . I recall listening to England winning the Ashes 86/87. Then, the better era of Australian cricket started under Alan Border as captain

[Fauxstralian]

Sad to hear of the death of Bob Simpson overnight
Brilliant Test career including an Ashes triple century then came back a decade later at 41 to captain Australia when WSC decimated the team. Averaged over 50 as Australia beat India 3-2 then became coach in 1986 
Won the 1987 ODI World Cup, regained the Ashes in 1989 & ended the West Indies Test domination
RIP

[Westham67]

 I am all for objective discussion, my favourite sport is test cricket, but I dont keep up with county cricket

Bowling for the Ashes in Australia, my part of the bowling attack, Archer, Atkins, Potts and Tongue

Do we have any proven spinners of note? 

 

[Fauxstralian]

Was surprised that Woakes was retained when Anderson was chopped off at the knees by McCullum
Has a great record in England but surely was NEVER pencilled in for Australia

Speaking of records in Australia I saw the other day the Test records of Englands top 7 in Australia 
Duckett, Brook & Smith have never batted there
The Test averages of the rest ……Root 36 Stokes 28 Crawley 27 & Pope 11

[Snodders' Beard]

I see Woakes is opting for rehab rather than surgery because of the recovery period
McCullum should be as brutal as he was with Anderson & tell him to have the surgery as his Test career is done

I get Woakes' desire to take part in the grandest occasion possible for an English cricketer but he'd be bloody stupid to risk further damage to his shoulder just to tour a place where his record is abysmal anyway. It might not be the send off he imagined but him coming out to bat with his arm in a sling will immortalize him, and that'd be undone if he broke down midway through an Ashes test and left his teammates playing with 10. 

[Fauxstralian]

Sorry my Google search threw up an AI answer and is often the case Mr AI is an uninformed cսnt . Crane of course! His training with Warnie at Hampshire obviously didn’t help 
Obviously with English conditions favouring seam & maybe finger spin leg spin doesn’t get much of a look in for the majority of the English ‘summer’ 
Ahmed would be a decent alternative in Australia rather than a second off spinner

[Westside]

Sven, how on earth could you ommit, Mason Crane, from your list of England leg spin alumni?

Surey, his one test (at Sydney), one wicket @ 193, was worth a mention...?

[Fauxstralian]

Rashid 60 Test wickets @ 39.8
Ian Salisbury 20 Test wickets @ 79.95
Scott Borthwick 1 Test 4 wickets @ 20.5
Chris Schofield 2 Tests 0 wickets

Understand the most successful English leg spinner ever has 108 wickets

[zebthecat]

Er....
Adil Rashid. Only 19 Tests, 152 ODIs and 127 T20 matches.

[Fauxstralian]

I see Woakes is opting for rehab rather than surgery because of the recovery period
McCullum should be as brutal as he was with Anderson & tell him to have the surgery as his Test career is done

England will take Bashir but have to take Rehan Ahmed as a leg spin option
English leg spinner … rarer than the DODO

[Eerie Decent]

Was interested to see on the Oval pitch which was the first one to have a bit of lift in it that Duckett & Crawley struggled with a 4th stump line moving away when the ball had a bit of bounce
Siraj must have beaten Duckett a dozen times with that ball
Joe Roots second innings dismissal could even have come to you from previous Australian visits. 4th stump lift edged to slip 

 

That opening partnership will have a huge say in what happens in the series. Crawley clearly does not deserve to carry the drinks, let alone be in the side, but he could have a good series, as he's at his best against very quick bowling. And Duckett does find a way of making runs. But both could more likely have a nightmare,
 and we'll be right on the back foot.

[Eerie Decent]

They should've stuck with Dawson. He bowled on the shittest pitch of the series, which no one looked threatening on, but he just gives you so much control, which Bashir doesn't. And he's a very good batsmen, I'd have him in the side as a batsman over Crawley & Pope. Down there, you could have him controlling an end, and letting the quicks like Wood and Archer have short sharp spells.

That said, he's probably yesterdays news now. The intriguing one would be Rehan Ahmed, his batting has really come on, batted at 3 for his county this season, averaging 50 and scores quickly, plus 20+ wickets at 19. He'd suit conditions over there, could bat anywhere in the order, and is a potential match winner. I think the Aussie tail is going to be the key, and he could really do a number on them.

Still, they'll go with Bashir. Total waste imo. If we got our team right, we could win out there, but can't see it now. Problems outside of Crawley & Pope, is that I have a feeling Duckett might struggle on their pitches, Root's struggles over there might do for him, then we're really in the shit. I think Brook is gonna love it though, sticking a couple of quid on him being our leading run scorer.


 

Yeah, Dawson got hung out to dry - again - on that pitch. He's a decent all-rounder and, on better pitches for spin, would definitely chip in. He could easily be a back-up spin option on tour. But this management group seem to treat him as a bit of a spare part.

I hope he proves me wrong - would like nothing more - but their commitment to Bashir seems misplaced. At this stage, he's a promising cricketer and not a lot more. Test average of 39 per wicket and a first-class average of almost 50. He doesn't quite seem ready, yet they keep throwing him in. Leach has bowled thousands more overs, taken several hundred more wickets (including in Ashes series), at a decent average, and is an older and more experienced head.

Leach would be targeted down there, and he doesn't seem the strongest of characters. Dont think there's much between him and Dawson with the ball, but Dawson is much the better all round Cricketer.

As I said though, I think down there I'd go with Ahmed. He's good enough as a batsman alone, definitely deserves to be ahead of Bethell based on his county's form.

[Fauxstralian]

Was interested to see on the Oval pitch which was the first one to have a bit of lift in it that Duckett & Crawley struggled with a 4th stump line moving away when the ball had a bit of bounce
Siraj must have beaten Duckett a dozen times with that ball
Joe Roots second innings dismissal could even have come to you from previous Australian visits. 4th stump lift edged to slip 
 

[southbankbornnbred]

They should've stuck with Dawson. He bowled on the shittest pitch of the series, which no one looked threatening on, but he just gives you so much control, which Bashir doesn't. And he's a very good batsmen, I'd have him in the side as a batsman over Crawley & Pope. Down there, you could have him controlling an end, and letting the quicks like Wood and Archer have short sharp spells.

That said, he's probably yesterdays news now. The intriguing one would be Rehan Ahmed, his batting has really come on, batted at 3 for his county this season, averaging 50 and scores quickly, plus 20+ wickets at 19. He'd suit conditions over there, could bat anywhere in the order, and is a potential match winner. I think the Aussie tail is going to be the key, and he could really do a number on them.

Still, they'll go with Bashir. Total waste imo. If we got our team right, we could win out there, but can't see it now. Problems outside of Crawley & Pope, is that I have a feeling Duckett might struggle on their pitches, Root's struggles over there might do for him, then we're really in the shit. I think Brook is gonna love it though, sticking a couple of quid on him being our leading run scorer.

 

Yeah, Dawson got hung out to dry - again - on that pitch. He's a decent all-rounder and, on better pitches for spin, would definitely chip in. He could easily be a back-up spin option on tour. But this management group seem to treat him as a bit of a spare part.

I hope he proves me wrong - would like nothing more - but their commitment to Bashir seems misplaced. At this stage, he's a promising cricketer and not a lot more. Test average of 39 per wicket and a first-class average of almost 50. He doesn't quite seem ready, yet they keep throwing him in. Leach has bowled thousands more overs, taken several hundred more wickets (including in Ashes series), at a decent average, and is an older and more experienced head.

[Eerie Decent]

They should've stuck with Dawson. He bowled on the shittest pitch of the series, which no one looked threatening on, but he just gives you so much control, which Bashir doesn't. And he's a very good batsmen, I'd have him in the side as a batsman over Crawley & Pope. Down there, you could have him controlling an end, and letting the quicks like Wood and Archer have short sharp spells.

That said, he's probably yesterdays news now. The intriguing one would be Rehan Ahmed, his batting has really come on, batted at 3 for his county this season, averaging 50 and scores quickly, plus 20+ wickets at 19. He'd suit conditions over there, could bat anywhere in the order, and is a potential match winner. I think the Aussie tail is going to be the key, and he could really do a number on them.

Still, they'll go with Bashir. Total waste imo. If we got our team right, we could win out there, but can't see it now. Problems outside of Crawley & Pope, is that I have a feeling Duckett might struggle on their pitches, Root's struggles over there might do for him, then we're really in the shit. I think Brook is gonna love it though, sticking a couple of quid on him being our leading run scorer.
 

[southbankbornnbred]

They are definitely going to go with Bashir, they think his height and style will suit the pitches down under. Don't agree with it myself, but that's what they'll do.

 

Think you might be right, Eerie.

Our options are not great. But I'd probably go with Leach as our best option. He's slightly the better bowler, more experienced, has played in Ashes series before and can handle the relentless Aussie press intrusion/barrage. Touring down there is not for the faint-hearted, as everybody knows. Leach is probably the best equipped for on the pitch and off it. Could always take Bashir as well, for the experience and as a back up. But almost as a 17th or 18th man on the flight.

[Fauxstralian]

Am sure someone will start an Ashes thread soon ….

I think having invested in the likes of Bashir & Crawley England have aimed them at the Ashes so won’t change now
I noticed Dawson got one Test and then was JETTISONED 

As for Australia there is no certainty about their top 3 
It may even come down to the 4 Sheffield Shield games due to happen in Oct / Nov which needs all the likely candidate to play
Personally I would have pensioned off Khawaja after the last Ashes and started the search then
Konstas at 19 needs to go back to Shield cricket for a couple of years and work on his red ball game
Cameron Green will be bowling again soon so whether that means he goes back to 6 is complicated by Beau Webster coming in and doing great in the India series.
The form opener is Jake Wetherald and suspect he will come in if he maintains his form.
Reckon we will see Nathan McSweeney again too. Played 3 Tests against PEAK Bumrah and everyone struggled against him. 
Josh Inglis & Jason Sangha will be in the mix too
Add them to Smith Head Carey Starc Cummins Hazlewood & Lyon & things might not be as bad as some hope
Including Jonathan Agnew who I heard say that if England had won the Fifth Test v India that Australia would be RATTLED 
Think the series is wide open and it’s definitely Englands best chance in 14 years
Hopefully Australia will continue to produce PROPER pitches that allow all skills (including SPINNERS) to shine and will keep the boundaries at 70+ m not the minimum 55m toytown distances ordered by the Kiwi Krew for Bazball

[Eerie Decent]

They are definitely going to go with Bashir, they think his height and style will suit the pitches down under. Don't agree with it myself, but that's what they'll do.
 

[southbankbornnbred]

Was listening to Ponting looking ahead to the Ashes and, understandably, he thinks the Aussies are in a real state in terms of their batting line-up.

Unsurprisingly, he also thinks England will be competitive if they can start Archer and Wood with the new ball. But that's a big 'if'. When was the last time the two of them were fit at the same time?

More interestingly, Ponting says England won't win matches if they can't find a spinner. Especially as so many of our bowlers have injury records that mean they won't bowl long spells.

IF the quicks are all fit, England can take Archer, Wood, Atkinson, Carse, Tongue and Stokes - and rotate them in tests. But the spinner will be a vital choice. That's the bowler who can regularly turn 178-4 (with your quicks getting tired) into 250-8 in Australia.

Interestingly, the last few sides to win down there had some excellent spinners, plus John Emburey (!): Swann (2010), Edmonds & Emburey (1986), Underwood & Illingworth (1970) etc.

 

[Swiss.]

Early guess is that the Aussies won't be too troubled in the winter. Unless England's creaking bowlers somehow stay fit, just can't see them taking 20 wickets enough times to be a threat.

Genuine question: you need a wicket-taking spinner in Oz. Who will it be?




 

Have you seen the Aussie batting line up? It's fucking abysmal. The young opener averaged 8, and his partner Khawaja 19. They've got Cameron Green at 3 ffs

They have Smith, who isn't what he was, and Travis Head, who we need to really target. If we can't take 20 wickets against that batting line up, we might as well cancel the tour.

Yeah, the Aussie batting line up looked poor on tour. But the pitches down under will be nothing like the churned up/cracked, inconsistent surfaces that lot faced in the West Indies.

It’ll be the usual Aussie tops that force bowlers to bend their backs a lot more. If England are struggling to get their quicks on the field, and they don’t have a an effective spinner, they could be long days against Smith, Labuschagne etc.

If they can keep Archer, Atkinson and Wood fit, then they have the extra speed they’ll need. Definitely think England’s bowling fitness will determine how competitive we’ll be. And find a fecking spinner!

Carse can bowl it genuinely quick if he wants to. 

[Fauxstralian]

It’s a bit like Australia with Warner before the last Ashes & Khawaja now … it’s too late to change. Unless you take an almighty punt

Crawley is one of the favourites so will continue
Probably the same with Pope
Not sure Smith did himself any favours at the Oval 
Looked average at 7 let alone higher against some great bowling by Siraj
Bethel looked like he would have been at home in the line up of his native 27 all out West Indies

[Eerie Decent]

No Crawley
No Pope at 3 - bat 6/7 and take the gloves, or dropped
Smith up the order

I said that at the start of the series on this very thread, so it's not hindsight. Too late now.

[Fauxstralian]

What is the ‘right batting line up’?

The pitches in Australia have been slightly harder to bat on , probably mainly Melbourne which had been under ICC pressure with bad ratings for dead wickets