Saving Pie and Mash - the Guardian

[wils]

There used to be hundreds of pie and mash shops in London. Now there are barely more than 30. Can social media attention and a push for protected status ensure their survival?

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2026/f ... d-be-saved

[joe royal]

I go to Brook P&M every time i'm home (going friday) and it's pretty good. Double double with tea is about £10

Heath at the Fiddlers is terrible tho. 

[Mike Oxsaw]

Minority cuisine.

Problem is, it's the wrong minority.

[wils]

I was queuing outside Kellys after a home game once and some hipster type birds came up behind me and started peering through the window somewhat bemused at the fayre being served up.

One of them actually thought the liqueur was soup 

 

 

Kelly's is interesting because it is totally encircled by gentrification and immigration. Neither group ventures in there much in my experience. Each group avoids for different reasons. I can understand the immigrants more as its both alien to them and they don't have the xenocentric food fetish that has consumed anglo saxon food culture. But for the gentrifiers it's naked hostility that's the direct opposite to their attitude to the cuisines of other out groups. If it was the exact same food but the cuisine of some subsaharan tribe, they would be buying it by the bucket and wouldn't have a word said against it.

[easthammer]

Pie and Mash is comfort food and not to everyone's taste, perhaps, Including some on here. But that's true of so much fast food on the high street. What they seem to hate is Cockneys and the fact that bigging-up their fare provides no opportunity to signal their xenocentric credentials.



 

 

 

Pie and Mash is more than comfort food. As I hinted at in my post below, its big attraction was its affordability. Add to that it provided undoubted health benefits for those working in manual jobs. Below are a few points from an AI search. 

A Cockney classic, traditional East End pie and mash is a working-class staple that originated in the docks of London during the 19th century. Originally sold by "piemen" from mobile carts, it was a cheap, high-calorie meal for labourers like dockworkers and steelworkers.

Why it was considered healthy
In the 19th century, it was valued as an affordable source of high-energy nutrition needed for heavy manual labour. 

• Wholesome Ingredients: Traditional shops used fresh, handmade ingredients with almost no preservatives or processed additives.
• Protein-Rich: The pies provided essential amino acids, iron, and B vitamins (like B12) from minced beef or steak.
• Nutritional "Liquor": The parsley sauce is packed with antioxidants, Vitamin K (for bone health), and Vitamin C (to boost immunity).
• Eels as "Superfood": Jellied and stewed eels are high in protein, Omega-3 fatty acids, and Vitamin A, making them a dense source of nutrients 

Modern Nutritional Perspective
Today, while it is often healthier than many other fast foods (like fried chicken or burgers), it has some nutritional drawbacks: 
2

• Calorie Content: A standard "one and one" (one pie, one mash) typically contains between 580 and 800 calories, roughly a quarter of a daily recommendation.
• High Fat & Salt: The suet pastry can be high in saturated fats, and the meal as a whole can have significant salt content.
• Carbohydrate-Heavy: The combination of pastry and potato makes it very high in carbohydrates, which was ideal for dockworkers but may be excessive for sedentary lifestyles. 

Comparing it to modern takeaways, these meals have significantly less sugar and processed meat than a typical Big Mac or kebab. 

[Gary Strodders shank]

Let’s be honest, there is so much in terms of variety of food on offer these days that it’s no surprise that pie and mash is dying a death as a culinary option. 




 

It has its place. Walk into any Pie and Mash shop and you’ll find the beany hatted, turn up jeans wearing free Palestine mob eating pie and mash. I’m surprised Rupert or Robin haven’t tried an artisan version. Cunts. 

I was queuing outside Kellys after a home game once and some hipster type birds came up behind me and started peering through the window somewhat bemused at the fayre being served up.

One of them actually thought the liqueur was soup 

[Pub Bigot]

Let’s be honest, there is so much in terms of variety of food on offer these days that it’s no surprise that pie and mash is dying a death as a culinary option. 



 

It has its place. Walk into any Pie and Mash shop and you’ll find the beany hatted, turn up jeans wearing free Palestine mob eating pie and mash. I’m surprised Rupert or Robin haven’t tried an artisan version. Cunts. 

[,]

Let’s be honest, there is so much in terms of variety of food on offer these days that it’s no surprise that pie and mash is dying a death as a culinary option. 

 

[wils]

I just read the comments to the Guardian piece. Fascinating insight into the Guardian liberals ambivalence to native working-class culture. And I am being generous with ambivalence. They rightly aim some criticisms of Pie and Mash but those same criticism can be applied to many foods which they will champion because they the foods of their favoured groups.

Pie and Mash is comfort food and not to everyone's taste, perhaps, Including some on here. But that's true of so much fast food on the high street. What they seem to hate is Cockneys and the fact that bigging-up their fare provides no opportunity to signal their xenocentric credentials.

Just makes me like it even more.

[Pub Bigot]

Going to try BJs in Plaistow next time I’m down. Never had it. 

You've never had a BJ in Plaistow?
You don't know what you're missing mate

On a serious note, where is it located fella?

I see what you did there, very good! 

[MaryMillingtonsGhost]

Barking road but more the Canning town end if I remember rightly.

I went there late afternoon before a night game three or four years back

It was ok but not as good as Kellys Maureen's or EastEnders 

Mash was served up with an ice cream scoop

 

 

Cheers fella, much appreciated.
Have always loved Maureens and haven't been to Eastenders in a fair few years.
Think I'll stick to what I know/like.

[Gary Strodders shank]

Going to try BJs in Plaistow next time I’m down. Never had it. 

You've never had a BJ in Plaistow?
You don't know what you're missing mate

On a serious note, where is it located fella?

Barking road but more the Canning town end if I remember rightly.

I went there late afternoon before a night game three or four years back

It was ok but not as good as Kellys Maureen's or EastEnders 

Mash was served up with an ice cream scoop

[Massive Attack]

Think if I was on death row and had to choose my final meal it would be pie mash and licquor , or maybe something in a slow cooker!

 

Going to try BJs in Plaistow next time I’m down. Never had it. 

Highly recommend with plenty of liquor. 

[MaryMillingtonsGhost]

Going to try BJs in Plaistow next time I’m down. Never had it. 

You've never had a BJ in Plaistow?
You don't know what you're missing mate

On a serious note, where is it located fella?

[Eastside surge]

Think if I was on death row and had to choose my final meal it would be pie mash and licquor , or maybe something in a slow cooker!

Imagine being on death row not knowing your fate but one morning you get a bowl of Cheerios for your breakfast . 

Very good made me chuckle did that 

[Massive Attack]

Being replaced by halal shops in their hundreds. Sad to see their decline.

HAHAHAHAHA! Heard it all now. The decline of pie and mash is down to the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Don't know if you've noticed but pie and mash isn't exactly popular with the white younger generation, either.

One that used to be in the hundreds is dwindling down to about 40 and one that used to be difficult to find once upon a time is now in the hundreds. It's representative of the folk that live there now with a supply and demand for it. It's not rocket really. All about the demographics and not by sheer coincidence.

[Pub Bigot]

Think if I was on death row and had to choose my final meal it would be pie mash and licquor , or maybe something in a slow cooker!

 

Me too, Kelly’s as well. 

Going to try BJs in Plaistow next time I’m down. Never had it. 

[easthammer]

I grew up on Pie & Mash and a lot of other stuff that was cheap back then but which today would probably be sold as exotic high-end fare. For example, brown shrimps which came off the fisherman's van that came round on a Sunday Night. Brown shrimps were cheap compared to prawns and were purchased by the quart. Jellied eels were, of course, also not as expensive or rare to find as they are today. Although they probably varied a bit more in quality, as refrigeration was not so good. The best of course came from Tubby Issacs and family car trips through London would factor this in for the return journey.

Living in East Ham, I was spoilt for choice for Pie & Mash, Moodies by the Town Hall or Cookes on High Street North, the latter being my preference. The big butler sinks out front, reassuringly writhing with fresh eels for the customers to choose for stewing. The juice of which was the main constituent of the liquor. If today you are buying Pie & Mash from a vendor that does not also sell stewed eels, then I would argue you are not getting the real deal. Anyway, in my opinion, Pie & Mash is only half the meal it must have a portion of stewed eels to complete the dish. But to be fair as a kid on a Saturday, funds didn't run to adding eels to my plate. From 2/- pocket money, it was 1/- 3d for Pie & Mash and 9d for Kids in either North or South Bank (no segregation). For those that don't know 2/- = 10p 

[wils]

Being replaced by halal shops in their hundreds. Sad to see their decline.

HAHAHAHAHA! Heard it all now. The decline of pie and mash is down to the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Don't know if you've noticed but pie and mash isn't exactly popular with the white younger generation, either.

The Guardian (a lefty publication) article references the same phenomena:

"There is an idea that pie and mash isn’t really being eclipsed, it’s just migrating to the suburbs, following on the heels of its former clientele – the white working class of the old East End. "

[zebthecat]

Being replaced by halal shops in their hundreds. 

I was once told nearly all the meat slaughtered in this country is halal but onlty a small percentage is actually sold as halal.

No idea if it's correct.

It is and it isn't.
The vast majority uses stun which can also be classed as halal but mostly is not.
Non-stun slaughtering is about 3% of the total. All of that can be classed as Halal and Kosher.

[One Sunny Day]

Being replaced by halal shops in their hundreds. Sad to see their decline.

HAHAHAHAHA! Heard it all now. The decline of pie and mash is down to the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Don't know if you've noticed but pie and mash isn't exactly popular with the white younger generation, either.

[Trilby55]

Think if I was on death row and had to choose my final meal it would be pie mash and licquor , or maybe something in a slow cooker!

Imagine being on death row not knowing your fate but one morning you get a bowl of Cheerios for your breakfast . 

[the coming of gary]

On the programme Q.I. they said Lobsters used to be served to prisoners
.

[El Scorchio]

P&M isn't cheap at all. 

And that is the crux of the issue. A poor man's food which has become expensive.

Similar to most sea food.
It is weird to think that oysters were used to bulk out beef stew as they were cheaper.

And goose was what the poor had at Christmas because they couldn't afford turkey.
Oxtail is now expensive because chefs started using it because it was then cheap. 

[zebthecat]

P&M isn't cheap at all. 

And that is the crux of the issue. A poor man's food which has become expensive.

Similar to most sea food.
It is weird to think that oysters were used to bulk out beef stew as they were cheaper.

[Mad Ferret]

P&M isn't cheap at all. 

And that is the crux of the issue. A poor man's food which has become expensive.