The John Lyall Years - Robert Banks

[swindon hammer]

"Apologies if this has been mentioned before but is anyone watching this series from Robert Banks on YouTube? The latest episode is the start of season 84/85 (My first season following West Ham) where John Lyall almost left to join QPR that summer. Great clips, great music and full of interesting historical Information about West Ham during the Lyall era. Highly recommended. It deserves far more views than it currently gets."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"If you add a Video Download helper to your browser, a button will appear just below the picture and above the comments - click on that and choose the quality you want. It will download in the background after that and while it's doing so, seek out the next episode and repeat. All six should download in about no more than an hour if you run the downloads in parallel. You'll then have all 6 on your computer/phone to watch in any order you choose."

[Lato]

How do you watch this in order? All the episodes come up randomly

[zico]

"I think a few of the players have said that as much as they loved Lyall he maybe put his feet under the table a bit after the board stopped him moving to QPR when they offered him enough to retire on after Terry Venables left. That said he still had that 85/86 season after that happened. I think he was too loyal to even those who left. Letting Goddard go with no replacement for instance was a mistake. It's also interesting that when he came Stewart Robson was Hammer of the Year so the fans appreciated him but the way he played didn't get appreciated by some of the other players. The problem was you need to buy when you are doing well, not when you are struggling. David Kelly was probably 5th or 6th choice and to be fair to him he had a good career elsewhere just not at West Ham. After 85/86 we needed a GK, LB, CB, CM and CF but squads just weren't like that in those days."

[Northern Sold]

Kelly's Stats West Ham - 63 App - 13 Goals Leicester - 75 App - 24 Goals Newcastle -83 App - 39 Goals Wolves - 103 Apps - 36 Goals EIRE - 26 Apps - 9 Goals Shows that there was a player there... and it did seem he did notch a lot playing against us

[cholo]

"Northern Sold I remember the Norwich game, superb atmosphere and lots of hope but frankie didn't get a kick and didn't even look fit. Norwich had a decent team and cruised to a win."

[cholo]

"My take on Kelly is that he was never an out and out goal scorer in the Cottee mould, he played as a deeper forward for Walsall which didn't pit him directly up against much stronger cb's and wasnt quick enough to get away from them unlike TC. He found success and was popular at Leicester and then Newcastle so couldn't have been that bad. Another fuck up by Lyall I'm afraid."

[Northern Sold]

Think it was the Norwich home game that was the return to UP for Macca.... remember loads of singing in boozers beforehand real positive vibe... packed in the North Bank.... and then a real damp squib as they beat us 0-2...

[Northern Sold]

Finished the last part on Saturday... absolute fair play to Mr Banks a real labour of love he's completed there... brought back some memories there... mainly good as it was going to football then the game was still just a part of a day out... the real bad game I remember was that Boro' Bernie Slaven game... I think that was the day when everyone thought... that's it we are gone... Regarding Kelly... was wanted by Bayern Munich the time we signed him?? Yeah he was not the greatest but nowhere near the worst we have had... and if you look at his record he scored goals everywhere... just not as many as he or us would have liked... his best game was probably the 2nd leg of the LC after we got slammed 0-6 at Oldham.... anyway congrats Robert Banks a real superb piece of work.

[twoleftfeet]

"I think the McAvennie signing was to quieten the fans who were starting to get animated. Some of the signings were appalling, David Kelly is up there with Radford & Chapman. To expect a guy who scored 20 odd goals for Walsall to replicate that in division 1 was beyond belief. Allan McKnight was dreadful and we had to rely on an ageing Phil Parkes whose knees were shot. In 86 he should have bought a new goalkeeper, CB, midfielder and CF. Players were past their sell by dates but he kept loyal to them. 85/86 is still my favourite season though, listening to a small radio whilst working Saturday afternoons. Thank you Mr Lyall."

[swindon hammer]

"I remember most things from that season and era even though I was only about 12 years old. Yet if you asked me something that happened 5 years ago I would struggle to remember! Regarding McAvennie, his return wasn’t a success (Although he did score a few when we were in the old second division). When we sold him in October 1987 he had only scored one goal in his last 27 league matches for us and although he scored goals for Celtic that maybe should have been a warning sign that the 85/86 season was as good as it was going to get for Macca in English football."

[Manuel]

"''I didn’t remember Kevin Keen missing a penalty in that game.'' I didn't remember fucking loads of it, my memory is terrible. I do remember the Forest away game though, lovely early summers evening and obviously a huge game so a lot of nerves, but Leroy put us 2 up within 22 mins, very unlike WH. I noticed Frank Mac wasn't playing in the last few games, assume he was injured."

[swindon hammer]

"zico, this was quoted from his book in the last episode on YouTube but Lyall said he never thought he would be sacked although he had heard rumours from the media that he could be offered a role upstairs but that wouldn’t have been something he was interested in. Yeah it’s hard to believe he was only 49. People generally looked older back then and he did smoke like a chimney which wouldn’t have helped."

[cholo]

"Dickens was talented but always gave the impression that he lacked character and killer instinct. He wasn't skillfull enough to get away with not getting stuck in unlike some much more successful players of that era. He'd come off a muddy pitch clean as a whistle and sometimes you'd wonder what he'd been doing all match. Maybe would've done well as a more modern, advanced midfielder rather than in a 442. He scored some lovely goals though, maybe he found it difficult living up to his early promise and all those Brooking comparisons."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"Bought the book when it first came out and a friend of mine offered to take it into the training ground at Chadwell Heath (where he reffed a lot of youth/stiffs games) and get it signed by all the still alive players. Sod's law though, saw him have to give up driving that very same week and thus was unable to get to the training ground again. The book still remains unread and it's now joined by Murray Walkers autobiography on the ""to read"" list. Can't understand it - when I was working I always managed to find the time to set aside a few hours and read. Now the only time I get is if I go to hospital as an out patient and sit there waiting for my number to be called."

[twoleftfeet]

I’m afraid Lyall did in the summer of 86 what Moyes did in January 22 and that was invest in the team. Both thought they had enough with the players they had but both got it wrong. If Lyall had bought 2/3 players in 86 our fortunes might have been different.

[cholo]

"I believe a lot (or at least a crucial few) of that 89 squad were taking the piss. Notice they got themselves up for the evening home Cup matches but in the league were absolutely woeful. Probably thought they were too good to go down until they realised they were well in the shit and suddenly found some form when it was too late. Ironically one of the few that actually gave a shit and left it all in the pitch was Ince who was immense that season considering he was s kid, mightve been why he was so pissed off when we went down and they sacked Lyall but most of the players stayed. Having said all that Lyall himself had to take the responsibility, the buck stops at the manager and its up to him to ferment a winning attitude. As for him moving upstairs, Lyall wrote in his autobiography he was offered an (upstairs) job but wanted to continue as a first team manager so turned it down."

[zico]

"Bloody keyboard! Don't think Dickens was the confident type especially in negotiations. Drives a black cab now I think, how times have changed for footballers! Still to this day think it was bonkers to let Lyall leave the club. Still think either a move upstairs or blood Bonzo or someone next to him was the way forward., Incredible to think that he was only 49 when sacked. 6 years younger than I am now but it seemed he had been there for centuries."

[zico]

"Bloody keyboard! Don't think Dickens was the confident type especially in negotiations. Drives a black cab now I think, how times have changed for footballers! Still to this day think it was bonkers to let Lyall leave the club. Still think either a move upstairs or blood Bonzo or someone next to him was the way forward., Incredible to think that he was only 49 when sacked. 6 years younger than I am now but it seemed he had been there for centuries."

[zico]

Don't think d

[swindon hammer]

Dickens was out of contract and due to Lyall getting sacked he felt like he was in limbo and didn’t know which way to turn. Don’t think he had an agent either. Such a shame his career just petered out while still in his mid 20s.

[gph]

"Pretty sure that Dickens didn't want to go to Chelsea. But they were too stupid to see what massive red light this was. At least when things were the other way around, we only loaned Moses. He couldn't be arsed to prove himself at West Ham, wasn't good enough or wasn't given the chance to do so at Chelsea"

[swindon hammer]

"I wanted to bump up this thread as the last episode of this brilliant series was uploaded to YouTube yesterday. Unfortunately JL’s reign ends in relegation but it does showcase the run which nearly pulled us out of trouble after looking doomed for so long. We won 5 out of the last 7 games including beating Millwall (Their fans interrupted the minutes silence for the Hillsborough Disaster) and winning at Sheffield Wednesday & Forest. Although it was the defeat at Liverpool that confirmed our Relegation, it was the defeat at Everton where we were one nil up a couple of weeks before that really sealed it. I didn’t remember Kevin Keen missing a penalty in that game. A great series and a must for any Hammer that is interested in the good old days before the Premier League."

[Steady]

"David Kelly was pony, I’ve never seen a player go to ground as much as he did"

[swindon hammer]

"Now towards the end of the 86/87 season and not a good period in terms of results. 6 consecutive defeats, out of the FA Cup and home attendance for games has dropped below 16k with one game against Sheffield Wed only having 13k! Cue the arrivals of Liam Brady, Garry Strodder & Tommy McQueen."

[WHU(Exeter)]

"Agree with what a couple of others have said on this thread, the 'I played for John Lyall' book is excellent. Would be in my top 3 West Ham books, if I kept such a list."