‚ö? Aston Villa v West Ham - Official Match Thread

[charleyfarley]

". ........... V Villa Park 22nd Oct 16:30 GMT VAR Chris Kavanagh David Coote (2) - 7 0 Mart??nez, Cash, Konsa, Pau, Digne, Douglas Luiz, Kamara, McGinn ¬©, Zaniolo, Diaby, Watkins Subs: Olsen (GK), Diego Carlos, Chambers, Lenglet, Dendoncker, Tielemans, Kellyman, Bailey, Traor?© Areola, Coufal, Zouma ¬©, Aguerd, Emerson, ?Ålvarez, Souƒçek, Ward-Prowse, Bowen, Paquet?°, Antonio Subs: Fabia?Ñski (GK), Kehrer, Mavropanos, Ogbonna, Fornals, Benrahma, Kudus, Ings, Mubama Aston Villa 10/11: Draw 11/4: West Ham 12/5 ."

[Lee Trundle]

"You might as well dig out Fornals for his performance yesterday while you're at it, bell."

[Side of Ham]

The football we play is perfect for the CEEFAX days…..

[Takashi Miike]

"I know there's already an antonio thread, but he's played almost three times as many minutes as kudus and scored less goals"

[bell]

"Ok, cheers for letting me know."

[Eerie Descent]

"Soucek has been shit for 18 months, Kudus was shit shit for 18 minutes yesterday, in a diabolical 95 minute team performance."

[fraser]

"Wasn't he pushed to the left yesterday as well where he hasn't played. So if everyone played shit and he came into the shit late, why is he not deserving to start based on that? Are those that were shit for longer more deserving then?"

[Eerie Descent]

"Emperor's new clothes? Who's overly bigging him up? You're just being a bit ridiculous, to be honest. I'm all for getting stuck into under performing players, but for fuck sake, you have to give them a chance. If he starts 10 games, and he's pony, fair enough, but a few sub appearances, including one where he came on and changed the game? I didn't think much of Aguerd on initial viewings, but I gave him enough time to make a confident judgement. You're just being stupid."

[Takashi Miike]

"he's averaging a goal a game in the europa league, and has scored a goal playing just 95 minutes in the premier league. what more can he do? ?üòÇ"

[bell]

"So, because he's the emporers new clothes, he can still be criticised. I don't care if you play 90 minutes or 9. And yes, everyone was dogshit yesterday. But let's not pretend the geezers a messiah, on let's be honest, bang average showing so far. Soucek has been scoring goals, if that's your criteria."

[Eerie Descent]

"What do you honestly expect of a player who's had the odd 15 minute cameo, in a team that hardly has the fucking football? He's started in Europe and scored, come on against Newcastle and scored, he was poor yesterday but for fuck sake, the whole team was appalling for the whole game. Surely he's last player to be digging out, fucking hell."

[bell]

"No, but I don't expect him to come on and look scared of going forward. I also don't expect him to play a ball that puts their centre forward in on goal I'm hoping he's a star for us, but he's hardly hit the ground running as he. Sub or not."

[Eerie Descent]

"Kudus has gone from being Ajax's main man, scoring hattricks in Europe nd looking top draw, to signing for West Ham and being stuck on the bench, watching Soucek meander about like Frankenstein on sedatives. Do you really expect him to keep coming 9n for 15 minute cameos and save gaves every week like he did against Newcastle?"

[bell]

"Kudos was dogshit when he came on yesterday. If he's playing for a start, that ain't gonna do it."

[terry-h]

"When Gerrard was Villa’s manager, West Ham were at least as good or better as a squad. Their change of manager and recruitment has them approaching the top six while our ownership and Moyes are more likely to lead to mediocrity. Get used to it cunts."

[Russ of the BML]

"threesixty 1:37 Mon Oct 23 ""Mid table manager vibes. "" Spot on."

[onsideman]

"Haven't read the thread but despite looking like we might threaten in the second half, we never really threatened at all. The reality is that this game, more than any other, proved how desperately bad our recruitment has been. Aguerd and, to a lesser extent, Zouma prove that spending £70m on 2 centre backs guarantees nothing but above everything, we were the team that bought Benrahma when Villa were buying Watkins... for more or less the same money. Anyone who had watched Brentord's Championship play off final defeat would have known unequivocally that theirs was the better decision. Put Watkins in our team in place of Antonio and we win that yesterday"

[Russ of the BML]

"Vexed 11:38 Mon Oct 23 You raise a good point about 'on paper'. We may look better on paper but Villa have a manager that has coached and drilled them to play an attacking and positive style of football. It's a high line that requires energy and discipline and, guess what? They've all bought into it. When you have that, even the most average top level players can look outstanding as they earn and create the space to play in. Anybody can look good when they have space and time on the ball. So what does Moyes do when we play a team that rely on a high energy high press? He just plays the same one up front in Antonio who lumbered about like a fucking League 2 journeyman. When you have a high line you must pull that line back. Get the high line down the field away from your goal. You do that by attacked and beating the press. Yet we are somehow supposed to do that with Antonio and Soucek. No ability and no pace."

[Russ of the BML]

"Vexed 11:38 Mon Oct 23 You raise a good point about 'on paper'. We may look better on paper but Villa have a manager that has coached and drilled them to play an attacking and positive style of football. It's a high line that requires energy and discipline and, guess what? They've all bought into it. When you have that, even the most average top level players can look outstanding as they earn and create the space to play in. Anybody can look good when they have space and time on the ball. So what does Moyes do when we play a team that rely on a high energy high press? He just plays the same one up front in Antonio who lumbered about like a fucking League 2 journeyman. When you have a high line you must pull that line back. Get the high line down the field away from your goal. You do that by attacked and beating the press. Yet we are somehow supposed to do that with Antonio and Soucek. No ability and no pace."

[Vexed]

"Sir Alf 12:33 Mon Oct 23 As usual too long and I couldn't be arsed to read it all but you're fucking mad if you think our team in paper is worse than a team containing the hopeless McGinn. Paqueta, Alverez, Ward Prowse, Kudus, Zouma, Bowen easy walk into their side with zero debate, several others possible. As for getting done for pace - we didn't really we got done tactically because Moyes is so fucking predicable and a whacking hole in the middle of the park. Watkins is overrated, and gets far too many plaudits, but he at least can trap a fucking bag of cement u like Antonio who put in a fucking shameful performance and then got 'protected' at 4-1 down by the idiot Moyes. Not buying a striker and not being prepared to play Kudus instead is another fucking glaring Moyes fuck up that will lead to another chit season and no European football next season. He's a cսnt and I can't wait for him to fuck off."

[threesixty]

"""Villa play the high line and Moyes picks a side that cannot exploit it keeping Kudus on the bench etc."" And thats the whole problem in a nutshell. He didnt pick a team to win. He picked his own team based on some baffling hierarchy of loyalty he has for some players. The man has a squad of players with different attributes to counter the opposition and he doesn't bother with it. When has he ever said, we picked xyz to counter this? Or we picked xyz to specifically deal with another team. This whole old school, this is the 1st 11 crap is so mad. Also, Villa are not massively different squad wise to other seasons. In fact they've lost Mings and some others to injury. Yet when Moyes is in the press conference he's elevated them to some top team that we are lucky to beat.. like wtf? We should back ourselves to beat them. If we dont what's the point? We spend more than them. Paqueta has 42 caps for Brazil and 9 goals, Luis has 9 fucking cap! Yet they have better players than us? No, they have a better manager than us! Moyes is showing mid table manager vibes. Cant see much else."

[Sir Alf]

"Opinions as always but I would suggest our squad and definitely first 11 is not as good technically as Villa. Soucek, Antonio, Coufal and based on yesterday Zouma and Aguerd do not match Villas equivalents. The first 3 above are simply inferior in terms of control, passing and in the case of Soucek and even Coufal lack pace needed. Zouma and Aguerd as a pair look vulnerable to pace and quick feet. Not saying any of the first 3 or 4 players should not be a squad option but not good enough for the first team in the league to start games. Zouma and Aguerd both too easily beaten by pace and quick feet of Watkins and Bailey. Why? Because we were chasing the game and the defensive shield ( low block they now call it ) was not protecting them cutting out the supply to Watkins etc. Then there a the Moyes factor… firstly he picks these players and does not prioritise technical skills or passing and control it seems ? And then his system and tactics of defend deep, compact and narrow with containment and countering and set pieces the only plan to score but giving up possession. Which is why I suppose he doesn’t care that Soucek and Coufal and Antonio cannot pass or control the ball very well. Coufal does work hard and can do a job so a tad harsh on him but we need better especially as he’s vulnerable to pace defensively and imo offers very limited and technically poor attacking options even tho he gets forward well. Crossing was dreadful yesterday although he went alone. Villa play the high line and Moyes picks a side that cannot exploit it keeping Kudus on the bench etc. Then there is the frustration of playing players out of position in that wide left position. Fornals, Benny, Paqueta, now Kudus. And we have a wide left player with some pace who never gets a minute ( Cornet ) perhaps because he was not a Moyes pick like Downes wasn’t so they get passed over and bombed out the club without playing Mid table in the league at best. Everton are a hard working decent side that has struggled to score and the opposite of us according to Opta and are underachieving. Wheels could come off or be put back on this week with the European game on Thurs too. Steidten is key and our best hope to progress further and it will mean getting the aforementioned players replaced / upgraded as first framers and I highly suspect a manager to replace Moyes. Alonso ?"

[w4hammer]

Did you hear the joke about west ham handing a new contract to a player who starts the season on fire... 9 games...two goals...one assist absolute joke of a player...when will we learn

[Vexed]

"Russ of the BML 11:20 Mon Oct 23 I dont think it's unreasonable to expect to get a result when you a red by far the better team on paper. Obviously factoring in the enormous drag factor of Moyes we still should have been in the game. But the cսnt doesn't even try to win games like this against a half decent but far from frightening Villa side. It's embarrassing. He hasn't got a clue what to do when we go a goal down. He's turning Paqueta into whatever the fuck Fornals is now. I fucking hate the cսnt. We'll drop points against Olympiakos too, I can see it a mile off."

[Russ of the BML]

"I cannot believe there was actually supporters that believed we would win this game. This was a home win about as nailed on as night coming after day. And that is Moyes problem. He's got a ceiling. He's so very limited. We've had a half decent start to the season. I think the team have looked solid and balanced and have played some decent stuff, without actually looking amazing. So, as decent as it has been, for me there is so much more this team can achieve. So just when we get to the game that if we win would've put us fifth on 17 points and right in the mix, we turn out that fucking turgid performance. And, once again, we look well short of what is actually required. Relying on a League 2 level striker in Antonio and Soucek lumbering around not achieving much. Defending like children. Whereas Villa look a team in the ascendancy. They look like a team with purpose who are playing with a gameplan and a real intent. God forbid Moyes goes to Villa and plays a front 3 of Antonio, Kudus and Bowen. God forbid we go there and actually try to win the game. Moyes plays percentages, especially away from home. He'll set up not to concede and hope that in the last 20 minutes it's 0-0 or even we are just one down. Sometimes it works but very often it doesn't. And when it doesn't Moyes offers very little in switching it and changing it up. Moyes gives opposing managers very little to worry about above what they already know. His in game influence almost zero. We got 40% possession in this game. Probably as high as we will get under Moyes. But we don't have a quality striker. Compare Watkins to Antonio. Night and day. Embarrassing how far Watkins is ahead of him. But Moyes goes with him because it suits Moyes-ball. We are now mid-table. Where we should be. Moyes will be happy with that because we're not in a relegation fight. As someone said earlier, we have a team of superstars all running about chasing, harrying and defending. Things need to change."

[Vexed]

"We're going to look back at this era and say, why didnt we get a good manager in to get the best out of that excellent squad? Much like the England squad this opportunity to achieve something is being squandered by the fucking idiots picking the team. Neither of them are tactically up to the modern game and yesterday was just embarrassing from Moyes, everything about it was a joke. Why wait until the end of the season? Lose the cսnt now and salvage something out of this season ffs."