HS2 may not run through to central London - report

[Westham67]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64421566 They are making it up as they go along Its not surprising as ground was broken too early just to push to the project through Crossrail on steroids

[Westham67]

I heard Network Rail that's if everything doesn't get nationalised again There is a 2 year defect liability period. Which means the contractor who carried out the original work has an option to come back and fix the defect itself should be to new work standard (Repairing a defect that occurred during construction or installation is not maintenance) or another party is brought in and the original contractor will back changed plus what ever percentage HS2 deem to be appropriate . It gets messy and will end in arbitration for years

[Westham67]

I heard Network Rail that's if everything doesn't get nationalised again There is a 2 year defect liability period. Which means the contractor who carried out the original work has an option to come back and fix the defect itself should be to new work standard (Repairing a defect that occurred during construction or installation is not maintenance) or another party is brought in and the original contractor will back changed plus what ever percentage HS2 deem to be appropriate . It gets messy and will end in arbitration for years

[overbyyer]

"Perhaps then we can be told who will actually own it, once the Quango that is HS2 Ltd hand it over to the French/Chinese/Equity Investor/Bus & train Co operator to rinse more public subsidy and rip-off fares out of us. There's nothing like paying twice for something that you still end up not owning........."

[Westham67]

"The recruiting is all for civil engendering, structures tunnels, viaduct, overbridges that mainly for the West Midlands for the branch from Birmingham to link to the HS2 route to Nottingham I think it will downscaled considerably and dates pushed back I know from information from the company I will be working for that HS2 cannot evaluate anything and not awarding any contracts until June 23 the earliest, For a company managing a project that's shocking"

[BRANDED]

"Manchester has been transformed from a shit backwater to an international city with culture, business and sport. The decision to move the BBC there has utterly transformed it with its two world class football clubs. Outside London no other place in the UK comes close to it. I remember Manchester well before this transformation. It was one of the worst shot holes in the UK."

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

"There seems to be great enthusiasm in high places and the media for HS2 non-stop to Manchester and ignoring everything in between except for the token shit-hole that is Birmingham. I don't suppose this could be connected in any way to the mass re--location of the BBC from London to the land of the nasal. Manchester prices are now little different to London, to the understandable horror of the locals. HS2 will be great for an expenses-paid jaunt back down to the real world of friends and relatives - Islington, Camden, Clapham and the like. You know the places. For the remaining 68m of us, not so much. As someone else said, the world has changed. Zoom and the like coupled with widespread working from home makes business travel much less imperative. But the world hasn't changed so much as to make redundant the old Chinese proverb - 'and when you have saved the 15 minutes travelling time in each direction, what are you going to do with them?'"

[wansteadman]

When HS2 was being discussed I asked 5 people on my desk what the train time to Birmingham was. I ranged from 55 minutes to 2 hours 15 minutes. So at the time I was thinking knocking 15 minutes off the journey won't be that enticing

[Mike Oxsaw]

"overbyyer 2:55 Mon Jan 30 But you said it would be added to the other 12 departures. I was taught that 12+1 was always 13 so there's a train ""missing"". In any case, with the current infrastructure 14 inbound and 14 outbound at Euston would be physically impossible unless they all run empty. As an aside, this is just another example of the government promoting bullshit as information in order to relieve the taxpayers of their hard earned and give it, instead, to ""more deserving"" people and institutions. The figures never did stack up, yet questioning them seems to have been strongly discouraged."

[Westham67]

"You cannot run freight and HS trains on the same railway thats why HS1 isn't HS , 250 khp or roughly 177mph is. The track standard in UK only go to 200 kph (Dont rush to wiki as wiki is wrong) The rate of changes are too big on a HS railway for a freight trains speed The track geometry standards for HS2 should be different to those used now in the UK. IF the line is HS Its a more than a shambles HS2 are like lambs to the slaughter they are dealing with global construction entities with professional and experienced QSs all out to make money Nothing North of Birmingham was practical twice amount in length of track as London to Birmingham and London and multiple stations The trans(LGBT) Pennine railway is being renewed"

[RBshorty]

Moving freight up/down the West Coast Mainline isn't the problem. The issue is moving it across London. There can only fit so many trains during the day. And have to wait. Or work around any maintenance work at night. They can build as many lines as they want going North. It still will bottleneck at Willesden .!

[overbyyer]

"Mike Oxsaw wrote... Replying... Logged in as overbyyer Football Forum Ticket Forum Off-Topic The title of your post: Re: HS2 may not run through to central London - report Your message: Mike Oxsaw wrote... Mike Oxsaw wrote... For an arrival/departure every 4-5 minutes, you'd need at least 3-4 platforms for every train with that turn-around rate. That's 42-56 platforms. How many are planned for Euston? No it wouldn't, where else in the world has a station with 56 platforms? Euston elrwady has 16 and has/had a train arrive/depart every 10 minutes."

[overbyyer]

"Chigwell Freight movements at night makes sense, but it's also because there's isn't (or wasn't up until Covid) enough capacity during the day, certainly on the West Coast Mainline. Having to wait to move freight until until a night slot is available is surely not a preferred option? 14 years on from its launch, I can't see HS2 running passenger only express trains 14 times an hour with no intermediate stops."

[overbyyer]

"Mike Oxsaw wrote... Re: HS2 may not run through to central London - report overbyyer 11:58 Mon Jan 30 What does the 14th train do, then? Are you being serious? It departs in a sequence after the 13 previous trains, potentially with 13 x 4 minutes in between."

[Chigwell]

"BRANDED: the case for HS2, as put by the government, never specified increased freight capacity. The publication you linked to was not one produced by HS2, but by a freight lobby group. There is no freight provision at all on HS2 as currently planned. The argument that HS2 will relieve the existing network, making more room for freight, does not take into account (1) that most freight moves at night when passenger services are very limited anyway, and (2) that relieving the existing network is meant to allow better passenger services on those lines, not to add to them the complication of daytime freight trains."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"overbyyer 11:58 Mon Jan 30 What does the 14th train do, then? And what about track junction occupancy on the station approaches as an inbound train waits for a vacant platform, but can't get one because it's blocking the train already in the required platform from leaving. As it's waiting, the one following it also has to wait, and so on back down the line. Would have made far more sense to have kept going through London (Euston), out the south side and looped the service at somewhere like Brighton. If you've ever used Eurostar at St Pancras (or Waterloo, before that), you'll appreciate it takes ever a fit, healthy, luggage-free passenger about 4-5 minutes to walk from the gate to the front of the train (and an equal time from the same part of the train once it's arrived) - that's one of the 14 trains stuck in the platform for 8 - 10 minutes even before taking into account those with luggage or a young family with seats in that part of the train. For an arrival/departure every 4-5 minutes, you'd need at least 3-4 platforms for every train with that turn-around rate. That's 42-56 platforms. How many are planned for Euston?"

[BRANDED]

One of the biggest cases for HS2 was increasing freight capacity. https://logistics.org.uk/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=26280145-1894-452e-8f18-7193fc0a5646&lang=en-GB It remains an important factor in its long term contribution to UK transport.

[overbyyer]

"The same train won't leave every four minutes, it will be sequenced with the 12 departures ! Anything called 'public transport' will need to be subsidised - thats the only way to make it fully accessible and heavily used, but that fundamental point disappeared with privatisation....."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"14 trains an hour each way? That would mean a train arrives/leaves Euston about every 4 minutes. Not sure it's physically possible to detrain clean, service, load and dispatch a 12 car train that quickly - even with the required number of platforms."

[Chigwell]

"HS2 Ltd has consistently refused to publish what the fares on HS2 are likely to be. Can you imagine a Dragons' Den pitch in which the pitcher refuses to state a proposed product's retail price? The reason of course is that fares which travellers are prepared to cough up would never be enough to repay the capital cost of HS2, let alone the interest payments and operating/maintenance expenses. Fares will have to be subsidised indefinitely from taxation, and for what? Fewer and fewer people will commute long distance to their jobs, business meetings, etc., as technology replaces the time and inconvenience of travel. Leisure travellers will in no way fill the proposed 14 trains each way per hour on which the original costings were based."

[nychammer]

Waste of money - upgrade existing lines. Birmingham and London are NOT that far apart. Here in NYC the MTA have spent Billions of dollars and wasted years on creating a spur of the Long Island Railroad that now arrives in Grand Central Station in addition to the main terminus of Penn Station. They are 15 minutes walk apart FFS. Pointless white elephant when you consider they cant even run a regular subway service properly.

[DaveT]

"Anders, Sorry but that is bollocks. There are no planned stops between Birmingham and London. I'm from Leamington and when going back recently the countryside is a mess and I don't recognise loads of it as HS2 cuts right through the area. Anyone from Leamington, Coventry area would have to get to Birmingham and then get the HS2 down to London. Journey time would be way longer than it is now. Absolute waste of money and can see it only being used for freight. They should just upgrade the existing lines"

[overbyyer]

"Anders The demand for rail improvement is between Northern regions, the original aim for HS2 was express business travellers from the North, direct to London. That need has gone forever. Meanwhile, there are new towns being developed along the proposed route that will all need railway access. That's why they are relaying the old Oxford to Cambridge Varsity line. HS2 will be built, but it won't exclusive non stop as originally planned."

[overbyyer]

"Anders The demand for rail improvement is between Northern regions, the original aim for HS2 was express business travellers from the North, direct to London. That need has gone forever. Meanwhile, there are new towns being developed along the proposed route that will all need railway access. That's why they are relaying the old Oxford to Cambridge Varsity line. HS2 will be built, but it won't exclusive non stop as originally planned."

[RBshorty]

Demand is there. Unfortunately I don’t think the money is.

[Anders]

"Dm once the Manchester leg opens, and given how popular that will become, I expect the rest of the Y leg to Leeds will be built. The demand is there."