Fights that would have had a different outcome if both fighters were in their prime.
I’ll go Hagler v Leonard and Tyson v Hollyfield.
Who you got?
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:37
by Takashi Miike
no one would ever have easily beat calzaghe. people forgot joe was also well past his prime, with fucked hands
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:31
by Eerie Decent
A four weight World Champion, long time no.1 P4P when active, had a glass jaw, and wasn't as good as he thought he was.
Interesting take.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:29
by Massive Attack
It'll be interesting when Usyk finally bows out. Another impressive undefeated long career and at 38yo still wants to have 2 or 3 more fights. He could be another that bows out unblemished and go down as a great of Boxing with all his achievements. Could be Wardley next if he manages to connect with Parker with his devastating power..
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:23
by Lee Trundle
RJJ went on for WAY too long and ruined what was a very decent record, losing to Maccarinelli for example.
Prime RJJ probably easily beats a prime Calzaghe, but for me the better fighter/boxer knows when to leave the sport even if they're on top.
That's why I really rate the likes of Calzaghe, and Lennox Lewis. Possibly higher than they should be.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:20
by Massive Attack
He was also a classless twat who could have done some serious damage to Griffin with his totally unnecessary followed up when he went down on 1 knee that led to his disqualification against him and his 1st ever loss.
He was good but he weren't anywhere near as good as he thought he was as you rightly point out regarding the two losses to Tarver eitherside of his Johnson knockout. Geezer had a glass jaw if you could get to him.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 08:11
by Eerie Decent
You've picked out a fight when he was past his best after moving up the weights ffs
He should have retired after the 1st Tarver fight, but anyway, I'm not gonna spend the day debating how good RJJ was, if you don't know, you don't know.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 07:57
by Massive Attack
Eerie Decent" wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025, 07:43
Go and watch some footage of him in his prime.
Calzaghe was a fantastic fighter, but fought his best 2 opponents when they were well past their best. His best wins against fighters in their prime were Lacy & Kessler, not taking anything away from him, but RJJ was one of the the best all time pound for pound fighters, he just wasn't the same once he moved up to the big weights later on.
Calzaghe spent his whole career at Super Middle, only fought twice at a different weight, both in those last 2 fights, got put down in both, and the Hopkins fight (who was 43 at the time) was a close call, watch it again. But he certainly was a great fighter, no doubt.
I've followed his fights ever since he deservedly beat Eubank in 97 and been thoroughly impressed with him ever since. Roy Jones fumbled his record with getting sparked out by Glen Johnson (we should never have sold him to Liverpool!). Steve Collins even bottled fighting Calzaghe in the end even though Calzaghe was keen for it to happen.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 07:43
by Eerie Decent
Go and watch some footage of him in his prime.
Calzaghe was a fantastic fighter, but fought his best 2 opponents when they were well past their best. His best wins against fighters in their prime were Lacy & Kessler, not taking anything away from him, but RJJ was one of the the best all time pound for pound fighters, he just wasn't the same once he moved up to the big weights later on.
Calzaghe spent his whole career at Super Middle, only fought twice at a different weight, both in those last 2 fights, got put down in both, and the Hopkins fight (who was 43 at the time) was a close call, watch it again. But he certainly was a great fighter, no doubt.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 15 Oct 2025, 03:02
by Massive Attack
Eerie Decent" wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025, 21:30
Prime Roy Jones Jnr beats any version of Calzaghe, for me.
My personal favourite fighter to watch, should've retired after the 1st Tarver fight.
Not for me. I like Roy Jones but Calzaghe would have still done him at any time only 3 years younger himself when he did Jones in his backyard at Madison Square. His undefeated record beating him whilst retiring at the top is an amazing career that very few can match.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 21:47
by zebthecat
MaryMillingtonsGhost wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025, 21:39
No mention of Herol Graham on this thread?
Surprised.
I like CS's opinion of boxers, knows what he's talking about, subjective or not.
What's your opinion of him fella? VERY unlucky to be caught by THAT puch from Jackson.
That was an absolute killer.
All he had to do was see the round and the ref was going to stop Jackson.
What a punch.
I liked Kirkand Laing but was his own worst enemy. He dominated Coiln Jones twice and punched him on the nuts and made him angry.
Beating Roberto Duran against massive odds and then going on a year long bender was peak Laing.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 21:39
by MaryMillingtonsGhost
No mention of Herol Graham on this thread?
Surprised.
I like CS's opinion of boxers, knows what he's talking about, subjective or not.
What's your opinion of him fella? VERY unlucky to be caught by THAT puch from Jackson.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 21:30
by Eerie Decent
Prime Roy Jones Jnr beats any version of Calzaghe, for me.
My personal favourite fighter to watch, should've retired after the 1st Tarver fight.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 20:46
by Nutsin
Takashi Miike" wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025, 17:25
hard to pick best lists because styles appeal to different people. I hated watching mayweather, but millions loved his evasive style. if I had to name fighters I loved watching, my top five would be calzaghe, hagler, hearns, benn, mccallum.
but also loved usyk, mugabe, golovkin, carl thompson, azumah nelson, mcguigan, andries, roldan
I agree I never enjoyed Mayweathers fights either.
Benn, Hearns, Hagler, Tyson and Gatti fights were always entertaining. Also some of the Mexican fighters were warriors, Marquez, Morales, Costillo all put on a show. The Costillo v Coralles fight was one to remember.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 18:27
by Takashi Miike
haha, he made one of the funniest ringwalks ever when he went to the ring on a magic carpet
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 18:03
by Far Cough UKunt
Didn't see this bloke in his prime but that Prince Naseem, was a massive helmet wasn't he?
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 17:25
by Takashi Miike
hard to pick best lists because styles appeal to different people. I hated watching mayweather, but millions loved his evasive style. if I had to name fighters I loved watching, my top five would be calzaghe, hagler, hearns, benn, mccallum.
but also loved usyk, mugabe, golovkin, carl thompson, azumah nelson, mcguigan, andries, roldan
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 17:25
by Lee Trundle
Far Cough UKunt" wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025, 15:42
I remember when Patrick Vieira spat at Ruddock and he said it reeked of garlic.*
Wrong Ruddock?*
By the way Hagler is the best ever fighter for me apart from Muhammad that is.
I'll have to correct you there, only because what I think he said was funnier.
After asking if Viera had hit him after he flobbed at him, Ruddock's reply (I thought) was "No, but it was close enough to smell the garlic".
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 17:18
by ,
BTW, the best British boxer in my time, for me, has to be Ken Buchanan. An absolute pleasure to watch on his day.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 16:44
by Far Cough UKunt
Randy Turpin beat the legend that was Sugar Ray but lost in the rematch. Another boxer that beat Sugar Ray was Terry Downes but Sugar Ray was on his way out by then, as Downes said he beat the ghost of Sugar Ray Robinson
Wally Downes is related to Terry Downes.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 16:32
by ,
My earliest memory of boxing is listening with my Dad and Grandad to the world title bout between Turpin and Sugar Ray at Earls Court back in 1951. Since then I have had many boxing heroes, not all of them were serial winners, but right now I cannot think of ever holding anyone at a greater level of esteem than I have for Usyk.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 15:42
by Far Cough UKunt
I remember when Patrick Vieira spat at Ruddock and he said it reeked of garlic.*
Wrong Ruddock?*
By the way Hagler is the best ever fighter for me apart from Muhammad that is.
Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.
Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else.
I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime.
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.
A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.
Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.
Ruddock was just an average heavy, who were his best wins against? A washed up Bonecrusher?
A prime Duran also lost to Leonard, as Leonard fought the right fight in the rematch, the sign of a great champion.
earns didn't beat Leonard, he got stopped. Probably best you know about the subject matter if you are going to make claims on it.
I loved Hagler, for me the greatest middle of all time, but he fought Duran, Leonard and Hearns at his weight, not theirs.
I disagree with you about Ruddock, he could fight and he could hit.
I think you’ll find Hearns fought Leonard twice, First fight Leonard caught him late on after Hearns was putting on a show and was ahead on points on all 3 judges scorecards, the second fight Hearns put Leonard on the canvas 3 times and they called it a draw. A complete travesty of a decision. Even Leonard admitted later on that “Tommy won that fight.”
As for Hagler fighting at middleweight, everyone knows it’s easier for a fighter to go up in weight than it is for a fighter to go down in weight for a fight. Leonard even said he decided to fight Hagler as he had slowed down and wasn’t as quick as he used to to be.
As for Hagler v Leonard there are plenty of fight fans who think Hagler won that fight but as per the decision went Leonard’s way in Vegas.
southbankbornnbred wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025, 14:16
I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.
He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.
Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.
Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.
Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.
Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else.
I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime.
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.
A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.
Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.
Ruddock was just an average heavy, who were his best wins against? A washed up Bonecrusher?
A prime Duran also lost to Leonard, as Leonard fought the right fight in the rematch, the sign of a great champion.
earns didn't beat Leonard, he got stopped. Probably best you know about the subject matter if you are going to make claims on it.
I loved Hagler, for me the greatest middle of all time, but he fought Duran, Leonard and Hearns at his weight, not theirs.
Re: Boxing
Posted: 14 Oct 2025, 08:30
by zico
Would a prime Ali have beaten Holmes? In fact a prime Holmes against Lewis would have been interesting.
Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought.
Sorry fella but I'm not entirely sure that someone that fought at welterweight can be accused of ducking someone who fought at middleweight.
Yeah, perhaps he chose the right time to fight Hagler, but certainly wasn't any 'ducking' taking place, unless Hagler didn't fancy dropping a fair-few pounds and moving down a few weight classes when Leonard was in HIS prime?
