Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[Eerie Descent]

"""We won't know for sure until we give it a go"" We have given it a go, in Europe, and although it's weaker opposition, Downes has been MOTM (or a contender) each and every time. Someone mentioned it before, but the Soucek situation is the same as Pellegrini with Roberto, it's so plainly obvious how bad both players were/are, to persist with them is utter madness."

[Lee Trundle]

"We've been linked to WBA's manager in the press today. No idea if he's any good or not, but at 39 years old, he certainly won't be a dinosaur/yesterday's man."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Getting very frustrated at the failure to try Downes in that deep, passing role in the Premiership. We won't know for sure until we give it a go (and Paqueta playing in a deeper role is of course an option), but negating opponents' high press by actually being able to pass through it - in ways that Soucek cannot - IS the key development that must follow. All of these issues in midfield are why we have wasted, or are wasting, Paqueta, Downes, Vlasic and Lanzini. Frankly, none of them are 'Moyes players'. And that is his problem, not West Ham's."

[Sir Alf]

"Yep Mike that's the frustration. Moyes must have a huge ego that is very fragile. His comments about Soucek this week and how he wants to get him back scoring despite not seeing that he will miss 9 out of 10 chances due to lack of technique. So nothing is going to change. Soucek is the latest tried in the more advanced midfield role but his lack of pace and technique will mean it unlikely to make any difference. In a midfield 3 Soucek is like having a man short. He will run all day but always a half yard behind the ball and thus unable to press effectively. And he will be caught in possession more in the advanced role. It's as if Moyes has been asleep for the last 5 or so years? Has he not seen that pace, movement and good control / passing from every player is now critical. Not size and physicality and aerial prowess alone. You can have one or two less cultured players but we have Antonio, Soucek, Dawson, Coufal and age/pace problems with Cresswell and Oggy and questions technically speaking with Johnson. As mentioned, you do need some physicality at the back and thru the team but those players nowadays need to pass well. Moyes plays 3, 4 or 5 every game who cannot pass/control well enough or lack speed and movement. Quite simply, if you want to keep the ball and open teams with quick, crisp one or two touch play, you need pace, movement and players who can, and are coached, to do it. Moyes or Nevins version is a slow, low tempo build up and half the team still keeping the shape, sitting deep as he fears the counter because he picks old, slow players who cannot trap a bag of cement"

[Russ of the BML]

"Takashi Miike 11:19 Wed Jan 11 Exactly. That's what he does. He likes the hussle and bussle part of the game. He likes tracking and closing down and getting about the pitch to get his foot in. And when he gets the ball in tight areas he is outstanding. Yet, because Moyes was nothing to do with his transfer, Moyes picks Soucek how now lumbers about and isn't mobile enough so he gets by-passed and is late with tackles. He doesn't carry the ball through the lines and cannot pick a pass through the lines.... But he's strong and good in the air. Tells you everything you need to know about Moyes out-dated methods."

[Takashi Miike]

"the thing about downes is he enjoys that role, isn't bothered about having his share of attacking runs (like rice) and is very selfless. only a stubborn prick with an agenda would starve the team of such a player, but that's what that dinosaur cսnt does. if he doesn't like you, you'll have no chance"

[Russ of the BML]

"And the worst thing is about it is that Downes is a very good signing. Exactly what we needed. A player with mobility and energy who has a good eye to pick a pass through the lines. Exactly what he did at Swansea which gained him the best stats of any DM in British football last season. If he was dogshit and not what we needed then you'd side with Moyes and call this as being a carve up. But he's decent, ideal for the PL and a better player than Soucek. Yet Moyes won't pick him. Just another reason why Moyes stubborn and antiquated methods are going to take us down."

[Russ of the BML]

"And that was one of the reasons why Warburton was brought in because of his close links to that agency and us getting the jump on alot of their clients. That's why the rumours that Moyes wasn't happy with the Downes deal are very strong and have substance. He wasn't involved. He came in and Downes came to us. Moyes had no say as Sulli, Warburton and his daughter brokered the move."

[Russ of the BML]

"wansteadman 6:01 Tue Jan 10 Flynn Downes is represented by the Wasserman Agency. Warburton's daughter is the client liaison manager at Wasserman. So I bet you that Mark Warburton does know Flynn Downes dad, although it may be they aren't friends or close. But the link is very obvious."

[Westham67]

Vlasic 17 games 4 goals 2 assists

[Sir Alf]

"It seems the link between Downes and Warbarton is via agents although Moyes was saying at the time he signs off on all incomings and outgoings. Regardless, Moyes won't play him. Its typical of these outdated managers or managers that you play for at all levels where it's always easier to leave the younger bloke out because he's ""one for the future"" and more difficult to leave a player out who is a senior and / or an international and especially if they have a moan or make it known they are not happy. In other words, easier to use age advantage to bully the younger bloke. All speculation of course. Perhaps Soucek has the feet and control and movement of a young Michael Flatly in training and is knock ""worldies"" in ? But on match days he somehow plays like he's got a piano on his back and wearing divers boots? It's bizarre, that in the Premiership, Downes has not been given a chance other than wide right and attacking midfield where he has never played before? Perhaps Soucek and Cresswell have pics of Davey boy over at some dogging site in Epping Forest?"

[wansteadman]

Warburton doesn't know downes father and has never met Sullivan

[Sir Alf]

"Willtell 12:44 Tue Jan 10 Totally agree. I think Moyes is and will continue to ""cut his nose to spite his face""ù by not selecting players he was probably not involved with the purchase of which we are led to believe includes Benny and Downes. Funny that these ones he has allegedly not picked are some of the better ones this season :-). Well too early to say with Downes as he's not been selected for his correct position but I wager he is going to be a very good player for us or some other team if Moyes remains at the helm"

[diehardhammer]

"PwoperNaughtyButNot 2:36 Mon Jan 9 That is the ideal scenario for me I think wolves will do us anyway, they looked decent against Liverpool"

[Willtell]

"There are lots of reasons for wanting moyes gone but one of the things that really irks me is the Soucek and Downes and Benrahma situations. Only a bad manager would constantly select and praise his favourite Soucek, when in reality, he has turned to consistently being shit. Compare that to Downes and Benrahma. Downes constantly gets ignored for first choice in spite of turning in some MOM performances. He must wonder what the fuck he has to do. Benrahma can only ever be criticised even when he is consistently close to being our leading scorer and chance creator. Yet here we are still waiting for Soucek to perform like Moyes' old favourite Fellaini..."

[Russ of the BML]

"Why can't Moyes just treat them like adults and say to Rice, Paqueta and Downes you play as a triangle. And you decide who sits and who goes. Give them some responsibility. It's very much a basketball formation. And the best NBA coaches let the players work it out for themselves based on how the game is panning out."

[Takashi Miike]

he won't play downes in his natural position in the PL because he knows he will never ever be able to go back to soucek. so instead he's been used wide right against at anfield and as an attacking midfielder against numerous other teams. hahahaha

[Sir Alf]

"""As per another thread""ù Fool I am!! This thread :-)"

[Sir Alf]

"Correct 67 But as per another thread, there is a rumour that Warbarton alerted Sullivan and/or Newman about Downes and advised him to take a look and/or purchase the lad. Which has supposedly ( speculation ) led to Moyes being very reluctant to pick him or give him a chance over Soucek or ""his""ù players? Not sure, like I say, if it's the normal speculation but I guess could explain the baffling ""blindness""ù Moyes has with regards to Downes. Not dissimilar to the treatment of Benrahma also rumoured to have been a Sullivan pick not one of Moyes's"

[Westham67]

Moyes says he is trying to get Soucek to get forward and score whilst Rice and Paqueta sit. Which hasn't worked looking at the gaping holes we had in midfield playing Brentford B

[Sir Alf]

"Russ of the BML 3:01 Mon Jan Ahh that now explains. Moyes is very insecure and controlling it sounds like?. It just didn't make sense after seeing Downes perform well in DM role in the conference games but literally not given more than 20 mins in the role in the Premier League. Oh well, I guess Downes will have to wait until Moyes gets the boot or Soucek gets an injury to get a starting birth It will cost him his"

[claypole]

I see that in the 2021/22 season Fornals and Lanzini were in the top 5 for presses per 90 mins. Might explain why they are struggling to get into the team

[SullyHammer]

"No way are Chelsea losing to Fulham. And I can bet your bottom Dollar if Potter gets sacked alongside with Moyes and Lampard, Everton will be Potter's choice as our board will give it to the assistant manager."

[Russ of the BML]

"Sir Alf 1:59 Mon Jan 9 Mate, its plain as day. Except for Moyes. Rumour has it that Downes came recommended by Warburton who is pal's with his dad. Sulli got the nod by Warburton and went and got hi, Moyes was apparently put out as he was under-mined. That's what I heard from someone close to the club. And it does seem to have substance. It's also reason why Moyes has a hard-on for Benrahma, who apparently was also bought without Moyes requesting the purchase. Moyes is blind and stubborn so won't see the obvious like Fornals and Fabianski and he won't budge."

[Russ of the BML]

"onsideman 1:49 Mon Jan 9 Well, if you want to be picky, I suppose I should've said ""good enough"" in the air. But the point stands. Our midfielders can handle aerial stuff without the need for Soucek to be playing because, right now, Soucek offers nothing except height."