Boxing

[Nutsin]

Fights that would have had a different outcome if both fighters were in their prime.

I’ll go Hagler v Leonard and Tyson v Hollyfield.

Who you got?

[Takashi Miike]

haha, he made one of the funniest ringwalks ever when he went to the ring on a magic carpet

[Far Cough UKunt]

Didn't see this bloke in his prime but that Prince Naseem, was a massive helmet wasn't he?

[Takashi Miike]

hard to pick best lists because styles appeal to different people. I hated watching mayweather, but millions loved his evasive style. if I had to name fighters I loved watching, my top five would be calzaghe, hagler, hearns, benn, mccallum.

but also loved usyk, mugabe, golovkin, carl thompson, azumah nelson, mcguigan, andries, roldan

[Lee Trundle]

I remember when Patrick Vieira spat at Ruddock and he said it reeked of garlic.*

Wrong Ruddock?*

By the way Hagler is the best ever fighter for me apart from Muhammad that is.


 

I'll have to correct you there, only because what I think he said was funnier.

After asking if Viera had hit him after he flobbed at him, Ruddock's reply (I thought) was "No, but it was close enough to smell the garlic".

[,]

BTW, the best British boxer in my time, for me, has to be Ken Buchanan. An absolute pleasure to watch on his day.

[Far Cough UKunt]

Randy Turpin beat the legend that was Sugar Ray but lost in the rematch. Another boxer that beat Sugar Ray was Terry Downes but Sugar Ray was on his way out by then, as Downes said he beat the ghost of Sugar Ray Robinson

Wally Downes is related to Terry Downes.

[,]

My earliest memory of boxing is listening with my Dad and Grandad to the world title bout between Turpin and Sugar Ray at Earls Court back in 1951. Since then I have had many boxing heroes, not all of them were serial winners, but right now I cannot think of ever holding anyone at a greater level of esteem than I have for Usyk.

[Far Cough UKunt]

I remember when Patrick Vieira spat at Ruddock and he said it reeked of garlic.*

Wrong Ruddock?*

By the way Hagler is the best ever fighter for me apart from Muhammad that is.

 

[Nutsin]

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

 

I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime. 
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.

A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.

Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.

 

Ruddock was just an average heavy, who were his best wins against? A washed up Bonecrusher? 

A prime Duran also lost to Leonard, as Leonard fought the right fight in the rematch, the sign of a great champion.

earns didn't beat Leonard, he got stopped. Probably best you know about the subject matter if you are going to make claims on it. 

I loved Hagler, for me the greatest middle of all time, but he fought Duran, Leonard and Hearns at his weight, not theirs. 

I disagree with you about Ruddock, he could fight and he could hit.

I think you’ll find Hearns fought Leonard twice, First fight Leonard caught him late on after Hearns was putting on a show and was ahead on points on all 3 judges scorecards, the second fight Hearns put Leonard on the canvas 3 times and they called it a draw. A complete travesty of a decision. Even Leonard admitted later on that “Tommy won that fight.” 

As for Hagler fighting at middleweight, everyone knows it’s easier for a fighter to go up in weight than it is for a fighter to go down in weight for a fight. Leonard even said he decided to fight Hagler as he had slowed down and wasn’t as quick as he used to to be. 

As for Hagler v Leonard there are plenty of fight fans who think Hagler won that fight but as per the decision went Leonard’s way in Vegas. 

[Council Scum]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

 

I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime. 
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.

A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.

Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.

 

 

Ruddock was just an average heavy, who were his best wins against? A washed up Bonecrusher? 

A prime Duran also lost to Leonard, as Leonard fought the right fight in the rematch, the sign of a great champion.

earns didn't beat Leonard, he got stopped. Probably best you know about the subject matter if you are going to make claims on it. 

I loved Hagler, for me the greatest middle of all time, but he fought Duran, Leonard and Hearns at his weight, not theirs. 

[zico]

Would a prime Ali have beaten Holmes? In fact a prime Holmes against Lewis would have been interesting.

[MaryMillingtonsGhost]

Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought.

Sorry fella but I'm not entirely sure that someone that fought at welterweight can be accused of ducking someone who fought at middleweight.
Yeah, perhaps he chose the right time to fight Hagler, but certainly wasn't any 'ducking' taking place, unless Hagler didn't fancy dropping a fair-few pounds and moving down a few weight classes when Leonard was in HIS prime?

[southbankbornnbred]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

 

I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime. 
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.

A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.

Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.

Good point - forgot about Ruddock. Although he had some big flaws, too.

[southbankbornnbred]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

Yeah, I think that’s probably a fair assessment, CS.

[Nutsin]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

 

 

I think Razor Ruddock was the best fighter Tyson faced when he was in his prime. 
Holyfield did too many Roids but I will give him his respect he had heart and a great chin, his fights with Bowe were some of the most brutal rounds of boxing I’ve seen.

A prime Duran beat up a prime Leonard as Did Tommy Hearns.

Leonard ducked Hagler for years before they fought. Haglers fights with Hearns and Mugabi prove to me he was the best of the four kings.

[zebthecat]

The frist tine I remember Tyson looking vulnerable was when Frank Bruno wobbled him badly.
Sadly Big Frank was not a good enough boxer to follow that up but it did show that Tyson could be hurt.

[Council Scum]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

Smith and Tucker were his two best wins and he struggled with both, they aren't even in a top 100 of heavies.

Tyson was exciting, but ultimately badly exposed. Once people realised if you weren't intimidated, he didn't have anything else. 

[southbankbornnbred]

I was shit, btw!

[southbankbornnbred]

I do think Tyson’s record and reputation is talked-up a little. But he did beat some decent heavyweights.

He beat Holmes convincingly, albeit a long-retired version of Larry Holmes. But he also beat Tucker (previously undefeated) and Bonecrusher Smith, both of whom were canny, tough fuckers who knew their way around the ring.

Do agree that he made a slightly inflated reputation out of battering average champions (by historical standards) in the 80s. But it was enjoyable and exciting to watch! He cleaned up the division and brought audiences back. For a few years, at least.

Did some sparring for a few years in my 20s and 30s (mostly kickboxing, bit of boxing), and have huge respect for anybody who climbs into a ring. Your soul is fucking exposed in there.

[Massive Attack]

Tyson wouldn't stand a chance with Usyk. Wouldn't be able to catch him with his footwork.

[Swiss.]

Prime Tyson is a myth for Fanboys only. Tyson was a bully, Holyfield was one of the hardest men to ever put on a pair of gloves. 

Leonard beats any version of Hagler, Christ Leonard had fought once in 5 years and Hagler hadn't lost in 11 years, if anyone wasn't in their prime its Leonard.

Holmes destroys Tyson in his prime if you want a proper example. 

SRL best pound for pound boxer for me. Tyson was a brawler. Put him in the ring with a technically better boxer with a decent chin i.e, Holyfield and he was out classed,

[Massive Attack]

He got beat up by Buster Douglas and couldn't hold a candle to either Holyfield or Lewis.

[Council Scum]

Prime Tyson is a myth for Fanboys only. Tyson was a bully, Holyfield was one of the hardest men to ever put on a pair of gloves. 

Leonard beats any version of Hagler, Christ Leonard had fought once in 5 years and Hagler hadn't lost in 11 years, if anyone wasn't in their prime its Leonard.

Holmes destroys Tyson in his prime if you want a proper example. 

incredibly unfair in Tyson IMO, he was technically great too, especially defensively, he destroyed almost everyone, Ali lost in his prime too

When Ali was in his prime he was denied the right to fight for 3 years, we never got to see Ali in his true prime. 

Tyson beat who, who did he beat that was worthy of ranking in a whose who of boxing? Where is his Fraser, his Foreman, his Liston? He doesn't even have Norton on his list. and Holmes would have toyed with him in his prime. 

Tyson beat a load of bums, His pro debut was against a middleweight. Biggest myth in boxing. 

[Massive Attack]

Prime Tyson is a myth for Fanboys only. Tyson was a bully, Holyfield was one of the hardest men to ever put on a pair of gloves. 

Leonard beats any version of Hagler, Christ Leonard had fought once in 5 years and Hagler hadn't lost in 11 years, if anyone wasn't in their prime its Leonard.

Holmes destroys Tyson in his prime if you want a proper example. 

Agreed. Tyson was good for a spell but overrated overall up against the very best. 

[Mr Anon]

Prime Tyson is a myth for Fanboys only. Tyson was a bully, Holyfield was one of the hardest men to ever put on a pair of gloves. 

Leonard beats any version of Hagler, Christ Leonard had fought once in 5 years and Hagler hadn't lost in 11 years, if anyone wasn't in their prime its Leonard.

Holmes destroys Tyson in his prime if you want a proper example. 

incredibly unfair on Tyson IMO, he was technically great too, especially defensively, he destroyed almost everyone, Ali lost in his prime too