Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[Eerie Descent]

"It is 100% to do with him fucking off and going missing, regardless of what you believe. As for that Chelsea game, do you not remember the sublime finish for the disallowed goal that shouldn't have been disallowed? Or you just going to focus on the apparent sitter? Honestly, for a 'Hack' that gets paid for the pleasure, your football knowledge is proper poor"

[southbankbornnbred]

"Because, as we know, Moyes values the hard yards and work-rate that both give him. Again, rightly or wrongly. I'm not especially a fan of Moyes at all - but we all know he has very specific requirements for players in certain positions. I'm not sure Cornet yet meets his ""wide man"" requirements in the way Ings can't do the lone striker's job. He bought both of them, so has to take some responsibility for that. Moyes' rigidity is a problem, however well he has done for us. It forces us to play mostly one way."

[Lee Trundle]

"Should means Ings won't play for us again, also?"

[Side of Ham]

"If that's the case I'd question why he rates Benny & Fornals ahead of him""¶""¶"

[southbankbornnbred]

"""Despite missing a sitter..."" There you go. That's probably why Moyes doesn't rate him - more than any of the shenanigans with his rehab. When he's had chances, he has made some poor on-pitch decisions and missed the few opportunities that have come his way. I remember that miss - it was shocking. He seems to lack composure in key moments. I hope he can overcome that (you could argue that playing games is the best way to overcome it). But that's more likely to be the reason Moyes doesn't trust him. I don't believe the babble about his rehab one year ago. I just think Moyes doesn't rate him that highly - rightly or wrongly."

[Ron Eff]

"I remember Cornet coming on vs Chelsea away last season and despite missing a sitter, I thought he looked very lively and was going to be a good option. Moyes refusal to use him is baffling, especially as he has played left wing, centre forward, left wing back, right wing at various stages of his career. He surely has to be worth a try with Kudus out. Maybe even up front with Bowen moved back to right wing. He can't be any worse than the alternatives."

[Eerie Descent]

"No one is seeing him as a great solution, people are just desperate for us to inject some pace into what is easily the slowest team in the league, especially now Kudus is off for a bit. We are a fucking disgusting team to watch, slow and ponderous, especially without Paqueta & Kudus. Cornet is easily the quickest option we have, and going by his past, a better finisher than Benny or Fornals. However, as I said, there's a reason he isn't being played, and it's not for the reasons you are stating"

[southbankbornnbred]

"ED - where do I say, anywhere, that I haven't seen him enough to have any sort of view? Of course I have a view of him - I've just expressed it. I just haven't seen a lot of him. None of us have. You do love interpreting words which have defined meanings, as being something you've completely made up."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Cornet doesn't play in the same position as Soucek. So I guess people mean bringing Paqueta more permanently into ACM/CM areas and trying Cornet out wide in the absence of Kudus etc? Maybe that would work. But, clearly, Moyes doesn't fancy him or you'd think he'd try Cornet there quickly. As I say, I haven't seen a huge amount of Cornet. But I'm not one of our fans thinking he's some great solution for us. As always, would love nothing more than to be proved wrong - he's West Ham and I just want all of our players to do well. Even Danny Ings. Who has been utter dross."

[Eerie Descent]

"You haven't seen him enough to have a view, but you've seen him enough to have a view? Very confusing. He's not been played by Moyes because he fucked off to France for rehab, it's not exactly a secret. He would clearly, to anyone with half a brain, be a better option on the left wing than Fornals. You could say Moyes is justified due to what happened, but he's clearly cutting his nose off to spite his face."

[southbankbornnbred]

"He's made around 15 appearances, I think, albeit many of them as sub. But I've been at some of the games where he's played chunks of matches (as have many on here, I'm sure) and he's failed to impress almost every time. He's a bit of a headless chicken, from what we've seen so far. Plays quite instinctively, clearly, and Moyes is less keen on that. Also lacked a bit of composure on the few occasions he was given chances, as some glaring misses show. Can't say I've seen a lot of him - and hope he does well if he does play for us. But I'd be surprised if, all round, he's better than any of our more regular 'wide' players. They loved him at Burnley, I know. But, let's be blunt, Burnley are generally happy to be in the Premier League and we are trying to go up a gear from that. Maybe his standard is cult hero at a lower PL club? There are plenty of them."

[Russ of the BML]

"southbankbornnbred 4:51 Mon Jan 8 I'm not so sure mate. I think it does make his job harder. As you rightly say ""Whatever people think of Moyes, he genuinely believes in his way of doing things and, yes, has a system he sticks to rigidly"". And, as we all know, Moyes does stick to it rigidly almost to an obsessive level. So if Cornet comes in and does the business, with Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen undroppable and Alvarez and JWP Rice's replacements... It leads to only one thing. Dropping Soucek. Who Moyes is obsessed with due his approach being about the sum of its parts. Why would Moyes upset his beliefs and system that he see's as Soucek being the lynch-pin of, so that Cornet plays? I say a successful and playing well Cornet causes Moyes more negative issue than positive. Cornet not being involved gives him a get out of jail card."

[Sir Alf]

"I think the issue Southbank is also that we haven't seen him at all. 120 mins in all competitions and similar last season after returning from injury. Not sure he even played more than 3 or 4 games when he first arrived. Hard to say he's not up to it. You may be right but in the league he's not played at all. He must be absolute rubbish in training but I would wager he could do a better job than Fornals and Benny wide left ( lowering the bar I know ) . And for Sold's sake, he could do a better job than Soucek in every aspect of the game except heading ;-)"

[claypole]

Before his injury Cornet was starting to get a sniff around the 1st team after coming through Moyes'adjustment period for new players. But from memory wasn't Cornet unhappy with the rehab and he disappeared back to France for a time? I expect that is why he is on the shit list.

[southbankbornnbred]

"Got to be honest, from what I've seen of Cornet since he joined, he isn't anything like the sort of player we thought we were signing. His injuries have played a large part in that, sure. But some of his decision-making is shocking, and looks like a third of the player we thought we'd nabbed from Burnley. Some of his early misses, before the injuries etc, were mind-blowingly bad. I'm not one for instinctively defending Moyes. But I can see why the manager has not trusted Cornet with much since he joined. Nobody can say they've seen enough in him to merit getting picked in a wide attacking position ahead of the likes of Bowen, Paqueta (not quite sure why he's often played out wide, but there you go), Kudus or even Benrahma."

[Sir Alf]

"Sold you're perhaps not getting it. Soucek I don't rate him. Can't pass, run or play football. Btw, did I mention that he gets picked to start every game and for every minute ? Oh and""¶. :-)"

[southbankbornnbred]

"In all fairness to Moyes, I highly doubt he's ""scared"" that any player will succeed. You'd have to be ""off your tits"" level of mental to be worried about that as a manager. It's more the case that he simply thinks players like Cornet are not his best option, or doesn't know how to use such players. Which makes you wonder why he bought them in the first place. Whatever people think of Moyes, he genuinely believes in his way of doing things and, yes, has a system he sticks to rigidly. That doesn't make him scared of players succeeding, because that makes his job a shitload easier. He wants players to succeed - but in his system, because he doesn't know anything else."

[southbankbornnbred]

"I wouldn't over-interpret on Soucek and Coufal. They are Moyes men - especially Soucek. You only have to remember his obsession with Mario Fellaini at Everton, and Man Utd, to understand his obsession with having a non-passing big lump running through treacle in central midfield. It makes Moyes feel like it's 2008 all over again."

[Northern Sold]

"Yeah Sir Alf... I think we get it,,, you dont rate Soucek... we get it... WE GET IT.... WE FUCKING GET IT YOU FUCKING PARROTING OLD cսnt AS YOU FUCKING MENTION IT IN EVERY FUCKING POST YOU INFLICT ON US... * breathes *"

[Sir Alf]

Cornet is technically good or was at Lyon allegedly. Did well at Burnley but injury has been his issue. But it would mean Moyes having to upset Soucek if Cornet started to perform It's nothing to do with Kretinsky I hope? Surely he would t have a conscious or unconscious bias to playing the Czech lads to act as a nod to Kretinsky and job protection ? I know it's conspiracy stuff but nothing surprises me at West Ham. Soucek and Coufal are great lads and valuable squad men but until we get better as first 11 choices we will struggle to progress. They are 2 of the most problematic positions / players. There are other positions of course but those two are high on the list

[Russ of the BML]

Sir Alf 4:02 Mon Jan 8 Moyes disgraceful management of Cornet could be for that exact reason. Scared Cornet will light up the left side and become undroppable. That leaves Moyes with the headache you describe. So he plays out best central midfielder wide to keep Cornet out.

[Sir Alf]

"Constant selection of Soucek, every game for every minute and playing players out of position to accommodate him is in legal terms the first accusation to be thrown at Moyes. It's a fit because all of Moyes recruitment, before Steidten started to apply thinking , was aimed at supporting his Moyesball, low block, stay deep, keep in shape and score on the counter and via set pieces mind. It served its purpose but became the handicap we now see in the squad. We will never press effectively and will struggle with possession against teams set up to play a possession / pressing game. Bristol were better at it and playing through the lines and overloading the middle. And they are hardly famed as the masters of this way of playing. Moyesball has its place and his tactics provide organisation and solidity that should avoid struggles with relegation over a season but they now limit our improvement or progression. No one, as far as I'm aware, has been able to articulate a justification for Soucek appearing every game, every minute. He got a few goals in a purple patch and was valuable in or smash and grab wins over Arsenal and Spurs etc but his presence is significant, a major factor hind our ability to press, get the ball back and of course keep it. He can't run fast, he struggles to control the ball and his passing must be amongst the lowest performers in the league. He touches less than 20 times most games and sometime less than 10 times. Until he is no longer on every starting 11 we are limited. I pray if we get one player in it will be for that wide left birth and mean Soucek dropped as a starter in some games and Paqueta starting in his correct position"

[Russ of the BML]

Willtell 11:53 Mon Jan 8 A very good post. You raise several issues with Moyes reign but sadly I feel you are only scratching the surface.

[Willtell]

"We are now into Moyes 5th year yet 2 of our 3 most valuable attackers are still being shifted around to suit less able players. Paqueta gets pushed over to LW yet is at his best in central AM positions. Bowen, our leading scorer, is following the well trodden path of Moyes best wingers being shifted to striker. at least Kudus is where he should be on RW but what a surprise it must have been to see him leave for AFCON? When will Moyes realise that Fornals is not a left winger? Moyes has been putting him there for more than 2 seasons. The only thing he does well is shut attacking players down. Rather like Soucek but why does Moyes still keep trying to shoehorn him into AM? Both of them should only ever be squad players by evidence on show every week by now surely? Why did Moyes buy Cornet - a left wing striker - and not play him except when absolutely necessary? The only 2 recent 15-20mins outings Cornet has had he looks a better option than Fornals or Benrahma have for years. What did Cornet do wrong to be ostracised from the team like Downs, Vlassic, Kral, Scamacca and others before him? Once again Moyes has wasted our transfer budget as we look to sell yet more Moyes shunned players at unbelievable losses that are more than some PL sides transfer budgets. How does Moyes keep deciding we don't need a striker when the only one we have has been injured for months and was out of form anyway. Why has Moyes been unable to fit Haller, Scamacca and Ings into our sides? Why did he buy Ings anyway? Why does our PL2 youth team play 3-4-3 and the first team 4-5-1? Because we won't be playing the youth anyway? Or why was Moyes keen to bring Mubama into the squad last year apart from him refusing to renew his contract? His willingness to run and chase? I hope that Divin's career goes well but he was outclassed yesterday by Championship defenders. He obviously isn't ready yet but I am not writing him off as he may well be ready next season and needs a loan period. Was it that like Soucek and Fornals, Mubama is prepared to chase the ball regardless of his ability to play football at PL level? I fear so. I recall Moyes saying nothing about Divin's skill or ability but his willingness to defend from the front. Check it out for yourselves. Yesterday was another poor result brought about by 4 years of poor management in my opinion. Moyes lacks management skills in several areas which makes him touchy to any hint of his inadequacies. His tactics did work well for him as all those 1000 games of survival football show. Sixth place and 3 seasons of European football though are his limit and the cracks in his management ability are starting to show visibly to all who know the signs of a manager out of his comfort zone. If our boardroom are not aware or are indifferent to the errors in management, then Moyes will get his contract renewed. I can't believe that some of the top businessmen on our board these days haven't already lined up Moyes replacement..."

[Russ of the BML]

Sorry - Last post was in response to: Coffee 7:07 Mon Jan 8