Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[southbankbornnbred]

That's what Fiorentina's coach was getting at when he talked about our 1970s tactics - even though his interview was just full of sour grapes.

[southbankbornnbred]

"It's why it took Moyes a painful amount of time last season to figure out that he had to play Paqueta in a deeper position in midfield, in order to negate the high-press deployed by every side against us. It went against every instinct Moyes has as a coach. He wanted to keep sitting Soucek deep alongside Rice - and it invited the problem that we couldn't pass out from the back and we'd get trapped in our final third - giving the ball away cheaply. Palace beat us at a canter when even Vieira realised Soucek can't pass. And he lasted five minutes at Palace. Moyes finally woke up to the problem - but we'd lost a ridiculous amount of games before he accepted the reality. Even now, he's crow-barring Soucek and his hard-running into the side by playing him alongside, or just ahead of, Rice and Paqueta. But that reinforces our low block - and more pressure. It's painful to watch us try to get out of our own defensive third, unless we just whomp it long and ask Antonio or Bowen to chase into the channels."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Paqueta is the one primarily technical player Moyes allows himself. That's his model. Remember at Everton, when pretty much every player was a tough, functional hard-runner and his midfield was full of people like Leon Osman, Lee Carsley and Thomas Gravesen? Then he had the one player who offered something different and carried the ball through midfield - which was often Steven Pienaar. It was sort of similar when Allardyce had Okocha at Bolton. The problem is, these managers can't, or don't seem to want to, coach sides that require one player with excellent technique to pass to another player with excellent technique. They don't ignore it entirely, but they pay lip service to technical quality - and favour those that show up on the DATA as hard-yakkas."

[El Scorchio]

"It's horrible and embarrassing that we are openly eschewing quality in favour of playing like Stoke. Would be acceptable if we had no money or had just come up like Luton, but given our finance and status, it's a pathetic regression to primitive and uncultured football. I can't imagine Paqueta putting up with much of it as he watches the two other best footballers at the club walk out the door likely in favour of cloggers."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Me too, Scorch, but the fact is Moyes doesn't rate him for his peculiar system. He defaulted back to Antonio even before Scama's injury. Square peg in a round hole. Like Haller was. I like Scamacca - he'll thrive playing as part of a duo, or in a three-man forward line where his midfield is based on possession and deep players breaking beyond him/the defensive line. But little about that says ""Moyes"". And Ings fits Moyes' system even less than Scamacca. He just isn't mobile enough to do the yards Antonio does."

[El Scorchio]

It makes me genuinely sad that we seem to be letting a player of Scamacca's obvious quality walk out the door because we are sticking with a manager who doesn't know how to use him. I just hope it's a season long loan and he comes back to a new dawn at the club.

[Meerkat]

"It's academic now , but funny how things turn out , Moyes publicly railed against the players after the second half collapse in the final game of the previous season at Brighton. That result had us out of Europa and into the Conference which can be argued saved Moyes bacon as I doubt last season's form would have got us very far in the Europa league ."

[Side of Ham]

"Tbh southbank, I don't care as it's Moyesball and it's shit......you'd be better off waiting to compare what we've let go to what we've got in......"

[southbankbornnbred]

"With that in mind, genuine questions, who constitutes a Moyesball-type player we could/should target next season. Forwards like Scamacca - all about subtle, economy of movement, ball to feet etc and having another forward playing close to/off him - look like they will not be tolerated. Moyes will want a couple of strikers modelled more on Antonio: somebody who will run the channels, press high and hard for 90 minutes and be prepared to perform defensive roles etc. Antonio is 34 next season. Moyes needs to find an upgrade on him, sharpish. Likewise, we need full-backs who can cope with the pace of the Premier League. Coufal and Cresswell were left stranded far too often last season. We also need the replacement for Rice if/when he goes. A lot to do over the summer. What are the chances our board get this right?"

[southbankbornnbred]

"Lanzini going was always on the cards, but it's another indication that Moyes is going full Moyesball next season. So, too, are the journo rumours (however accurate/inaccurate) that Scamacca has agreed a deal with Roma and Ings might be moved on after just six months. Neither forward fitted Moyes' system at all. Whether we like it or not, Moyes looks set to consolidate counter-attacking, defensive Moyesball as a tactic/approach next season. His experiment with trying to sign and coach players unfamiliar to his rudimentary system has failed - so it looks like we'll be offloading players (some of them good players, like Scamacca) who do not play the way he wants. On one level, that makes sense: managers/clubs should sign players who fit the manager's style because they're more likely to thrive in that role. But we can definitely kiss goodbye to the idea of a more fluent, possession-based football. Moyes defaulted to his robust, low-block system where he's comfortable not having the ball - and with Antonio ""feeding off scraps"" upfront. Sticking with Moyes has many ramifications. One of which is that, whether we like it or not, we ought to be spending on players who fit his system - or we'll struggle again in the Premier League next season. I fins myself torn on this. I'd rather we had moved on from Moyes. But he delivered a trophy - however highly people rate it - and will now stay. Signing players who can't play his way was a recipe for disaster last season. So we probably have to rethink what constitutes a West Ham signing while he remains in charge."

[,]

Teams have played dire football in the past but won things we however play unentertaining football and lost more than half our league games. We will be vulnerable next season the more so without Rice.

[swindon hammer]

"Burnsy, nope not me and if I ever did mention it, it would have been in response to someone saying the board never spend money."

[Random]

I'm 100% with Yarmouth on this. I can't wait for him to go. I pay to watch us play football not other teams. I'm Not looking forward to the dross we play. We played one reasonable team in the competition and scraped past them. We are the equivalent of Steve Davis in the football world. Boring and try to bewilder opponents.

[Mr. Burns]

"""It wouldn't be a West Ham thread without Eerie mentioning we spent 200 million last season""ù Wasn't it you that used to bang on about how much Pellegrini spent all the time swindon?"

[swindon hammer]

You should start another thread about it Yarmouth.

[David L]

"Exactly right and to the point, Yarmouth."

[Yarmouth]

"It amazes me that some posters on here have been completely brainwashed by a competition where we've played pub sides until the final, then scraped by, and then allowed that win & the accompanying celebrations to make them totally overlook the utter crap that Moyes served up all season in the league. The Moyesiah? For crying out fucking loud get real. Do they genuinely want to watch the dull, shite, ultra defensive Moyes tactics for another fucking season, this time without Rice as the 3rd central defender? Do you really want to watch that shite or would you prefer to be entertained with attacking, possession based football instead that allows players like Paqueta to flourish? How the fuck can any West Ham fan enjoy watching 9 players huddled around our own penalty area, shit scared of the opposition, and a mindless battering ram up front 'feeding on scraps'. How?"

[Eerie Descent]

You could buy the town of Swindon for that.

[ironsofcanada]

According to the more informed sources we spent 194 million Euros including Ings. Almost 200 mill. Euros. Again including the winter window. Maybe therein lies the confusion. Claret and Hugh has thrown out the 200 mill GBP number a few times. It does make the ownership look slightly better but not sure why we would take what he says at face value.

[swindon hammer]

It wouldn't be a West Ham thread without Eerie mentioning we spent 200 million last season. 200 million did you say?

[Eerie Descent]

"Didn't we sign anyone after 31st May 2022, then? But I heed your point, what an absolute pittance. God forbid being the 3rd highest transfer spenders on the planet and expecting your team to at least attemp to win the first home game of the season. Silly me."

[Westside]

"ED 3.30, first time I've seen that £200M figure. How is that arrived at? In the August 2022 transfer window, the total value of players signed (including agents fees) was £155 million. This is the total, some of which will be paid on the drip, over more than one year. A further £18 million COULD be payable depending on events (e.g. winning trophies, number of international appearances, club appearances, etc.) Arrived at from note 31, of the 31 May 2022 accounts."

[,]

"ED 3.30, first time I've seen that £200M figure. How is that arrived at?"

[fraser]

Eerie - I said the same in the fixtures thread.. Chelsea came to us on a horrible run and played a team of strangers againsr us some of whom had never played in the PL and we allowed them the freedom of the pitch. So be interesting how we approach them this time.

[goose]

Mark Warburton is toast. lets the puns begin..........