West Ham United vs Manchester City (EPL) | Match Thread

[stubbo-admin]

Odds
West Ham: 13/2
Draw: 23/5
Man City: 2/5

Match tactical preview:


 

[Helmut Shown]

Did anybody see the amount of times our forwards were body checked when they went to crowd their goalkeeper? It seems to be an ingrained tactic of Man City as I have seen this happen on at least four of their last visits. The refs are too frightened to call them out for it.

[scott_d]

Agree - this is the champions we were playing and some are saying the best team in the World.

We took the game to them in the first 5 minutes but seemed like normal service resumed when Haaland got their first but we still managed to go in level at half time with a break from Bowen.

Second half I thought we outplayed them at times and we looked like we could definitely get something from the game.  

The substitutions were positive, the attitude was positive and we almost drew level again through Kudus.

I came away from the game feeling like we could have got something from Villa if we'd played that well and that we'll get something more often than not as the players play more games together.

It's a good sign for me, considering Fullkrug is still finding his feet, Todibo should come into that first team at some point too and we've still got Solar to come.

Also, I know we conceded 3 goals, but I thought our defence held up well considering.  OK there were a couple of mistakes in there too and unfortunately City are not a team you can do that too.

[kylay]

I thought there was more positive to take than negative from this one. We took our shots and on a different day could have come away with a point. We're looking better than I thought we would at this point, so that's encouraging. when the serial cheaters are playing like that, there will be few teams that can give them a game. 

Fulham in two weeks should be a cracking game. I really wish we could abolish the September window. I'd argue it's the most disruptive of them all 

[Nutsin]

Second half we were much better which shows the adjustments made by J Lo had an effect. Not our worse performance but City played well and Haaland was clinical.

killman is showing that he was worth every penny. Although I want to see more of Todibo and less Stavros.

I thought Alvarez played a good game and made a difference and I thought Rodriguez appears to be settling in to the side well.

Summerville is going to become a fan favorite too, I like his game.

Bissaka showing his quality again, he had himself a good game I thought.

nice to see Kudus find his stride yesterday, he was our best player, much better.

some positives to be taken from the game, we are a work in progress but we definitely have the quality to be amongst it at the end of the season. 

need more depth at center half and center forward still seems to be where we need to address most. 
Antonio's first touch is as poor as ever, Fulkrug needs more playing time.

onwards and upwards!

[Sir Alf]

---

yes Gilmore but was making the point ( not very well ) that without one its sometimes a struggle to make possession dominance count. Also notice the gap we still need to make up in squad strength and the chalkenge to qualify for Europe which unfortunately is critical to the continued squad improvement

[Any Old Iron]

Frankly I’m sick of the sight of Manchester Cheaty. As per usual I had the game on a stream but after 15 minutes I gave up watching. It’s always the same with this lot. Season after season they give us the run around. I wouldn’t mind if it was through their own efforts, but it sticks in the craw knowing that they’ve cheated their way to success with unearned £billions, just as Chelsea did. 
if the FA/Premier League don’t throw the book at them when they’ve got 115 charges to clobber them with then I might just turn my back on the PL

[happygilmore]

SIR Alf
Re: West Ham United vs Manchester City (EPL) | Match Thread#148Post 01 Sep 2024 14:24Just watching the Barcodes beating a dominant Spurs side. Spurs lack a central striker and finisher too now

you do realise they signed Solanke ?

[Sir Alf]

Just watching the Barcodes beating a dominant Spurs side. Spurs lack a central striker and finisher too now Son is imo on the wane but I hate to admit their squad is much stronger than ours.  Hurts to say it but its the truth. 

In other words, we are still several windows away from building the depth and quality needed to get newr the top 4 imho.  We will also need a very strong season to even get a conference place.  Us, Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spuds, Brighton in addition to Citeh, Arsenal, Mancs, Liverpool all fighting for 7 places and that discounts the emergence of perhaps another contender which often happens.

 

[only1billybonds]

Can't comment on the game as I didn't see it but what I will say is that it's becoming clear that the only way we'll beat this city side is play them when they are having a rare off day. 

Agree with Sven, as good as they, are they can be quite dull to watch at times  they are almost robotic in their precision. Only comfort in this is that its the same for most of the sides they play against.

[Fauxstralian]

City have some incredible players & a brilliant manager but I find a lot of their football quite dull
They are so precise with their passing & movement they will often spend long periods rotating the ball & just tiring & probing the other team
Very hard to play against but prefer a more end to end game where both teams are attacking 
The only way to beat them is to disrupt them but easier said than done

Worrying for the likes of Arsenal is that they have been able to sit out players like Walker, Stones, Rodri & Foden after the Euros so that they can build into the season.

[BRANDED]

The thing with City is they always seem in control and even if you do manage to score they up their game a bit and score again. If we had scored three Haaland would have scored five. The only way to beat them is draw.

[Sir Alf]

Stubbo, it was Alvarez dropping deeper with Kilman and Mavro just after half time. Not a strict or static 5 but as City brought it forward after half time. Allowed Wan Bissaka and Emerson to get further forward and if u watch it again ( match replay ) u will see Grealish and Doku not having as mych space and time.  Or at least thats what I saw ?  

[stubbo-admin]

@SirAlf

Must admit I didn't see us playing as a back 5 at any stage yesterday.

First half Wan Bissaka had clearly been instructed to play narrow (a Lopetegui hallmark tactic) and it was causing us problems, but in the second half he moved wider to get tighter to Grealish.

How did you see us configured as a back 5?
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[Sir Alf]

Agree Zico.  

We tried to chase the game later on in the second half by reverting to a back 4 after Emerson went off. We were one goal down so had no choice but try something. Unfortunately, Soucek and Coufal, made us weaker defensively especially with the back 5 via Alvarez no longer in operation, and hence we looked like conceding every City attack and did thru a simple counter attack. 

As Loppy said, teams like us need a perfect game to get anything and  most things going our way.  The latter did happen as City IMO missed 3 or 4 gilt edged chances. But from start of the 2nd half with the back 5 we “stopped the bleedin” as they say and the game was even for 20-30 mins.  Thats when we had the Kudus chance. The perfection was needed and it had to be taken.  That moment passed and inevitably we lost.  

To get nearer to City we will need an even stronger bench longer term and better subs than Soucek and Coufal coming on. Im hopeful we can see Earthy, Potts, Orford or other youth developments stepping up eventually to improve our bench but most of all we need to improve central forward options.  Fullkrug, Antonio and Ings?  These 3 arent collectively good enough. We need very good upgrades to the latter 2.

Got to hope Todibo lives up to expectations too. Thought Mavropanas was a tad better than Kilman on the day but as a combo they lack some agility against the very best like City and allowed too much space for Haarland and City forwards at times. And not quite quick enough to recover when getting the wrong side.  That said, they are a lot better than we had and we can at least now avoid having to almost retreat to our own goal line in a low block.

We are a better squad no doubt, improvements were visible simply by benching the Czechs and having Alvarez / Rodruiguez.  But further improvement needed.  Todibo might help in central defence, Summerville given more minutes, Kudus central or wide right will improve us in attack and possibly Bowen central as a result until we get a real, quality CF.  The other big issue was Paqueta and having an alternative now in Soler ( assuming he is the playmaker he was at Valencia ) yet snother way we can improve things during games or in selections.  

In summary, I could see marginal improvement but also feel we have several more potential ways to improve further in terms of options still to use or integrate. And as time goes on, the coaching and team as a whole becomes better drilled too. We will know by xmas just how much of this  potential improvement can be realised / actually implemented
 

[Fauxstralian]

To be honest we were between a rock and a hard place.
We tucked our full backs in to defend the width of the area and stop them threading balls through and they used the width by keeping B Silva & Doku on the touchline 
The only time I have seen them struggle against teams like Liverpool is when they were pressed but that’s very hard to do as they usually pass round you & open you up. 
Depressing but in recent games they have just passed around us at a stroll & we haven’t laid a glove on them.
At least in the second half we gave them a game.
If Kudus’s shot had hit the underside of the bar & gone in then who knows

[Gary Strodders shank]

Let's be honest it was embarrassing at times in the first half with the amount of possession they had playing through us at will at  times with little triangles and then a ball round the corner.
They used the width of the pitch and stretched us with their movement and everything into feet with technically superb players.
I thought we rallied well however and looked dangerous when we broke and could of equalised with the right final ball but technically not quite good enough to deliver that on the day.
The problem is when you also look at the two benches and see Gundogon Rodri Stones and Walker to name but a few, you realise we are a level short of the elite one they clearly are in.
We are of course playing for the places and I've seen enough to think we could be competitive in challenging for a europa spot.

 

[zico]

Thought we started really well and could have scored but then sat back a bit and gave them far too much space and respect.  Problem with City is they can hurt you anywhere, attacking space behind or space on the edge of the area, to the extent we were probably lucky to be still in it at half time.  Second half at least we gave it a go and had chances which is what we all wanted to see.  Had to hook Emerson but we looked far weaker when Coufal and Soucek came on.  If you had swapped strikers with Antonio playing for City and Haaland playing for us you could argue we would have won the game.  On his day Haaland is a step above World Class.  The one disappointment as others have said is we could have done with a pacy striker, but have needed that for a few years.  So disappointed we lost but the white flag didn't go up like it has in previous years. 

[Fauxstralian]

Hard to judge completely against Man City & after 4 competitive games in league & Cup but ….. not pushing the boat out for Duran is currently looking a major blunder despite how over priced he was.
Fullkrug not looking suitable at all so far & Antonio has been cooked for 2 years.
Think we will end up with Bowen central at some point soon to allow Kudus to play on the right & bring Summerville & Soler in

[GBHammer63]

I’ve found that it’s best if I let things settle down before spouting off, yep, disappointing not to come away with something but after the Allardyce and 2 Moyes stints, that performance was more than a couple of steps in the right direction. We’ve got a squad with 8 or 9 new signings and it’s not going to fully click straight away. We had the best team in the world worried on a few occasions, might have been luck, but once we settled we were looking so much better than the shit we’ve gotten used to.
Nice to see our manager fully engaged in the game, not sulking, scowling or gobbling his gum out slumped in a chair.

[Sydney_Iron]

Most seem almost optimistic and pleased with the way we played? Fuck me im not, we lost FFS, i don't care who or how good Man City are................we LOST this game and shouldn't of.

[Sir Alf]

Could do with a striker with power and pace. We all knew that but the one area we came up short in this last window.

Really hope this Soler fella is decent because Paqueta looks a liability at times getting dispossed, wanting too much time and space and giving the ball back with wasteful passing.  

Left back is the other area for improvement longer term.

I heard Antony Martial is available on a free?  Suspect his attitude is his big problem. He’s only 28 but mardy frenchman in the dressing room ?  Still has some pace but its clutching at straws I guess?

[twoleftfeet]

Less than 30% possession, real progress.

You’re a dick.

32% possession. So he’s also wrong.

 

[lowlife]

Leroys - I was there too, agree with what you say about Antonio. There were a few moments in the first half where he didn’t close down and then couldn’t be arsed to get back into position. Unacceptable when playing against top opposition.

Also saw Paqueta getting frustrated with Soucek when he didn’t read the through ball that he had just played.

At least JL seems to have pushed Coufal and Soucek out as regular starters now. I can’t see Soucek getting in again any time soon either, now that we have Soler.

[Fauxstralian]

Man City have better players & a better team & on their way to their 5th title in a row
They just don’t let you have the ball & don’t give it back
Unlike under Moyes we tried to play & caused them some problems in the second half. There was definite relief from them when the 3rd goal went in.
Haaland is just a machine. We tried to defend the width of the box so they put the ball wide. When we had gaps in the middle one pass to him & it ended up in the net.
If Pep plays him in all 38 games he could score 50

[LeroysBoots]

Antonio was blowing out of his arse after 15 mins

I was at the game and watched him, he offers sweet fuck all, he's lazy, slow, makes half hearted attempts to do anything

What on earth dies the coach see in him ?

Major fuck up not getting a pacy striker