Provisional England Euros squad of 30

[Fauxstralian]

To be announced at 2pm … leaking like West Ham’s defence. Bowen in the 30 Reduced to the tournament 26 on June 7

[Rossal]

"Bellingham i think can be a box to box and have Rice playing that more traditional holding role. In the group games there shouldn't be much need to have 2 CDM's, especially if Trippier is playing LB who will probably hold back alot more. I don't think Rice's role at Arsenal has changed that much to when he was with us, its just he is playing much higher up the pitch and needing to defend less as they dominate the ball more and Moyes plays so deep."

[Nagel]

"Rossal 6:37 Wed May 22 I'm inclined to agree about Foden LW, Saka RW and Palmer in the 10, but Saka's actually played dozens of games at LW, mostly early in his career, including his first few caps for England, and he might be able to provide that width. Personally I can't remember what he was like on the left though. The other issue with this though is that both Bellingham and Rice have been getting used to playing a more advanced role than they used to, and I'm not sure if Southgate will want them as the 2 CMs behind 4 attackers and might prefer another more defensive minded player in there behind Bellingham as the no 10."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Rossal - yeah, I think Gordon would be the one I’d have sacrificed for Rashford’s experience and goals. Gordon’s a good player. But they all are. And I’d want a few natural goalscorers, because they get you out of trouble even if they’re playing badly. Rashford has done that for England. Definitely think Bowen could be important for the same reason. If you’re 1-0 down and need a goal to keep you in a tournament, I’d turn to Jarrod before Gordon and some of the others who instinctively don’t spend much time in the box."

[Rossal]

"Eerie Descent 6:33 Wed May 22 Yeah its a tricky one, I think it will be a case of playing your best team and not your best players. With those players I'd put Foden LW, Saka RW and Palmer in the 10. But you'd almost say to Palmer and Foden play a free role. Those 5 supplying Kane is scary for anyone though agreed. I think the main issue we have is left back.....if we play Foden or Palmer out there they will likely drift inside. TO do that you would really need a LB who can attack and provide natural suuport.....we don't have that assuming Shaw won't make it. Therefore think we could do with an out and out winger out on the left to provide width and balance. Thats where Gordon or Grealish come into it for me. Foden CAM, Saka right and bring on Palmer and the likes of Bowen to give us some real ammo last 15/20 mins."

[Rossal]

"southbankbornnbred 6:27 Wed May 22 I don't really think thats much of a valid point, Foden and Bellingham don't have many goals for England but they are obviously good enough to play in the big games. Palmer also has what a couple of caps? But he is pushing for a start and rightly so. If they can do it in the prem, then they are probably good enough to play at this tournament. Don't forget the likes of Gordon, Mainoo and Brathwaite etc are experience with England at tournaments in the younger age groups"

[Eerie Descent]

"Rossal, I'd like to see all of them in, but would be a bit hard, unless you played Saka on the left? --------------- Rice -------- Bellingham --------- Palmer ------------ Foden --------------- Saka Might lack a bit of pace all round, but that is frightening talent on the pitch."

[Nutsin]

"The England squad looks like they have a real shot this time around. Walker, Rice, Bellingham and Kane are all up there with the best. First four names on the team sheet. They have their positions locked. Foden, Gordon, Saka, Palmer, Bowen would start for any other team in the tournament. Hard to choose out of that lot. I’d have Palmer play attacking midfield and Foden to start on the left and Saka on the right and look to bring in Gordon on the left and Bowen on the right at around the 60 minute mark, with their speed on the wing we’d be a real threat. Callagher as cover for Bellingham and Toney as cover for Kane. There’s some real depth and quality in that team, let’s hope we live up to our potential, we have a real shot. Stones and Maguire at the back seems to be a bit of a weakness but with our fire power we should have enough goals in us to still win it. I will be at Killarneys Irish Pub in Huntington Beach watching the games, place is packed and banged out with ex pats having a good time… Looking forward to it, can’t wait!"

[southbankbornnbred]

"Difference between getting goals at club level (against Luton, Sheff Utd, etc) and doing it internationally in big tournaments against big sides, though. And that’s the issue: beyond Kane, who in this squad has done it for England? Some experience of those big moments is important. All the players mentioned are very good players - I don’t doubt that. Palmer etc: very good young players. But several are not yet proven at international level. Hopefully they’ll step up. They certainly have the talent. I’d have taken Rashford, though, who I think has been shredded by an over-rated manager in ten Hag."

[southbankbornnbred]

"Pickford strikes you as a player who “could lose his head”? He’s had 60 caps over six years and it hasn’t happened yet. Are you just waiting for one big mistake so you can say “told you so”? Because that’s almost certain to happen anyway - with any keeper. It did with Shilton, who had over 100 caps! For those who doubt Pickford’s mentality, re-watch the penalty shootout against Italy. Although we lost it (some poor penalties), there’s a moment where - to keep England in it - he HAS to save a pen or they’re out. He visually tells himself he’s going to do it, focuses, stares down the kicker, and makes an excellent save. They all make mistakes eventually. It’s real football - flesh and bone - not computer-based malarkey."

[Rossal]

"And on Rashford he can't have many complaints, but then I do get the argument for England he has generally done well. I guess Grealish or Foden will start on the left, which begs the question who would you want to come on from the bench if you need a goal.....Anthony Gordon or Rashford. I'd probably rather Rashford, away from Ten Haag and with a arm round him you'd hope the waistcoat wanker would get more of a tune out of him. It's not like he is the only one to have a shit season up at Old Trafford is it, the clubs fucked"

[Lee Trundle]

"us = WHU, not England."

[Rossal]

"Foden Kane Bellingham Saka Palmer Surely thats enough goals for us? Its the LB/CB and GK sitch we have to worry about. Pickford has done well at tournaments for England, but he has got a ringer in him more than most. Fucked up against Belgium not too long ago. Ramsdale is even worse. Trafford shouldn't be anywhere near it, embarassing season for him at Burnley ffs"

[Lee Trundle]

"Based on this season, I wouldn't even have Rashford starting left wing for us, and we're desperately crying out for one."

[southbankbornnbred]

"ED, Fair enough - it’s all about opinions. But when you look at the context, Rashford’s England stats are decent. He’s only started 26 games at international level. He’s been a sub 34 times. Only played 90 minutes 10 times. Yet he’s got 17 goals. Saka has started 23 times - almost as many as Rashford. He has 11 goals. Played 90 minutes 7 times. Which is a good effort, granted. I’d have him on the plane, no question. Grealish is a bit more of a concern in terms of his goals. Just three this season, and only two so far for England. But he creates, and he does draw fouls around the box. I like all of these players. But if you play one down the middle (Kane), then in my view you’ve got to have wide players contributing with goals, as well as assists. Totally agree Foden should start in the centre. He could take a lot of pressure off Kane and Southgate - he’s scored regularly as a #10. But Southgate has tended to play him wide. The manager’s instinctive conservatism hasn’t helped the situation."

[Fauxstralian]

Never been a keeper that hasn’t made a mistake Of course in the game where Green let a bobbler past him he made a couple of brilliant saves. And Capello after anointing him as number 1 dropped him after 1 mistake You want your keeper to be calm & level headed Pickford strikes me as a keeper who could lose his head. Ramsdale the same Pope was calmer but think he was unimpressive when he did play …. & now he is injured None of them are outstanding but obviously Pickford is no1 & will play Am hoping Areola gets to play but read the other day that he is still third keeper even though Lloris is finished

[Eerie Descent]

"southbankbornnbred 2:29 Wed May 22 Disagree with a lot of that. Just for a start, your Saka & Rashford comparison doesn't make sense, as Saka has a much better goals per game ratio for England, Rashford has 17 in 60 whereas Saka has 11 in 32. There is no way Rashford deserves to be on the plane, he's been diabolical this season, and it's that kind of 'tried and tested' vanity pick that has always let England down. The thing holding the team back, goalscoring wise, is the manager. If he plays Foden central, it will transform the team. He's been the Premier League's best player this season, he'll score goals for England if the manager gets it right, as will Bellingham and Saka and whoever plays on the right hand side. I also disagree about the goalkeepers; it's our weakest position other than the centre backs. Pickford could cost us at any moment. And this might be controversial, but I actually reckon Kane getting injured wouldn't be a disaster, in fact, his lack of pace has hurt us in the big games that have mattered in tournaments, where he has been a complete passenger as we've been knocked out, every single time."

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Twoleftbraincells Not sure anyone mentioned Moyes until you did... who are you talking about or have you got the wrong thread?

[southbankbornnbred]

"All goalkeepers have a ""mad moment"" in them. Just look at Rob Green - an otherwise very fine keeper - in 2010. Or Peter Shilton's crap effort to save Poland's goal in 1973. If keepers make a mistake, it generally leads to a goal. But Pickford's record for England is solid. He's had his moments for Everton, sure. But all keepers do. I've also seen Pickford have some superb games for Everton where he has kept them in it - like any good keeper."

[Fauxstralian]

For me Pickford always has a mad moment in him. Unfortunate that Nick Pope has missed the back half of the season & isnt available Ramsdale has only played v Brentford when Raya couldnt Trafford might be in contention for the next tournament

[southbankbornnbred]

"England are well off for keepers - that is not a weak position for us. Pickford is a good keeper, Ramsdale is excellent and that kid Trafford is going to be excellent, too. The bigger positional problems are at centre back (lack of depth) and left back if Shaw doesn't make it (he probably won't). No Chilwell already, so left-back is a big problem. Cress will be sniffing around at this rate!"

[southbankbornnbred]

"The biggest problem with the provisional squad, by far, is the lack of goals at international level beyond Harry Kane. There is a huge drop off from Kane's 62 goals. Once Southgate took Rashford's 17 international goals out of the equation, he left himself with very little. There are different types of attacking wide players: essentially those who drop a little deeper to pick up the ball and create (like Grealish and Saka) and those more inclined to break the defensive line (with a run, rather than dribbling) and get in on goal - like Bowen, Rashford etc. The latter group score more goals, naturally. Any decent squad would balance the two. England have Foden, who is so good he can perform both roles - but I'd prefer to see him play centrally. I'd definitely have taken Rashford (and Bowen), because he's a bigger proven goal threat than some of the others likely to be on the plane. Sure, he's been out of form recently - but that arguably has a lot to do with Man Utd's frankly over-rated manager and Poundshop Pep. England might be fucked if Kane gets an injury. They've got a wealth of attacking wide players, but some of them don't score enough - especially at international level so far. For me, this all makes Bowen important. Can play out wide or, as he's shown this season, down the middle. And always a goal threat. I like Saka, Grealish etc. They're good players, no question, but they won't score you many because their instincts are not to get into the box quickly - they first look to pick up the ball deeper. England need to get people around Kane."

[southbankbornnbred]

"The biggest problem with the provisional squad, by far, is the lack of goals at international level beyond Harry Kane. There is a huge drop off from Kane's 62 goals. Once Southgate took Rashford's 17 international goals out of the equation, he left himself with very little. There are different types of attacking wide players: essentially those who drop a little deeper to pick up the ball and create (like Grealish and Saka) and those more inclined to break the defensive line (with a run, rather than dribbling) and get in on goal - like Bowen, Rashford etc. The latter group score more goals, naturally. Any decent squad would balance the two. England have Foden, who is so good he can perform both roles - but I'd prefer to see him play centrally. I'd definitely have taken Rashford (and Bowen), because he's a bigger proven goal threat than some of the others likely to be on the plane. Sure, he's been out of form recently - but that arguably has a lot to do with Man Utd's frankly over-rated manager and Poundshop Pep. England might be fucked if Kane gets an injury. They've got a wealth of attacking wide players, but some of them don't score enough - especially at international level so far. For me, this all makes Bowen important. Can play out wide or, as he's shown this season, down the middle. And always a goal threat. I like Saka, Grealish etc. They're good players, no question, but they won't score you many because their instincts are not to get into the box quickly - they first look to pick up the ball deeper. England need to get people around Kane."

[Fauxstralian]

"Very strong in some areas with some exceptional players … Kane , Bellingham, Foden , Rice .. & should be with France as favourites Problems … keeper is a bit SKITTISH, Maguire is a potential liability & Shaw is the only recognised left back. Plus Southgate has neglected to develop an understudy for Kane if he is injured, suspended or tiring (ie Euros final). Shaw hasn’t played since February & looks ‘chunky’ at the best of times. Do the kit makers do XXXL shorts?"

[only1billybonds]

"Think overall,we are in decent shape for this. Keep the spine of the team fit, ie Stones, Rice, Bellingham and Kane fit plus Foden in the right position and we have a great chance. Biggest question for me is the managers commitment to finishing opponents of if/when we have them on the ropes. His caution has cost us dearly in the past, let's hope he's found learnt from that."

[aldgate]

I think Bowen will go because he offers directness and pace on the right as a straight swap for saka if he is having an off/ineffective day. We have some great technical players but also need that pace up front to mix things up and keep opposition defenders wary